Safest Protection

shakel

I have a pc with some very important programs and data on it, now the owner doesnt want to log onto the web for fear of any corruption of hd, he wont even take floppys off other people.

If he wants to access the net, what options does he have while keeping the original data completly safe?

New hd? dual boot? new pc?

Thanks in advance

WhiteWashMan

logging onto the net wont do any damage unless he downloads something dod***.
if hes that paranoid id suggest getting a zip drive and backing up his data and then hooking it up to whatever he wants.

shakel

i know that, he will be downloading and uploading and hes very paranoid, is it possible to isolate a disk on bootup or anything like that?

Cerberus

The only way to be fully sure is either not access the net or else not have the information on the machine that is accessing the net. So tell him get a zip drive like WWman said. Or you could get a real old cheap sh1tty computer and network it up to the other one and just use it for storing the fancy sh1t. Disconnect it physically each time he is finished with.
But really, the net isn't the best place to go for someone as paranoid as this person.

Gavin

If he is nervous. then number 1
backup all his stuff to zip as said.

install a firewall on his machine. If he sees any signs of intrusion, then disconnect.
Use a decent virus scanner on any dl files. He is perfectly saf uploading. Don't use any microsoft internet programs. Don't use IE, or outlook express. try netscape and eudora instead.

Get His firewall software to deny everything incoming.

ok ?

Gav

shakel

Backup i can manage, the firewall... hmmmm i know what it is but thats where my knowledge ends. What software do i need where can i get it? Is it easy to use?

Thanks again

Hobbes

- Buy a phyisical firewall. (like a little box). Or if you want to be cheap buy Conseal Firewall http://www.signal9.com/

- Install and keep an up to date Virus program.

- Install BlackIce (watches for hacking attempts).

- Backup everything.

- Encrypt confidential data, or keep an external drive that you can disconnect when logging on.

Look no matter the amount of protection or safeguards you put in, if the person wants in, they will get in. The best you can do is ensure you catch them in the process.

Hobbes

Another thing you can do, if you want to waste money is pay someone to try to hack the machine on a regular basis.

My Cable company do this once a week to my machine and report if they find that there is a weakness. My job does the same as well.

shakel

Well if that doesnt keep him happy, i think i know where ill tell him to go

;P

Dustaz

Originally posted by Hobbes:

- Install BlackIce (watches for hacking attempts).

Ive been keeping an eye out for Blackice for a while(too lazy to look too hard for it ), but ive never seen a url for it. Anyone know?

Hobbes

http://www.networkice.com/

However try this link below it might work...
http://www.networkice.com/Download/purchaseuo.htm

or

https://www.releasesoftware.com/_origin/cgi-bin/pd.cgi

That may get you 20% off the products price.

Gavin

Look no matter the amount of protection or safeguards you put in, if the person wants in, they will get in.

Crap. If a professional person ( not necessarily me ) locks down a machine, then no one is getting in. If you run a firewall denying everything, keep everything updated,
It is pretty much impossible for someone to get in.

yeah, if soem wants to get in they can..
that's why all banks etc, are screwed over regularly and you lose your money each week.
yea.

Gav

Hobbes

I would be very wary of using any system where the makers claimed it was 100% secure unless they offered to pay for any and all damages.

Your system is only as secure as your weakest link. The only way to make a machine 100% secure would be to encase it in cement and drop it off a boat out in international waters.

Hobbes

Originally posted by Verb:
that's why all banks etc, are screwed over regularly and you lose your money each week.

You would be very surprised if you did a bit of research.

As I said, Weakest link.

shakel

Well I dont think hes too worried about anybody getting in, hes more worried about anything gettin in. Something that might corrupt his files. Updated virus software should sort that out though??

Gavin

I would be surprised eh. Why don't you dazzle me with proof of hundreds of banks regularly getting done over. Cause i mean, the weakest link. ****in anne robinson eat ur heart out.

Gav

Hobbes

It is standard practice for Banks and large corporations not to publish sucessful hack attacks unless it has been already made public.

If you do bother to look for news stories you will find quite a few on people breaking into banks. The most noticable one I can think offhand was some Russian kid stealing millions from major banks in the US for the Russian Mafia. They didn't get the cash back but they sent the kid a free ticket to some computer show and arrested him when he landed in Britain where he was held for at least a year without being charged.

That particular one was even on TV, along with 5 others.

But your weakest link is your users, your location, your physical machine as well as your software.

Most experienced hackers (the ones that crack) will tell you there is more involved then just running a script kiddie tool and getting lucky.

I'm sure if you posted in the security forum they would be more then happy to give you pages of places hacked. Here's some I found off hand with 5 second search on Reuters.
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/1999/37/ns-10074.html http://www.detnews.com/1999/technology/9903/07/03060011.htm http://www.landfield.com/isn/mail-archive/1999/May/0036.html http://insidedenver.com/business/0914hack8.shtml http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cti514.htm (well ok that's a nuclear lab ) http://www.msnbc.com/news/457161.asp?cp1=1 http://insidedenver.com/business/0914hack8.shtml


.... I just want to add to that.

I believe AIB use the same process as BOI for thier online banking. It is horribly insecure. Previously BOI had a system where you needed a call sign/counter sign to use the online banking which was a lot more secure (client end, I have no idea about server end) but they changed it and dumbed it down because the average bank user goes "DUH" if they actually required to think.

... while typing this post the following machine just sweeped my machine with the intention of getting in... IP: 62.100.0.113
DNS: ap01-d01-113.dial.freesurf.nl




[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited 14-09-2000).]

sutty

one way to hack a bank is through the bank links or this use to be the way as far as i know.... they cant realy use fire walls on these as no other bank link would be able to get into it..it use to be that all you needed was the banklink phone#.... i'm not to sure about this....i iz no 133+ hacker you know

---

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

sutty

hobbes what fire wall do you use? will it work in 2k?

Hobbes

I used to use Conseal Firewall, but I can't seem to find my disk. It's a software firewall.

Conseal offer a "Desktop" version, which is more directed at people who aren't technically minded.

I'm using at the moment BlackICE. Unlike the firewall it only monitors incoming packets not outgoing, and I also have the latest version of Norton Anti-Virus.

One of the neighbours has a pretty cool setup. I'll ask him what firewall he has (it's a box).

Gavin

Of Your several posts above

2 were of the same incident. the only genuine bank cracking incident. The rest were warning of the danger of hacking

one even says :

Clifford A. Wilke, director of bank technology at the comptroller's office, said that although computer intrusions into bank systems are very rare, "our goal is to raise awareness ... and ensure that national banks are taking appropriate precautions."
Comptroller's office spokesman Dean DeBuck said such intrusions were virtually nonexistent, making the regulators' action an attempt to ward off problems beforehand.

As you said yourself, some guy just scanned your machine, and what do ya know ? A simple firewall package got him. Probably just some script kiddie as you say playing with his new toys.
I'm just saying that it is not always possible for some1 to get into a machine. Saying that they will always find a way in is ridiculous. Very few crackers will have the skill to write code to exploit caveats, and less again, to even find these weaknesses.

Gav

Hobbes

Verb, I just did a search and cut and paste =P

It is always possible for someone to get into your machine if thier sole intention is that.

Not every cracker uses only scripts or coding to get into a machine.

A good example was a previous contract job I had. They got a secure auditing system installed and they asked myself and one other guy to get in. It took 2 minutes to get root access.

They had the server sitting in reception and quick reboot and a disk editor boot disk allowed us to circumvent the password on the root access.

After that they realised they would have to pay for a fireproof alarmed safe in a secure room. Then we told them how to read monitors by remote and they weren't happy about it

You see this is what I'm talking about. Protecting your machine is a hell of a lot more then just installing a firewall, or a virus checker. You cannot make a machine 100% hackproof.

sutty

I bthink you'll find that when Hobbs said that a true cracker (not a 133+ 15 year old with a lot of spots and no life) will find a way in to any system. there is no system to date that can not be cracked by a pro (even the FBI and CIA get cracked a lot) so you see just because some one scaned his ports, doesn't mean they tryed to get it, also it could have been a random ip scaner used to find ftp sites....

---

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Hobbes

yea I'm on a cable modem, I get scanned about 2-3 times a day. Someone just running a ip address range sweep.

My IP addresses so far appear to be in the upper ranges which aren't so popular with script kiddies, hence the reason the low level of scanning. Low IP address ranges can get hit 20+ times a day.

Gavin

OK saying that an expert cracker can break into any system is ridiculous. Jeesus, I mean the superpowers ( well america really , ussr being gone splat ) run there nuclear systems via computer. ( i do't have in dpth knowledge of this, just what films i've seen I mean there rockets aren't regularly being fired off.

I accept that security is more than a firewall, I am well aware of that. But saying that no system is inpenetrable is foolish ( then again to say that a system is inpenetrable is also foolishness, i accept that too ). However, I think that the way systems are going these days, it is accepted that machines are crackable, however, the time constraint of that proves that they may as well be unhackable.. follow ?

I mean, public-private key encryption can be cracked, it just takes an enormous amount of time.

Gav

Hobbes

Why bother cracking the key if there's an easier way?

One time in Darndale the Fas Center there installed a armored door to stop people breaking in and bars on the windows.

A few days later some kids drove a car through the wall and robbed the place.

Dustaz

Why bother trying to hack a really secure bank mainframe when most online banks run a web interface.Thats the most unsecure pile of ****e. As hobbes said, if you have a client/server package its ok. but when your typing usernames and passwords into a webpage your in trouble, especially as a lot of ppl using these banks accept just about anything in thier mailbox. A keystroke recorder sent on-spec to X amount of email addresses will hit paydirt eventually.