British Government," waging War on society's most vulnerable."

Alias Bob

If you read the enclosed linked story, you will see what utter Hypocrisy exists in mainland Britain by The British Government.


http://communities.msn.co.uk/TheSilverSurfers/speakerscorner.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=8914&LastModified=4675350717013337707

Xterminator

I read the link.

1. These are civil servants, not government officals working for the CJC. They have clear job guidelines, to which they operate. If found to have broken these they are subject to diciplinary action.

2. This is a story from the point of view of one party. the response, if any, from the CJC has not been presented.

3. There is no detailed explanation of what was done by CJC that caused the problem. Is the man claiming that they grilled him from 9-5 for 30 days, or is he claiming something said or suggested in a meeting or several meetings , caused him stress, which then took a toll on his health?

4. The conclusion at the end is that this is a case of abuse, yet no such proof is offered, only an unsubstanciated allegation.

X

Alias Bob

To Terminator

1 I appreciate you replying in the zone of neutrality so (to speak) by saying that CJC employees have clear guide lines.

1 My reply is: Does this permit sending directives by letter to attend for interviews which were worded in the context of help for a period of six weeks, whilst they had received written information as to the ill effects the excessive pressure was having upon him. The word HELP and the word HARASS
are Worlds apart are they not?

2 As to a one sided story.

2 The CJC have responded by starting a fresh wave of HARASSMENT, by sending this client on a course designed for teenagers, which includes doing six weeks unpaid FULL TIME work. Since when has slavery been re-legalised?

3 No detailed explanation as to what caused this stress.

3 How can you possibly justify interrogating a man on the pretext of helping him. When in point of fact you are knowingly causing him actual physical harm?

Yours

Alias Bob

Xterminator

If you read the enclosed linked story, you will see what utter Hypocrisy exists in mainland Britain by The British Government.

Oringinally posted by Alias bob

Bob .. i will boil it down to 1 thing.
How is it the 'governments' hyprocrasy, when the government is in no way directly involved?

The CJC are a branch of civil servants, not appointed by the government, who have a job to do. Even if they are out of line .. how is that government hyprocrasy?

P.S. Sending someone who is unemployed on a course does not sound like victimisation. Nor is it slavery. In my book, unemployed people should be prepared to do any course, or take any reasonable actions deemed needed by the equivalant of FAS to make them more employable.

X

Hobbes

My main question is.

Can you give actual proof of this incident happening? All you have is a hearsay account with no name. Urban legends even tend to have more information.

which includes doing six weeks unpaid FULL TIME work. Since when has slavery been re-legalised?

My guess is he still gets the Dole. It's called work experience and they have the same kind of system here. Don't find a job within a set amount of time and your on forced training/work experience.

Yes it sucks, but what else can you do? Keep collecting "No thank you" letters and sucking money off the goverment?

(and in case you think I'm heartless I have been on such a program)

How can you possibly justify interrogating a man on the pretext of helping him. When in point of fact you are knowingly causing him actual physical harm?

I think the original question is how can you prove that the stress was caused by the questioning.

The simple thing to do is rather then argue who has the correct list, would of been to take say 5-10 of the most recent rejection letters and phoned the companies and asked for details as well as a copy of the CV he sent.

I would like a bit more linkage about the story rather then a comment someone said on a webboard.

Alias Bob

To Xterminator

You State

Bob .. i will boil it down to 1 thing.
How is it the 'governments' hypocrisy, when the government is in no way directly involved?

My answer

All letters sent to the Claimant State, "ON BEHALF OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE." The Secretary of State is a Government Minister is he NOT?
____________________________________________________

You State

P.S. Sending someone who is unemployed on a course does not sound like victimization. Nor is it slavery. In my book, unemployed people should be prepared to do any course, or take any reasonable actions deemed needed by the equivalent of FAS to make them more employable.

My answer

Since when do people work for nothing?

Can you get all your groceries for nothing?

You state

Unemployed people should be prepared to do any course.

I say

So why are they trying to stop this man from gaining more IT qualifications, to help enable him to get a job?



Yours

Alias Bob

Alias Bob

To Hobbes


You say

My main question is.

Can you give actual proof of this incident happening? All you have is a hearsay account with no name. Urban legends even tend to have more information.

Answer

The Name of the hospital is in Wildthings report, is it not?
The Date and time he was admitted, is it not?
The Town and County are mentioned, is it not?
The name of the organization he works for sixteen hours a week, is it not?
What the organization does is also mentioned, is it not?

SO ONE DOSENT HAVE TO BE A SHERLOCK HOLMES.
MOST PEOPLE COULD FIND A NEEDLE IN A HAYSTACK WITH LESS INFORMATION.

What do you want, a Birth Certificate and a Road Map? Try Multi Map it will tell where Bournemouth is.

Hobbes

I know where Bournemouth is.

Heh heh, try reading www.snopes.com they have urban legends with better information.

Basically you have a second hand story with the victim called "Man" and no name of the "Doctors".

It can't be considered a factual piece, most serious reporters don't write that way. For one thing reporters tend to name names and don't say things like "Doctors said". Also it's all hyped with "interrogated for six weeks", makes it sounds like he was detained for six weeks.

Btw it doesn't name the organisation he works for voluntary.

Also I would be inclined to believe that you are Wildthing as it is mentioned that he's been spamming on that board the same story and you just registered just to spam this story on two forums (except for your AOL scare post).

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Alias Bob
If you read the enclosed linked story, you will see what utter Hypocrisy exists in mainland Britain by The British Government.


http://communities.msn.co.uk/TheSilverSurfers/speakerscorner.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=8914&LastModified=4675350717013337707

id take a look at your own government before you go trying to fix other peoples....

Alias Bob

To WHITEWASH MAN

You say>>>

id take a look at your own government before you go trying to fix other peoples....
____________________________________________________


MY ANSWER IS>>>

You obviously cannot understand what you read> CAN YOU?

The Subject Header is>>>

British Government," waging War on society's most vulnerable."

NOT THE IRISH GOVERNMENT>> COME ON WAKE UP.

ADVICE IS>>> WASH YOUR EYES OUT, MAYBE TOO MUCH WHITEWASH IN THEM EH.



Yours

Alias Bob

WhiteWashMan

ho ho hoi.
arent you a funny guy.

you said look at the hypocrasy in the british government,
cant you read, i said look at your own government. you think its free of hypocracy?
or have you fixed that in the last week?

stop worrying about people in england and worry abouit people in ireland.
the last thing they need is another nosey git interfering in another country.
if youre that worreid, why not head out to finglas Fás centre and see what sort of stories you can drag out

by the way, if you press the 'quote' button above, you can 'quote' people, and its a lot easier

see

oh, and dont use caps. its considered bad manners.

Hobbes

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
stop worrying about people in england and worry abouit people in ireland.
the last thing they need is another nosey git interfering in another country.
if youre that worreid, why not head out to finglas Fás centre and see what sort of stories you can drag out

Profile For Alias Bob
...
Location Bournemouth,dorset. UK



Which would be why I'm inclined to believe the spammer on the other board and this chap is the same. Wouldn't surprise me if he's the "man" in question.

gandalf

First thing Alias Bob this is an Irish Board so wwman was entitled to post his comment regarding "look at your own government" as he thought that you are Irish. So next time your correcting someone keep it civil.

As regards this case as everyone says it is too ambigious to make a real call on. If he(or you) has been treated unfairly then I suggest you use your letter writing abilities to canvess your local MP's, Councillers and Political Parties to get them to take up his case.

Personally I have no problems with unemployed people been trained etc., you cannot expect to live off taxpayers without some payback. I luckily haven't been unemployed long enough in my working life to warrent been "trained" but when I was unemployed (for 3 months back in 1991) I did voluntary work to keep myself in touch with the working world.

If this is a valid case I'm sure a newspaper would be delighted to highlight it. If they already have and if they have an online presence then fire up the link.

Anyone here could come up with "There was a man...." story.

Gandalf.

Alias Bob

TO Hobbes



YOU SAY>>>
Also I would be inclined to believe that you are Wildthing as it is mentioned that he's been spamming on that board the same story and you just registered just to spam this story on two forums (except for your AOL scare post).

________________________________________________________________
Answer is>>>

You are wrong again, dates and times of Wildthings postings purely coincidental.
________________________________________________________________


As to AOL new dirty Tricks Re: AOL have recently been applying a secondary cut-off system.
________________________________________________________________

In point of Fact I e-mailed Microsoft direct and informed them as to the effect AOL's cut was having as to users of MS Explorer and Netscape Browsers.
I also mentioned that users of AOL that were with NTL, were reporting to be targeted more than others who where with such companies as BT.

The result was that within two days, NTL had decided it was time to release all those free NTWorld CDs and AOL became aware of this and dropped secondary the cut off.

Microsoft thanked me for taking the time to inform them as to above.

Changing the subject a bit. I must give you guys in Ireland a pat on the back, as you have created a very professional Web Site. Just how many years has the site been running?

I would really like to come over there sometime and try your real Irish Guinness, I'm sure you keep the good stuff over there.

Take care and God bless.


Yours

Alias Bob

WhiteWashMan

oh god, youre just down the road from me

bonkey

Originally posted by gandalf
Personally I have no problems with unemployed people been trained etc., you cannot expect to live off taxpayers without some payback.

This is an old topic, but seems to lie close to the heart of this issue.

The question, I guess, is whether or not a government have the right to demand anything in return for unemployment benefits (or whatever you want to call them).

Personally, I think they have the right to demand (and I use that word deliberately) anything up to and including 8 hours work per day, unless there are sound medical reasons against this.

Simply put, the dole (or UB, or whatever) is not a right, it is not a gift, and someone has to pay for it. I would be fully in favour of offering courses to the unemployed, and even more in favour (can you be more than fully in favour?) of work-experience-based courses.

This case raises other issues, but the whole notion of someone being forced to work for no pay is complete misdirection. They are getting paid....its just that they're used to getting the same pay for sititng at home on their bums, watching telly, or doing whatever they choose to with their life. Some people seem to think this is a right. It isnt.

jc

WhiteWashMan

unemployeement benifit should be abolished for people under certain circumstances.
work placement or community service should be made mandatory for anyone to recieve UB.

Alias Bob

TO bonkey

You say>>>

Personally, I think they have the right to demand (and I use that word deliberately) anything up to and including 8 hours work per day, unless there are sound medical reasons against this.

Simply put, the dole (or UB, or whatever) is not a right, it is not a gift, and someone has to pay for it. I would be fully in favour of offering courses to the unemployed, and even more in favour (can you be more than fully in favour?) of work-experience-based courses.
_____________________________________________________________________

ANSWER >>>>

You make some very valid points Bonkey.
So if they can find everyone who is unemployed a JOB that's just great.
So long as they pay them for doing it, that would solve all the unemployment.
I wonder why no one else has ever thought about that?

What a brilliant concept, JOBS for all overnight BRILLIANT.


Yours


Alias Bob

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Alias Bob


ANSWER >>>>

You make some very valid points Bonkey.
So if they can find everyone who is unemployed a JOB that's just great.
So long as they pay them for doing it, that would solve all the unemployment.
I wonder why no one else has ever thought about that?

What a brilliant concept, JOBS for all overnight BRILLIANT.

oh a hint of sarcasm.
its entirely possibly for your statment above to be true.
everybody in this country (england) could have a job if they wanted once. but do you think people getting unemplyment benifits really want to work in mcdonalds?
or have you decided that everyone should get 30 grand a year for being unskilled and untrained?
have you any idea how much training costs?
have you any idea that training for someone claiming benifit far outweighs what the would get paid?

why dont you just accpet the fact the you have to make some sort of an effort to go out and succeed. too many people want everything handed to them on a plate, and they are the leeches of society who need to be burned off.
too much bleeding heart left wing politics. this country is far too soft in places.
get of your arse and do something pro-active and stop whinging about one-off cases that arent even substanciated.
either that or get a job....

Alias Bob

To WhiteWashMan

You still haven't explained the HOW and WHERE, exactly we are going to find all these Jobs?

Perhaps you might like to apply your wondrous ideas by contacting the relevant Government Departments and see if you can get a senior executives job.
It would be such a pity to waste such talent as yours.



Oh yes! As for getting off my ass, as you so kindly put it. I happen to be in IT Design and Administration


Yours

Alias Bob

Sand

Hmm if nothing else they could do jobs of civic value, like clearing litter, and so on and so forth. Would help instill basic job skills like punctuality that can be lost during long bouts of unemployment.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Alias Bob
To WhiteWashMan

You still haven't explained the HOW and WHERE, exactly we are going to find all these Jobs?

Perhaps you might like to apply your wondrous ideas by contacting the relevant Government Departments and see if you can get a senior executives job.
It would be such a pity to waste such talent as yours.

you are blind.
you live down the road from me and you cant see any jobs?
do you actually go out?
i bet i could get at least 100 jobs in a week if it ried.
like i said, they wouldnt be managerial jobs, but they would be jobs.
hell mcdonalds and burger king are always looking.
all the phone shops are always looking.
there are always sales jobs.
if you cant get a job your fúcking lazy and deserve nothing.


perhaps you might get your own points of view sorted first before you take mine to task. after all, youre the person who doesnt agree with getting people trained up, people having to make an effort, and people being pro-active about seking work.

as for my talent, dont worry, its not wasted. i get paid vaste amount of money for what i do. you will in fact be happy to know that i get paid more money than i know what to do with. so no, my talents are not wasted. a little bit of effort is required though.

Oh yes! As for getting off my ass, as you so kindly put it. I happen to be in IT Design and Administration

you happen to be in or you just work in the department?
just because you make the tea doesnt make you important.

oh, and now you have seen my brilliant plan for all to get jobs by actually leaving the house, why dont you write tothe government. after all, you are the one whining about it arent you?
personally, anyone that wants to live on a pitance a week is welcome to it. i have no sympathy for 90% of unemployment cases. laziness and apathy.

Alias Bob

To WhiteWashMan

Your Profile states:


Occupation

Instument Of Destruction, Keeper of the Seals Of destiny, Field Support Analyst
________________________________________________________________________


Tell me!

Do they ever let you out unescorted, without men in white coats?

Why you can't even spell. For example, Instrument nor destiny in your own profile.

You are illiterate, so why not get training yourself for that matter. There are some excellent Adult Education Courses for backward people these days, would you like me to send you a brochure.



Yours

Alias Bob

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Alias Bob


Instrument nor destiny

i guess people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones should they?

gosh, you must be really bright to spot that error. i bet you spelt or wrong as some sort of ironic humour eh?
nice one.

you truely are my superior, especially since you cant even come back with a decent responsive argument and have to lower yourself to petty remarks.

you would probably be better going out and finding yourself a better teamaking job, you obviously arent taxed enough in the present one if you can spend your time here.......

gandalf

This thread is decending into drivel and personal insults and on the Politics boards what does that mean audience .....................


Yes its closed faster than a Nazi website is pulled from Yahoo.

Gandalf.