Scathing leading articles in Ha'aretz

Von

Originally posted by Sand
Argentina was an example of bad economics- They should have cut government spending in response to their neighbours devaluations, but didnt do so and landed themself in this. Nothing to do with free market economics, but rather their piss poor handling of their budget.

And where were these government spending cuts going to come from? The draft budget for 2002 proposed to cut spending by 18.6%. This was after civil service salaries and some pensions had already been reduced by 13% with unemployment rising from 3% to 20% and people with no social security reduced to searching in dustbins for food. The number of people in extreme poverty rose from 200,000 to 5m, those in poverty rose from 1m to 14m, illiteracy increased from 2% to 12% and functional illiteracy from 5% to 32%. The state loses half its tax revenue as a result of tax evasion. Only 17% of those in high income brackets pay income tax. The government followed IMF instructions to the letter, sold off state assets, "liberalised" the economy and it f**ked them. Up the bum.

Sand

No what ****ed them up was pegging their currency to the dollar - this helps brings about credibility for the argentine currency, but when their neighbours devalued and Argentina didnt (because it was pegged to the dollar), tax revenues fell- it is only sane to cut the budget then if you dont have the money to pay for your spending. As for the tax evasion you mention- what has that ot to do with the free market? Its a crime?

Ri-ra

Ah, Sand. You clearly didn't understand what I wrote. But, no matter. It's clear enough that you can't see past the dogma you've been indoctrinated with. You still see everything as an effect of the market. I was arguing the opposite. If the market fails due to or must take into account "externality," then it cannot control or be responsible for everything. In such cases, the government must intervene. Simple really.

The argument against government intervention is the difficulty a bureacracy will have in gaining correct and proper information regarding the problem, the possibility that the correct action in response to the problem may be politically unadvisable, and that there is often a "lag" between the government taking action and the actions taking effect, in which time the situation may have changed.

Again, your quote clearly implies (as it cannot help doing) that the market must enter into contact with a myriad of other institutions/ forces, and cannot be the thing to which society can appeal in the last instance. You sound like Frank Fukuyama, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here.

By all means have an education. But please study economics before you try to discuss it

!!!! Clever boy! The point being that education includes things other than economics. Economics is a part, not the whole. Have you studied politics, then? But you're an undergrad, and will learn.

Sand

Ri- Ra were both saying the same thing - Where theres a clear market failure then the government should intervene. Other than that the government should not intefere as it can do more harm than good for the reasons i mentioned.

You should understand the market is not a enforced system, like communism. Its the common desire of the individual to advance himself - whats in it for me? The government cant stop people from being people. Controlled economies such as communism have led only to black markets. Institutions dont impact the market, the market impacts institutions.

Education = Training for a job. I know its terrible that I dont care about say Plato and his ideas on society etc but I ive got finite resources of both time and money and Id rather learn something useful. The great thing about arts students is that they know more about economics than economists do. Hence they *know* socialist economics are good. If Id had known that before I went to college Id have studied an arts course which would have provided me with all the knowledge I need to to overthrow the capitalist system:)

P.S aint it grand the way a thread on Israeli newspaper articles has become a thread about me and any opinion Ive exspressed on the boards- yay!!!:P

bugler

Eh, bonkey, have a read of what you posted on the sticky relating to guidelines for posting in politics. The fact that a thread has gone this far off topic for so long is bad enough, the fact that it has done so with the active participation of a moderator is bizarre

On the stupidity of Israelis wanting to enter Palestinian areas: Does this apply to settlers, in your view Sand? The only difference being that settlers can expect protection from the IDF? Are we to believe that Palestinian militant attacks on illegal jewish settlements are a viable way of raising the Israeli peoples IQ average?

bonkey

Originally posted by bugler
Eh, bonkey, have a read of what you posted on the sticky relating to guidelines for posting in politics. The fact that a thread has gone this far off topic for so long is bad enough, the fact that it has done so with the active participation of a moderator is bizarre

Fair point. Mea culpa.

Thread locked.

Blame bugler

jc