PHP and MySQL part-time courses

DadaKopf

I'm looking for a cheap, part-time summer course in PHP and MySQL but I can't seem to find anything.

Does anyone know of any courses going on around Dublin over the summer?

DS

Just buy a good book and DIY.

beaver

"Yes, I know PHP and MySQL - I don't actually have any proof, but I learned lots about them by myself"

"Yes, I know PHP and MySQL - I attended a course on them last summer. Here, look at this piece of paper"

'Tis an evil, but courses have their uses.

dahamsta

Wouldn't a couple hundred thousand lines of source code on a floppy do the trick? You could write a PHP script to generate them.

adam

beaver

You're entirely right, but, for example, at this place I know if we were hiring a developer it'd be the MD making the call as it's small operation. I very much doubt he knows what SQL stands for, so giving him a disk really does nothing for him. But, if you hand him a piece of paper he'll say to himself, this guy has at least spend X weeks actually being taught this - this backs up his claim of knowing what he's talking about somewhat.

In an ideal world of course your way would be the best

dahamsta

I know beaver. Same goes for HR departments - they couldn't give a toss about what you can /actually/ do, they just want to see a piece of paper, which could of course prove absolutely nothing. It's a sad situation.

I'm just being sour -- I'm looking for a job myself at the moment, and it's going to be difficult because I have no "certification", no college degree, just five years of hands-on experience with Linux, Apache, PHP, MySQL, Perl, Windows, etc. I wouldn't widdle on a lot of the techies who apply to me for a job (I've had enough of webdev, hence the search), but they'd get one elsewhere faster than I would. Bastards.

adam

The Corinthian

Originally posted by beaver
"Yes, I know PHP and MySQL - I don't actually have any proof, but I learned lots about them by myself"

"Yes, I know PHP and MySQL - I attended a course on them last summer. Here, look at this piece of paper"

"Yes, I know PHP and MySQL - I taught myself, but you'll have seen that from my on-line CV which is written using PHP and uses MySQL to store and manage the content."

It's good to have a training course, a cert, dip or degree under your belt, but after that you should use your initiative and imagination and not expect spoon feeding.

beaver

It's good to have a training course, a cert, dip or degree under your belt, but after that you should use your initiative and imagination and not expect spoon feeding.

You missed the point. Courses, certs, degrees don't matter a shíte in the education process if your determined to learn stuff yourself. However, if you're up against many other people in an interview for a position it's most certainly useful to have a piece of paper to reinforce your claims of knowledge and ability.

I don't see that initiative will help you if the HR dept. wants a piece of paper and you don't have one...

Ph3n0m

well i might aswell throw my 2 cent into the pot

I work "laughingly" as a free web dev. A recent client asked me to generate a back end website, so he could make modifications on his site, using some sort of admin area. I download a ****load of cgi scripts, all claiming to do this and that. I then realised they were completely a) inflexible or b) not exactly what I wanted.

So what did lil me do - went out bought two books on PHP + mySQL - and hey presto within two weeks (roughly) I had the skeleton of the admin area, integrating with a SQL database.

Course are of benefit if you are coming in from the dark, but hell whats wrong with a little hard work.

I recommend the following books and links:

Links
http://www.php.net
http://www.phpbuilder.net

Books
PHP Essentials

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076152729X/ref=pd_sim_books/002-7800427-1925662

PHP Fast & Easy

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076153055X/ref=pd_sim_books/002-7800427-1925662

Both books are by Julie Meloni

and since I am not hungover today there are links to them from amazon (where I got them, reasonably priced too)

beaver

Sorry, but am I on another planet here? Of course it's best to learn yourself - who said there was anything wrong with hard work.

The fact remains that when you go for an interview with people who are not technically expert in the areas that you are it can be difficult to persuade them that you know your stuff. One good way of doing this is to do a course and get a bit of paper with squiggles on it that proves someone spent X hours or weeks trying to get you to learn the stuff.

Congratulations on your feat, but if you walked into our offices for a job and showed your admin suite - unless it was exactly what the MD was looking for he just wouldn't be interested, regardless of the fact that it might be written in the language they want you to develop another application in for them. However, if you had a piece of paper that said "Yep! This guy is certified to code this and that" then they would likely be more persuaded that you were up to the task, generally. It plain sucks but it's the way it works in an awful lot of places and the idealistic approach is only gonna work for a small minority of people who are great at what they do and are in the right place at the right time...

Ph3n0m

Hey dont get me wrong, I agree that to a "newbie" a piece of paper is much more impressive then anything else.

But being honest I found, personally, that experience rather then training goes a lot further

By the way - why are courses so damned expensive - especially for the norms like me (i.e. those without company backing, who have to fork out from their own pockets)

dahamsta

But being honest I found, personally, that experience rather then training goes a lot further

It goes further when you're actually working (IMHO). It doesn't go half as far as it should when you're trying to get a job though.

By the way - why are courses so damned expensive - especially for the norms like me (i.e. those without company backing, who have to fork out from their own pockets)

Because of the company backing mostly. Most of the people in courses are sponsored by medium-large companies, so the people that run the courses inflate the prices.

adam

nahdoic

yeah but surely your own personal impressive long portfolio of current active websites that look and run damn good would kick the ass over someone with a few crappy qualifications and no experience/initiative/business sense for keeping deadlines in projects or giving what clients want?

"Yes, I know PHP and MySQL - I have put my extensive knowledge of this area into practise on countless occassions, where I developed and honed my skills even more in this dynamic area, where what you learned yesterday is little use today! Please take a look at the following impressive examples of my work www ...."

(actually that's nearly a quote from my CV :P)

Although that said I am studying for a degree in Computer Applications in DCU atm as I realise how important a good qualification is to fall back on

But I am also doing web development myself on my own initiative. Building up a lot of experience. There's pretty much no web project I can't take on my own now, pretty happy with that At least no client has never asked for something where I have had to say, no sorry can't do that. Instead I'm always like, wow that's a great idea, it will be a little harder to develop and may cost a little more but will definitely be worth it.

I guess you need both Qualifications and Experience and when I leave college I'll have both . Adam why don't you do a night course and build up your qualifications (i guess it could be expensive though)? You could pretty much piss through a lot of the courses and get a nice lovely piece of paper at the end saying what you already knew yourself.

Ph3n0m

aye that is true, I am in that unfortunate position where I am trying to find a full-time job, but with little or no pieces of white paper - problem is I am completely self-taught ....sigh

nahdoic

When hiring people, the interviewing panel should really just get all interviewees in one big room and have a big scrap, survival of the fittest. No, seriously I mean they should get all applicants to take a 1 hour exam, where they have to code up something within one hour. Whoever gets closest to completion, or whosever code runs most efficiently should get the job. Sorted! At least when I am hiring staff that's what I'd do. I'd want people who can actually do stuff ... not just sit around, itch their butts and waste company resources.

ObeyGiant

Originally posted by beaver
However, if you had a piece of paper that said "Yep! This guy is certified to code this and that" then they would likely be more persuaded that you were up to the task, generally.

While I can mostly agree with what you're saying (professional experience and/or certification makes you a lot more attractive to a potential employer than a LOT of unproven experience), unfortunately it doesn't really apply in this particular situation.

PHP is a relatively new technology - as such, it is hard to find somewhere that will certify your sk1llz, and so, if it's employment that you're hoping to get out of this, then you're shit out of luck. Hell - by the time certification courses come around, they're not going to mean a thing. Look at how much credibility HTML courses have nowadays.

However, if you're not that fussed about getting employment out of all this, and you just want to learn PHP and MySQL for your own, personal enjoyment, then your best bet is to start teaching yourself. Install them both onto your own machine, and see what kind of fun you can have with them. As such, it's best to have some kind of starter / reference book. One I'd personally recommend is Professional PHP Programming, from Wrox press. It's got pretty good examples, and funny-lookin people on the front to laugh at.

dahamsta

yeah but surely your own personal impressive long portfolio of current active websites

Don't forget about the inactive ones nahdoic, like corkcityfc.com.

that look and run damn good would kick the ass over someone with a few crappy qualifications and no experience/initiative/business sense for keeping deadlines in projects or giving what clients want?

I would hope so nahdoic (and if you weren't being hypothetical, thank you), but it's not as easy as that -- I can't force anyone to go and look at the websites I've developed, and more importantly in these circumstances, I certainly can't force them to look at the backend, the actual code.

"Yes, I know PHP and MySQL - I have put my extensive knowledge of this area into practise on countless occassions, where I developed and honed my skills even more in this dynamic area, where what you learned yesterday is little use today! Please take a look at the following impressive examples of my work www ...."

And this is an example of what I mean -- how many people, particularly people in HR, or management, who often don't understand even the basics of webdev, will actually go and look at those websites? You know and I know that if the sites are up to scratch, you /should/ get the job, but most poeple won't bother going to them. They want to see certs and diplomas. It's very, very unfortunate, but it's the way of the world. I don't like it at all, because, like I said, I'm trying to get a job at the moment, and I don't even have a CV! I've been self-employed for five years, I didn't need one.

I guess you need both Qualifications and Experience

You don't /need/ both, but it can be advantageous. There will always be a small core of companies out there who know what they're about, and who will look for people properly. But while the money is there (and being spent foolishly), there will always be those that use job agencies, or who want to fill a position no matter what. Personally, I don't have a lot of time for job agencies, but they seem to get the job done. I would argue about their effectiveness though. The right person for a job should be someone /you/ think is right, not some agency that just wants to get people placed. But that's an argument for another day I guess.

and when I leave college I'll have both

Good for you man, well done. Seriously - you stand a much better chance that I do of getting a job. In an ideal world, that wouldn't be the case, but we don't live in an ideal world. (Some might say, "thank god!" )

Adam why don't you do a night course and build up your qualifications (i guess it could be expensive though)? You could pretty much piss through a lot of the courses and get a nice lovely piece of paper at the end saying what you already knew yourself.

Well, expense would be a large factor, but there's also the fact that I don't really know of any courses that would apply to what I want to do. Most of them are Windows trite, and I don't particularly want to work with Windows. Also, I live in Cork, and choice is even worse down here. The major factor is my own failing though - I don't want to. I've taught myself /everything/ I know, and I'm particularly proud of that. Having to take a course would be a kick in the teeth for me, it would be like admitting defeat. I know, I know, I'm going to need to get over my pride, but I'm going to have to ease into it, you know?

When hiring people, the interviewing panel should really just get all interviewees in one big room and have a big scrap, survival of the fittest.

You mean like a sort of Coder's Death Match nahdoic? That'd be COOL!

adam

dahamsta

PHP is a relatively new technology - as such, it is hard to find somewhere that will certify your sk1llz

Very, very true.

One I'd personally recommend is Professional PHP Programming, from Wrox press. It's got pretty good examples, and funny-lookin people on the front to laugh at.

I've never been much of a book-learnin' type, but having spent a hell of a lot of time on phpbuilder.com before it went to sh1te, I can honestly testify that it's one of the most respected tomes on PHP out there. I also had the honour of working alongside Jesus M. Castagnetto - one of the funny lookin people on the cover -while doing so, and he was one clever guy. Taught me a whole lot about PHP, to the stage where I was able to correct him a couple of times.

Ah, them's were the days...

adam

DadaKopf

Most of that was thoroughly unhelpful, thanks a lot. 1] I don't want to learn PHP and SQL for any employment reason, it's purely for myself. 2] I've never coded before, all I know is HTML and the tiniest bit of JavaScript and CSS. I was looking for a course because teaching is the best way to be introduced to something entirely new to you - the human element really speeds things along when you're starting off. That was why I was asking about a course.

Since most of you think courses are dumb, because you're all so above all that, could someone recommend some good books, please?

ObeyGiant: I was thinking of buying that book. Is it really suitable for a beginner like me?

Two other books I found were: PHP in 24 Hours (no SQL info in it) and PHP by example (with SQL in it) - looked good and 'for dummies-ish' but maybe there's too limited.

Advice, please.

nahdoic

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Most of that was thoroughly unhelpful, thanks a lot.

oops this thread went terribly OT. If you just want to dive in straight away, showing you how to do the basics and explaining why, here ya go.

http://wdvl.internet.com/Authoring/DB/SQL/Build/index.html

no need to buy a book. Great fast, comprehensive easy tutorial. It should be all you need.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Most of that was thoroughly unhelpful, thanks a lot.

Sorry, I may have started that all off

I've never coded before, all I know is HTML and the tiniest bit of JavaScript and CSS. I was looking for a course because teaching is the best way to be introduced to something entirely new to you - the human element really speeds things along when you're starting off. That was why I was asking about a course.

While most programmers will scoff at this, HTML has already given you a foundation in proper coding. Using logical syntax, nesting and the inevitable problem solving that comes with hand coding HTML will be things that will stand you in good stead.

I only did one formal course in programming in my life and I could already program prior to it – what it did give me was an education to good coding practices (I wince at the code I wrote prior to it) – so while it can help, I don’t think it would be essential for you.

Consider how much you were ready to spend for a course. Then post on Boards looking for someone to spend a few hours with you over the course of a few weeks to tutor you instead (be sure to check any past posts they may have made on PHP/MySQL, so as to see if they’re any good ).

Do use the Web. PHP.NET and PHP Builder are both excellent resources for teaching yourself.

Also, before doing anything else, if you’re Windoze based, take a look at this tutorial. It’s excellent for anyone starting out in PHP/MySQL and after following it and playing around with it and other code examples for a day, you may reconsider your need for a course.

Hope this was of help, in the end