Sell Out

The Evil Monkey

ok so this is always a topic of discussion whenever someone is talking about a particular band *coughs "blink 182"* however i dont want to hear about people who sell out, i'd like to hear peoples definition of the term "sellout". i've had this conversation with people all over the place but the majority of them like punk and therefore a majority of them define it as moving to a major record label. i don't think this is right and i want a wider view point. what does everyone else think?

atonal

my view of selling out is when a band/artist/individual knowingly abandons standards and principles strictly for the sake of making money. This presupposses that the band/artist/individual actually had principles to sell out. Being flagrently commercial is not selling out if all you cared about to beigin with was fame and money. By this definition it is impossible to truly know if someone has sold out you can only presume.

Porce Garcce

i porce i sell out the bottom? it gooood money and it only hurt sometime









i porce?

evil_L

I agree. You can't really define selling out. But I think the phenomenon occurs when the artist has a change in principles, or is deemed to have so by the fan;if this happens then the whole fanbase changes and the artist in response to this often unknowingly changes their principles to keep the fans happy, which in itself is not selling out cause its still all about the fans, but it is selling out in the mind of the original fan. So who can say? Its impossible to tell if an artist has really sold out or not. You'd have to present the situation to a person with absolutely no opinions on music (since their taste in music also represents a set of principles held by both artist and shared or respected by the fan) and who is apathetic to big corporations V.s the little guy etc. It just can't be done!! In my opinion neways....

Kali

pah its easily defined: jamiroquai

beardedchicken

Originally posted by The Evil Monkey
*coughs "blink 182"* "sellout?

actually, i think blink's new album is far more interesting and mature than their last one, so if they have sold out, it's fine by me...sell on boys! (ducking to avoid the flak)*











*not trying to start anything, just a thought!
interesting point, though, does money corrupt??!! **

**why do i always feel like i have to write a disclaimer with every opinion on this board??

Engor

They rock-seriously. They're not selling out-it's called growing up. I like you beardedchicken, and I've only been here about 30 minutes!

James_M

I don't think there is an artist that hasn't sold out in some way. I'm not saying thats a really negative thing. Its just that the term has been become known as a really negative thing.

Artists bear in mind what is going to sell and what may not sell when writing and releasing and I reckon people will be hard pushed to find a singer/band who have not in any way "sold out"

At least some bands are honest about it

irokie

people talk about selling out. selling out is changing for more money, right? in simple.

Metallica... sellouts? NO!
if metallica spent the rest of their lives playing thrash to appease their fans, that'd be selling out. they changed direction cos they changed as people. if they got up and recorded an album of songs along the lines of creeping death, just because that's what people want them to do, that's selling out. my favourite metallica song is the outlaw torn, but my second is damage inc. i like metallica. i'm not a thrash fan or a hard rock fan, i'm a metallica fan, and i like everything they've ever done(except the thing that should not be) and i don't care what they do... i think that if they wanna change cos they feel they goota, then they can't ever sell out

alb

Eh firstly,

Originally posted by James_M
I don't think there is an artist that hasn't sold out in some way. I'm not saying thats a really negative thing. Its just that the term has been become known as a really negative thing.

I think thats not true, I think there are plenty of artists who haven't sold out in any way. These are mostly ones that aren't hyped at all and that people who don't follow music and seek them out themselves probably won't ever find. Ones who are happy to tour and play to bars of 0-200 people every night for the rest of their career (as an example).

secondly, i think selling out can be defined easily:
Influencing your music, style or commercial presence in order to have greater appeal to the lowest common denominator, rather than treating music as an artform and just expressing yourself honestly and seeing it as a bonus if people understand and like it.

atonal

Originally posted by alb

Ones who are happy to tour and play to bars of 0-200 people every night for the rest of their career (as an example).

Do you think they are really happy doing that? I mean most of the music that is really important to me, the bands I really care about are in this position - I almost wish they would sell out, just a little bit, it is a rough life. I hate seeing the amazingly talented struggle while the marginally adequate are hypermarketed to stardom.

I think every artist would like to be heard.
I leave alot of shows thinking a tree just fell in a forest, something amazing happened tonight and maybe 100 people saw it.

James_M

Originally posted by alb
Eh firstly,



I think there are plenty of artists who haven't sold out in any way. These are mostly ones that aren't hyped at all and that people who don't follow music and seek them out themselves probably won't ever find.

Point taken alb but thats musicians who haven't "broken the market". It is a market after all and I still think that in the case of any musicians who have become a success, an argument can be made to show how they have "sold out" in some small way or another.

Its just a case of knowing enough about them.

I'm all on for it, as long as you don't lose sight of what you believe you want in or out of music. As said, it is an art but successes don't consider the money a nuisance. They tried to get it that way.

Trev M

Originally posted by atonal

I leave alot of shows thinking a tree just fell in a forest, something amazing happened tonight and maybe 100 people saw it.

Spoken like a true fan of music....well done good sir, I know exactly what you mean. This is what it is to be a music fan, to concentrate more on the positive aspects of your experience rather than blabbing utter crap about some so called sell outs, something I am guilty of myself in the metallica thread, I still say they are greedy motherf*ckers though

all the best - Trev

The Evil Monkey

i agree with you Trev M! that was really well said atonal. its sorta a catch 22 thing, people want to see their fav bands but dont want them to sell out,this forces the guys in the bands to work which resricts when they play and tour which equally pisses off fans because then they dont see them at all. seems like some people just want to get pissed at the bands before trying to see where they are coming from.

irokie

exactly, but the thing is, if people keep saying well said, the thread is goign to die...

what about manufactured bands buying in... now there'd b e soemthing to see, tellin their record companies to phuq off and getting on with their thing... that's something i'd like to see

francie brady

I think "selling out" does exsist and that everyone that wants their music heard will "sell out". But they don't do it by changing their style. they do it by "promotion"

Blink 182 haven't change their style since they started but their record company have pushed them and thrown money at them to make them what they are today.

Pearl Jam nearly done the same but put an end to it by refusing to do promotional videos.

i know i talk crap, read between the lines

The Evil Monkey

i think i'm the only person who does think that Blink 182s music has changed. it seems that they got more immature the older they got because they saw a market hole that needed filling and changed to meet it (i.e. in my view selling out) its not as bad as some and i still like the music but thats just how i feel ............................................................................................................................... then again maybe i'm the only one

AtlantaSuburb

sell-out... hum... i guess it begins where bands are not really interested in pleasing a, however large and growing, fanbase anymore but simply do it for the money... for me, sell-out begins where creativity stops... accusing bands of sell-out because they happen to make money, and maybe lots of it, with what they're doing as artists. nirvana never sold-out, and god knows they made millions, r.e.m. have never sold out, queen have never sold out, all their music has always been driven by a creative spark. but the countless revivals of acts the the who are sell-out of the worst kind. if anyone can still find anything creative in the six millionth tired rendition of substitute they haev beteter ears than me... and i LOVE the who... know what i mean?

:-)

AtlantaSuburb:cool:

DeadBankClerk

1. when a band forms they want to be rich and famous.
2. all the hard core fans think their band is teh leets because the are not commercial.
3. fame hits the band, and they become rich and famous.
4. fans turn to begrudgers.

Karl Hungus

Here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=361576#post361576

I've had a pretty longwinded discussion on what selling out is and isn't. Click the link and read for yourself.

This is an excert from my last addition to the topic.

Music is always opinion, never fact.
So you will never get the definite answer you're after.
There's no written rule saying that if you've sold so many albums, that you're a sellout. Or that if your last album was different to the one before that...

If you don't beleive Metallica have sold out, then they haven't.
If you don't beleive compromising your music because of what's popular is selling out, then it's not.

It's all up to what each and every person thinks.
Each person has their own idea as to what selling out is.
And each person has their own breaking point as to how much a band can do before they give up on them.
I was a huge Metallica fan.
I lapped up Load when I got it.
And I liked ReLoad aswell.
Garage Inc was a brilliant idea.
S&M, as you would put it, was a masterstroke.
Even with the whole Napster thing going on, I still thought they hadn't sold out.

Now however, I do think they've sold out.
And looking back over the years, yes, I think they had sold out at a far earlier time than I let myself beleive.
It goes to show, that if you're a fan of a band, you're less likely to say "Sellout" than someone who's not.

So please, don't ask for a definition on what "Selling Out" means, as one doesn't exist for me, that will exist for you.