No offence, but Metal?!?

danbert

Oaky seriously what is with the resurrection of Metal?
I remember back in the day listenin' to Iron Maiden, Metalica, Mega deathy and the like when they were in there prime.
Then ther came a new fresh sound from the street called dance, [que the funky music], it blew everyone away no-one had ever heard anything like it and it was ours!
So is this Metl thing just a case of the youth of today having a poor imagination and not being able to come up with there own sound, or am I being to harsh on them?
Replys please.

P.S. This is not meant as an offensive piece to any of you who do happen to be Metal fan's, merely a serious question.

L8r!!!

Shred

It has it's really popular phases every few years and then it goes back under-ground for a couple of years
(where i think most die-hard metal fans prefer it, as you get more quality as oppossed to vast quantities of bands - a lot of which are ****e)

We are currently in a 'popular' phase:)

schrodinger

I cant stand the type of "metal" being released onto society today. I am a striclty old skool metal fan Metallica, Guns N' Roses, Megadeth, Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Anthrax, Alice In Chains and so forth. But this new Rap Rock is s@#t! I want to kill Linkin Park Limp Bizkit, Papa Roach and all the others who are destroying the good name of metal. Thank you this has been my two cents.

atonal

nu-metal is no metal at all

GoneShootin

Metal these days is not as it was in that past

id like to hear a change of the term Metal to, um, Brass. Its a metal, but one that is easily shaped and can conform to most shapes

leaving cert enginerring take note

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by danbert
Oaky seriously what is with the resurrection of Metal?
I remember back in the day listenin' to Iron Maiden, Metalica, Mega deathy and the like when they were in there prime.
Then ther came a new fresh sound from the street called dance, [que the funky music], it blew everyone away no-one had ever heard anything like it and it was ours!
So is this Metl thing just a case of the youth of today having a poor imagination and not being able to come up with there own sound, or am I being to harsh on them?
Replys please.

P.S. This is not meant as an offensive piece to any of you who do happen to be Metal fan's, merely a serious question.

I'm not quite sure what you mean exactly.

Are you saying that people should have stopped listening to Metal in the 80s?
And that Dance is the new thing in, so everyone must listen to it?

What are you trying to say exactly?
Because there are kids listening to Metal now that they must have poor imaginations?

I'm sorry, but if that's your arguement, its not a very good one.

Sure the kind of Metal that is popular today, bands like Slipknot and limp bizkit is complete rubbish, and most of what I listen to is underground. But listening to something simply because it's the in thing? That's what I call having poor imagination.

Robbo

That is the first time I've heard the Rolling Stones referred to as a metal band. Kudos.

NeRb666

People use the term "metal" too loosely these days. Limp bizkit, korn, all that crap has nothing to do with metal. It just gives a bad impression in the mainstream rock media about what metal is.

schrodinger

Originally posted by Robbo
That is the first time I've heard the Rolling Stones referred to as a metal band.

Well whatever although ur probably right. /me wonders why he put them in there.

EL_Diablo

Originally posted by danbert
Oaky seriously what is with the resurrection of Metal?
I remember back in the day listenin' to Iron Maiden, Metalica, Mega deathy and the like when they were in there prime.
Then ther came a new fresh sound from the street called dance, [que the funky music], it blew everyone away no-one had ever heard anything like it and it was ours!
So is this Metl thing just a case of the youth of today having a poor imagination and not being able to come up with there own sound, or am I being to harsh on them?
Replys please.

P.S. This is not meant as an offensive piece to any of you who do happen to be Metal fan's, merely a serious question.

L8r!!!

People who listen to metal have no imagination as opposed to people who listen to dance is what it looks like you are saying. So are you really talking about the dance that is out now?? Untz Untz Untz Untz over and over with the odd bit of some bloke saying the same few words a couple of times and a bit of keyboard if you're lucky. Seems like you need a lot more imagination to make a song with lyrics, Guitar, drums, bass, and whatever other instruments in the band than to bang your feet on a wall and call it music.

dccarm

Good argument El Diablo, but you realise this metal lark will never last. Just sweaty long haired men yelling into a microphone. I could do that. No imagination required!

Although if I knew anything at all about metal, I might be able to make a valid argument, but I don't so rather than spouting crap about it I'll just keep quiet. Your assessment of dance music is just plain ignorant and I'm sure everyone reading it will agree.

bombidol

You will find that most new metal isnt really called metal at all even by the musicians its called hardcore, for any of the old schoolers like me, its basically an evolved form of what Bodycount done in the early 90's which was then taken on by Rage against the machine, Then Korn came out with a new sound and just about every band thereafter was using a crossbreed sound of R>A>T>M and Korn.


Bomb

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

/me thwaps Schrodinger

you don't know good metal until you've listened to Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, or Demons & Wizards.

table breaking wussie!

Lemming

Originally posted by dccarm
Your assessment of dance music is just plain ignorant and I'm sure everyone reading it will agree.

Actually ,... speaking from a musician point of view (16 years Viola, 8 years Piano, 5 years guitar + 10 years of Orchestra), the skills difference required to make half-way decent rock or metal music and dance music is VERY large.

Dance music requires very little skill to make. As El_Diablo pointed out already, its just a base beat with a few lyrics and the odd 3 bars of keyboard music repeated (3 bars -> think roughly 12 different musical notes)

Granted .. we've all heard metal music that sounded as if someone was murdering a cat (they probably were but lets not go there ), but if you look at any decent stuff from a musical point of view .. it's actually quite complex and some of it conforms to classical music writing conventions, which needless to say, require a lot of skill to do.

ReefBreak

you don't know good metal until you've listened to Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, or Demons & Wizards.

Okay, any band that's called "Demons & Wizards" cannot be considered good.

bombidol

Ill say it again, Stand a musician from a metal band next to a musician from a rock/pop/etc band and 9 times out of ten the metal musician will blow the others away with pure skill on their instrument

Bomb

Shred

I remember back in the day listenin' to Iron Maiden, Metalica, Mega deathy and the like when they were in there prime. Then ther came a fresh sound from the street called dance

Em, I think dance was around a long time before some of the abovementioned bands... dance originated in the 70's as far as i'm concerned and it was/is actually pretty good - it also had 'real' musicians playing and writing the music, unlike today where 'dance artists' just steal from other musicians...I believe they call it sampling or something..... it begins with an 's' alright:D

Having played in various metal bands (and other styles since) over the years, I realise that it actually takes a lot of effort to actually write/play this kind of music - this is why metal musicians are respected throughout the world by other musicians...

I have no problem with people listening to dance music, I just get a little pissed off that they have the audacity to slag other music forms
:mad:

Rolo Tomasi

Lemming

Actually ,... speaking from a musician point of view (16 years Viola, 8 years Piano, 5 years guitar + 10 years of Orchestra), the skills difference required to make half-way decent rock or metal music and dance music is VERY large.
Dance music requires very little skill to make. As El_Diablo pointed out already, its just a base beat with a few lyrics and the odd 3 bars of keyboard music repeated (3 bars -> think roughly 12 different musical notes)

Granted .. we've all heard metal music that sounded as if someone was murdering a cat (they probably were but lets not go there ), but if you look at any decent stuff from a musical point of view .. it's actually quite complex and some of it conforms to classical music writing conventions, which needless to say, require a lot of skill to do.

What a short sighted view from someone who has so much experience in music. There are crap rock/nu metals bands, ie Linkin Park and Electronica bands, ie anything in the charts at the moment.
But dont condemn talented musicians such as Tool and Aphex Twin just because of the genre of music they play.

koneko

You've gotta be kidding me. Finally something is being played a lot, that isn't pop-junk or dance-sh1te and you complain? Whether it be metal (proper metal), or new (nu) metal. Either is better than the usual drivel we get. Really. Young people nowadays, no taste in music.

seamus

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41018#post368661

First bit of sense I've ever seen said on the entire subject.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by bombidol
Ill say it again, Stand a musician from a metal band next to a musician from a rock/pop/etc band and 9 times out of ten the metal musician will blow the others away with pure skill on their instrument

Bomb

Bullshít... why do you think this, because most metal musicians can play extremely fast? If thats what you're thinkin' than you're a fool. Speed isn't what good musicianship is about. Diversity is what it's about. Also, how do you know this?
Rock and metal are pretty much along the same lines, but more often I've found rock musicians to be better... although I've heard some wicked metal musicians, in my meaning of metal I'm talkin about bands such as Metallica, Guns n' Roses, Iron Maiden etc...etc... all those three and there's more I could list of are a form of rock band... so your above statement means nothing.

As well as this I don't even consider pop to be a debatable or worthy form of music to give my thought to. So my comparison here is between rock and metal, and as I said they are very alike, sort of like a cat and a lion, they're both of the cat family.

Lemming

Originally posted by Rolo Tomasi
Lemming




What a short sighted view from someone who has so much experience in music. There are crap rock/nu metals bands, ie Linkin Park and Electronica bands, ie anything in the charts at the moment.
But dont condemn talented musicians such as Tool and Aphex Twin just because of the genre of music they play.

My apologies .. i meant to stick in an edit about some dance stuff being quite well done and technical .. but I got called away from my desk in work.

I agree .. there are some absolutely horrific metal / nu-metal bands out there. You'll get no argument from me on that one.

bombidol

Hold on, First of all i said nothing about Speed i said skill i also said 9 out of 10 times, so i left some space there for exceptions. I base what i say on the fact that i have been playing guitar and bass for about 10 years and have played in a band about 6 years.
Also let me make this point, Music Evolves, thats what its does, its spawns and moves and grows every day a person picks up a guitar or makes the choice to buy that first album, metal is not metal anymore metal was 10 years ago, metal was leather studded wristbands, mullets and satan tattoos, Now the metal is Hardcore the mullets replaced by bald heads the wrist bands replaced by 7 string guitars and satan tattoos covered up by skateboard logos.
If music didnt evolve we would still be listening to Elvis, and while there are worse things to listen to id rather be trying new things, So while you are listening to Megadeth and Iron maidan and other old school metal bands all the time, ill be listening to the new wave of bands and going back to the old stuff when i feel like it, I really do feel sorry for the people who label bands crap just because they might have some exposure.

BomB
:cool:

Dr. Loon

Of course music evolves, so do people that's why I don't listen to Megadeth or Metallica anymore, occasionally I would listen to GNR, Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots aside from that, anything "hardcore" today is a load of bóllox, I'm sick of a) weird fúckers ala linkin park playing shít, they are talentless, maybe some of the musicians are good, but their song-writing is up their arsé. Same goes to Limp bizkit, and then we have all these other fúckin goofy bands, like alien ant farm, and other bands that act stupid.... I can't even think of the names because they annoy me so much I switch them off before I see who they are!

This is of course my opinion, and you can like whatever shít you want, fair play to ye.

You left some space for exceptions??? 9 out of 10? Not much space there. Your comment was crap. 9 out of 10 metal players are definitely not better than most rock musicians, pop maybe...but as I said I'm not discussing pop. I've been playing drums and been interested in music for a long time myself, I know what I'm on about. IMO 10 out of 10 jazz musicians are always 10 times better than any other musician on the planet, usually because they have an understanding of all types of music. The we're not discussing jazz, either way metal musicians don't have a patch on 'em.

Ph3n0m

man, like the cleaning of a house, it never ends

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41018#post368661


a post I made somewhere else in time.....hell even a mod gave props to it

(does that mean I'm special?????)

lol

danbert

I didn't mean that people listening to metal have no imagination, merely that it seem's to me that they haven't gone out and found there own sound, its like they've just gone and found some of there big brothers records up in the attic and have started listening what we stopped listening too years ago.
I'm not argueing which is a better type of music, obviously enough thats a completely personal thing, what i was tryin' to say was more of a cultural thing, maybe that didn't come across in my original post,but thats what i was tryin' to say,
Surely the point of music is to develop and reflect upon that generations views, opinions and lifestyle.
Not to appear in cycles. And repeat and repeat and repeat etc.
You get what i'm tryin' to say?Its seems the arguement has descended into the realms of "My da is better than your da"
Any opinions?
Thanks for taking the time too answer and read this.
L8r!!

bombidol

Exacty Danbert, instead of trying to explain Why he just says its crap, i think any musician with a wide range of tastes can agree with me.

BomB

Ph3n0m

Originally posted by danbert
I didn't mean that people listening to metal have no imagination, merely that it seem's to me that they haven't gone out and found there own sound, its like they've just gone and found some of there big brothers records up in the attic and have started listening what we stopped listening too years ago.

wow, to me, if ever there was an insult to someone's preference of music, there it is. danbert , one question - if someone likes metal, heavy metal, dance or whatever - surely they HAVE found their own sound!?!?! your statement can be interpreted in many ways - but the way I initially read it was you were ridiculing anyone who, by chance, discovered heavy metal. granted that some people who listen to that particular type of music, probably did stumble across their dad's/brother's/sister's/mother's record collection - that hardly their fault. they could easily listen to it, then either say "yay" or "nay" - I hardly think they can be faulted for that.

just because you have stopped listening to "it" years ago, doesnt mean everyone else has too - if we all did that we would be nothing more then sheep

danbert

Good point.
But, does this not show a lack of imagination to go and find something new? I mean if all the great musicians of the past had just listened to what came b4, decide that they liked it and made more, surely music would never progress?
I agree everyone sould at some stage listen to everything appriciate it for what it is and yes, maybe even like it, and here comes another one, but shouldn't they then go out and build on what they've heard, whats gone b4 it and make something new?
Maybe should is too strong a word, but for the lack of a better word do ya get what i'm trying to say?
Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply to this.
L8r!!

Ph3n0m

Originally posted by danbert
Good point.
But, does this not show a lack of imagination to go and find something new? I mean if all the great musicians of the past had just listened to what came b4, decide that they liked it and made more, surely music would never progress?
I agree everyone sould at some stage listen to everything appriciate it for what it is and yes, maybe even like it, and here comes another one, but shouldn't they then go out and build on what they've heard, whats gone b4 it and make something new?
Maybe should is too strong a word, but for the lack of a better word do ya get what i'm trying to say?
Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply to this.
L8r!!

not really a lack of imagination.

ok lets look at an example or two, namely me

I go hooked on metal around 1988/89 - mainly cause a close friend of mine was playing a tape when I knocked into his house one day, I was simpyl curious - in fact it was Slayer's "Reign In Blood" - I got a copy of it, and listened, over and over again. I liked it, the music did reach to me, in the same ways I am sure jazz/classical reaches out to people to. So thats how it all started, it sorta snowballed. However as the 90's we coming to a close, I was disillusioned with what was coming out - yes I hate Limp Bizkit/Linkin Park, but that is not to say they are not good (someone, somewhere like them) - but not me.

i dont nessecarily believe that you should always build on whats already there - look at classical music - over 200 years old and still very popular (in fact I am very partial to it myself). I like classical, I like some dance, in fact I like a pretty diverse variety of music, but my favourite genre of music is heavy metal.

i am not saying that music should never progress, it always will - chuck berry/beatles -> led zepplin/black sabbath -> iron maiden/metallica -> and so on

bands like linkin park/limp bizkit, are simply re-hashing whats already done (granted there is a lot of different music styles that do this), but they making so much noise it is very hard to ignore them, but in saying that, they are here for now, and who knows what the future might hold.

what I dont agree with you is

"I agree everyone sould at some stage listen to everything appriciate it for what it is and yes, maybe even like it, and here comes another one, but shouldn't they then go out and build on what they've heard, whats gone b4 it and make something new"

I mean is this implied for fans of the music or the artists themselves (which is a slight contradiction, since most metal bands were/are fans at some point). If it is directed to listeners of the music, I can only offer a simple retort - why change an already good thing?

danbert

Don't listener as bands become the same thing?
I don't see the distinction between the two?