IT/Computer Students

sinus

Whats the differerence between IT/Computing Students and actually computer users?


A Computer User Knows how to use computers!

A Third Year I.T. student of a well known irish university, asked me last week to come and fix her computer as it was after crashing. I asked "what was the last change you made to it?" she replied that she had installed "WINDOWS 2000" on her machine. OK!

I went to her house to check it out.....and low and behold an I.T Student doesnt know the difference between an O.S and an Office Suite! (Office 2000 was installed on her 16mb/P100 machine)

Are these the ppl who are gonna lead Ireland out of the tech sector slump in the near future. I shall hope not!!!

I have been to college and studied in an "I.T" course, but after a year i felt it was a waste of time.....There is no practicals its all book knowledge! and as we all know.....experience counts...you could read all the books in the world but you still dont know the difference between an OS and an Office Suite.....
Yeah i am pee'd off...am i the only one who thinks that??? i know i aint!

Saruman

considering the speed of change in the computer industry, by the time you get out of college everything you have "Learned" is obsolete! In fact by the time you get through one of the books a whole rake of new technology has come out.. not covered in book so student does not know..

leeroybrown

Typical,

Some people doing IT based courses have no idea of computers whatsoever.


I'm sure they stick out a mile at interviews.

yop

Have to agree, there is a big difference between people who can read out of book and sit an exam and those who can actually figure out what to do, develope, fix in the field of work.

Some of the people I went to college with were brilliant in college but have been in the same position for the last 5 years. No practical use to anyone

Saruman

I dont think because someone is in the one position for 5 years is fair. they may just be lazy! If of course they are lamers who know nothing then thats fine.

Anyhow the ammount of people i know who spend time in college and come out with no idea about computers is frightning! I had some guy on the phone today telling me his power button was pushed in but his IT manager somehow managed to blow the PSU trying to get it out? I mean how??? Is it even possible? Not for someone competent.. i actually told him not to let him near the pc again.. he agreed and laughed!

sinus

computers is somthing that i have wanted to do all my life....and the majority of ppl i know in Computer Courses in 3rdLevel are there because
a)they know the money will be good (hate to burst your bubble-have ya seen the markets recently)

b)they dont know what to do with their lives, dont like computers but are only doing the course coz johnny butts their best friend is doing it - as a result of which, ppl who actually desire to do computers as a career, without an alterior (sp?) motive cant get into these over crowded courses!

c)coz they reckon geek is cool (ok so i made that one up myself)

I left college as what i was being though, i felt would serve me no practicallity in the real World at all.....who cares if i dont know how to write a Data flow diagram out lining the software capabilities of flash harrys video shop.....everyone else in the class just got thought the same........
why cant we jump back 20/30 years ago where real genius came from hours alone programming in self thought languages...not a feck 3 year "course" with our heads in a book "how to use a computer for major f**ckin' Irish IT wannabe dummies"

go back to your holes, and study something more for you like ARTS

seamus

Yeah, it's a funny phenomenon, especially in courses where the content is mainly programming based. They tend to teach it in windoze, which requires very little knowledge of the system or OS to run apps. A mate of mine in my course doesn't know how to add attachments to his email ffs, in second year!! What I have learned about computing has been mainly through my own reading on the web or from the college library, or form just experimenting. BUt just remember - no matter how much of a guru you are, you can't possibly know everything, so sometimes leeway has to be made when you start getting technical

EvilGeorge

Ok to be fair I went thorugh 3 years studying comps in college, some of them have a clue of the difference and a bit of troubleshooting etc ... nothing too advanced, but a lot basically dont have a clue , the type of people you would feel sorry for in later life.

EG: A mate of mine got his degree and is a great programmer - I mean good, but the idiot could not deceipher if his kbd or mouse was at fault in some simple testing - nutwit!

azezil

Originally posted by sinus
I left college as what i was being though, i felt would serve me no practicallity in the real World at all.....who cares if i dont know how to write a Data flow diagram out lining the software capabilities of flash harrys video shop.....everyone else in the class just got thought the same........

That's the same excuse we all made
First year, new college, 42 start, 6 pass lol

I droped outta that course for the same reason, and i didn't want to be a "software developer", bored the tit's off me.
Now i'd doin a cert in I.T. support, tiz grand, done 6 months on the job and most of the course material is relivant.

Definitly learned alot more about computers, hardware / software, in six months on this course than i did on the diploma course.

Boston

just think of it this way, if you were to take, everything you know about computers and write it down it would take me anyway, years

leeroybrown

A lot of people do jump on the IT band-wagon because of the money. They end up floating throught college only knowing hwat is necessary to pass their exams. I know loads of people like that.

In fact, i find a lot of the stuff that is done in college is not half as good as it could be. I find myself learning more form other sources most of the time.

Gavin

Originally posted by Saruman
considering the speed of change in the computer industry, by the time you get out of college everything you have "Learned" is obsolete! In fact by the time you get through one of the books a whole rake of new technology has come out.. not covered in book so student does not know..

Bull**** ! We learn how to program effectively, intelligently. We do not learn for example Java, we learn OO programing using Java.

The people that graduate from my course CA DCU I usually have a high respect for. Not necessarily in their Computer/Hardware/Genreal OS usage knowledge but in their programming skills. They are programmers. Why do they need to know what do do when Windows boots into safe mode ? They go get the IT bloke for that. ( Usually the guy that dropped out of college ). Now there's always going to be people that don't know jack and slip through but this is prevalent everywhere.

A lot of people do study computers for the money. What in the hell is wrong with that ?

As for not knowing the difference between an OS and an office suite, you might have a good knowledge of how to work windows/linux/unix whatever. But do you know how to program it ? Do you know what it's doing when you run a program ? Do you know how it allocates resources ?

That is knowing an OS.

Gav

And if i sound like i'm on a high horse, i bloody am. I'm sick of this attitude of people giving out about people doing computers just for money.

Gerry

fair enough verb, I've no problem either with people who can program really well, and don't give a **** about hardware. But what if you can't do anything with computers, after a 4 year course? About half of my class will fall into that category. To get reasonably good with programming normally means that you have to have fair amount of experience actually coding stuff up, and getting it working, so along the way you will pick up a fair bit of knowledge about how an os and how to interface with the hardware. I've no problem with people who are in it just for the money, and who actually do some work. I do have a problem with people who have no interest in computers whatsoever, but don't want to put the effort in to learn, and they still think they will be swimming in cash afterwards.

leeroybrown

I have to agree with Gerry that a large number of the IT graduates that the colleges churn out haven't got much skill as either programmers or with computers in general.

I know loads of people doing IT based courses who are poor programmers, know nothing about software engineering and don't have any general knowledge of computers either. If they want to stick with their courses to get a decent job at the end of it, well fair play to them. Half of them probably put in twice as much work as I do.

Boston

* raises hand slowly* i know how to allocates resources

anyway, fair point verb, but ill have to go to the other extreme, ive met some programers who basically think they are gods on earth for being able to do this stuff.

rymus

Originally posted by leeroybrown
Typical,

Some people doing IT based courses have no idea of computers whatsoever.

Very true. People only used to get into IT courses because it was where the money was (is?). Most of those type of people get frustrated and leave the course before the end tho. Some of them stick to the course, like a guy I used to work with who had a degree in computer science and still didnt know how to perform basic computer tasks.

I suppose what it all comes down to in the end is if ure interested enough in the topic to keep going with the course.

Verb, I hope youre not suggesting that because a person works with hardware / support instead of software that they *must* have dropped out of college

ramius

I would just like to say that I am in my final year of a Diploma in IT, and the reason i did it is because i like computers and want to work with them and alot of businesses wont give you a job unless you have some sort of certificate, the course is very practical based aswell, we set up routers, swithes, oracle databases, unix/linux networks, the college also pays for us to do the CCNA, we also did six months work experience.
A few good points where made above but i think its a bit unfair to genrelise people, if your good your good, if your not your not,

leeroybrown

Well, Its not so much a generalisation but more a case of ignoring the middle ground. There are plenty of people who won't set the world alight with their knowledge and skill but will get on grand. The people being referred to are those who leave the courses with poor skills.

azezil

Originally posted by ramius
I would just like to say that I am in my final year of a Diploma in IT, and the reason i did it is because i like computers and want to work with them and alot of businesses wont give you a job unless you have some sort of certificate, the course is very practical based aswell, we set up routers, swithes, oracle databases, unix/linux networks, the college also pays for us to do the CCNA, we also did six months work experience.
A few good points where made above but i think its a bit unfair to genrelise people, if your good your good, if your not your not,

What course are ya doin? I'm thinkin i might go on and get the diploma but i haven't really looked into where or if i can do it yet.

Bull**** ! We learn how to program effectively, intelligently. We do not learn for example Java, we learn OO programing using Java.

I agree with you there Verb...after doing such a course, a programmer is well able to take on other languages, using one language as a starting point...in this case Java.
I hate this feeling among people who feel that such a course is ****e! A decent programmer knows his stuff, after reading books, he knows how to program.

There's a difference between people who can read a book and "try" to program...or there's people who read a programming book...think about it...and understand the underlying logic behind it all...anyone can read a book, it takes a programming mind to understand what the **** is going on!!!

And yes, so what if people do it for money???
I myself love computers, using them, programming them, taking them apart and learning about what makes them tick!
It's one thing installing windows (stick in the cd and WHAM! there you go!!) but it's another thing knowing what the heck virtual memory is and what purpose it has within the computer system, knowing what compilers generate and how they do it, knowing how many clock cycles certain instructions do and indeed, knowing what the hell a processor instruction set IS!!!

you get a lot of people doing it for money, they usually do well but they never have the full interest needed to be good...but just because you go to college to do a course in programming, doesn't mean that it's not as good as "self-taught" programmers...that's just using the college as an excuse...if you like it and want to learn it, then you'll go ahead yourself and do things yourself...instead of waiting for lecturers telling what to do!!!

It doesn't matter what course you're in, where you go, if you like what you're doing you'll feel the need to do more and go further...to those who say college programming courses are not as good as doing things yourself...BULL****!! Courses give you an understanding of things that one will often find harder to pick up from a book...at least you can ask lecturers for help and they can explain what you're doing and why!

Saruman

Sorry Vertb, was not refferring to Programmers.. they are a different breed.. i was complaining about so called IT professionals, computer Engineers etc who only have a computer degree of some sort behind them but its only a piece of paper and they dont understand computers.. like the one i explained where he blew the psu.. Just them not programmers.

MerRua

In computer systems in limerick, we use redhat.*grin* so not all universitys are having a love affair my bill gates.

quozl

Originally posted by Saruman
Sorry Vertb, was not refferring to Programmers.. they are a different breed.. i was complaining about so called IT professionals, computer Engineers etc who only have a computer degree of some sort behind them but its only a piece of paper and they dont understand computers.. like the one i explained where he blew the psu.. Just them not programmers.

quozl

Originally posted by Sinus
Are these the ppl who are gonna lead Ireland out of the tech sector slump in the near future. I shall hope not!!!
Yeah i am pee'd off...am i the only one who thinks that??? i know i aint!

I'm a computer engineer. And you my friend, are talking through your arse.
So far, thanks to my joke course. I've been the systems and network administrator for a fabless IC design company worth over 30 million dollars. (massana inc.), I've worked as a linux software developer for an irish company which launched its first product last september (a 10 grand, load balancer, firewall, network monitor 1U rack mountable box of goodness), I've learnt to program OO, functional and structured programming languages.
And thanks to this grounding, theres no programming language I cant pick up enough of in a day to complete a reasonably large project.
As for not knowing computers? Hardly. We all had to build a complete computer in 3rd year. Not from components bought from some trade shop but using a 68000 chip, programable logic arrays for generating address, bus, timing signals etc. We had to design all the logic, and even write the monitor (as basic OS), oh and solder it all together.
This comes across as my cv, but I wanted to show just how stupid your statement was. Sweeping absurd generalisations annoy me.
quozl

logic1

Originally posted by quozl


As for not knowing computers? Hardly. We all had to build a complete computer in 3rd year.
quozl

Does that mean you've three of them sitting about Greg

.logic.

logic1

I did a computer course in WIT and out of 33 starting places 6 of us graduated. To say all computer students/graduates are idiots is well.. idiocy.

In every course you're going to get people who can learn all the course content and pass the exams but are unable to apply that knowledge in real life situations. It's simply a factof life. That's why we have experts the very fact that not everyone can attain such a high level of understanding in a given subject.

This thread so far has been full of sweeping generalisations and ignorance.

The simply truth is every course and every subject in life will have people who are very good and people who are not so good. Just because you dropped out of college and now feel bitter for being a qualification-less nobody doesn't mean you have to take out your anger on us superior humans.

.logic.

astrofool

doesn't mean you have to take out your anger on us superior humans.

i think you got your level of to be superior grievously wrong .logic.

logic1

Originally posted by astrofool


i think you got your level of to be superior grievously wrong .logic.

If any of that was in English I'd waste no time in pening a witty retort to you.

.logic.

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by sinus
i dont know how to write a Data flow diagram out lining the software capabilities of flash harrys video shop

rofl - DFDs Where did you study? 1982?

No one suggests that you learn everything in college. The course has a syllabus and you learn that. Anything outside that, apply for a different course.

In my course, several people in first year had never seen a computer before! :eek: I mean wtf were they doing in a computer science degree if they've no clue what a computer is? Answer : They're there for the money. Not something I'd agree with but fair enough.

Of course there was the muppet who still couldn't use email in second year.......

GoneShootin

its really all downt to the individual student. if they wish to just take whats given to them in class [lets say one with heavy programming conent], then they would not see outside the Compiler

its the students choice to learn more about the computer they are using.

quozl

Originally posted by logic1


Does that mean you've three of them sitting about Greg

.logic.

Bastard!
quozl