Dublin Corporation Waste Charges

The_Bullman

Just wondering if i do have to pay these as i havn't got a bin yet.

I am living in appartments and we have to pay a management company money for common area cleaning and the like and also for our rubbish(2 big skips).

since i am already paying money for rubbish should i have to pay it again to the Corporation. Personally i wouldn't mind paying, but not for something that I have already payed for. At the moment they are threatening legal action so i am scared of having to pay "interest" and the legal fees also.

More to the point why should i pay if I (also all the other appartment people) don't have the different coloured bins.

The Sweeper

Be selfish, don't pay it. I personally think there's too much of a row over it - there are whole streets of people refusing to pay for it. If you do pay, you'll discover you're one of the only ones. I'd hold off until they establish the rules - either everybody pays it, or they scrap the charge. They wont chase you for the money if you don't pay it anyway - there are too many others not paying it as well.

The last place I rented, I paid the charges, discovered I was practically the only one who had, and cancelled the second installment. Plus the property management company who managed the estate sent around a note to say they'd contacted the council and refused the green recycling bins and brown compost bins on our behalf because there was no room in the driveways to store them. 'Sod that', said I, and cancelled the cheque...

Typedef

No room the the driveways to store it?
Oh god what is this country coming to, I suppose people would rather have mega-dumps where all of our waste gets perpetually heaped into rather than recycle it, shock horror people actually have to make some effort in order to recycle.

I think that everyone should be obliged to pay for the recycle bins and that the bins should be mandatory. The bottom line is that the environment is in trouble because of mans mistreatment of it, now instead of trying to shirk responsibility for it's damage and repair, people must take responsibility for their actions and not only recycle their waste but pay for it too. People seem to find the money for cigarettes and drink handy enough, so I don't accept the arugment that says "oh I don't have the money", find the money, it's not just your own back yard you are polluting, but mine and everyone else's too.

The_Bullman

Fair enough Typedef, but I would be paying for nothing.

I would pay if the bins where supplied but not before then.

Boston

bin or no bin, im never paying for it

NeRb666

I pay PAYE, PRSI, VAT, VRT, road tax, Customs & Excise on smokes and beer, countless other taxes. They can go **** themselves if they think they can squeeze more out of me.

pugwall

NeRb666 & Minesajackdaniels
Its muppets the same attitude to you two that has this country in the dire state that it is in. The streets of Dublin, the whole country for that matter are disgraceful.
I think thatanyone who doesn't pay the charges should be imprisoned and black listed for credit in the future due to their selfish attitudes. They create the rubbish through their own consumption and should have to pay to have it taken away.

:mad:

gurramok

errr...Pugwall u flamer !...reason we have very high taxes in the first place is to pay for the environmental waste, it was back in the 80s when the gov put up the PAYE tax to pay for bin collection, hence this new tax is double taxation.
btw, i never payed neither has about 95% of 300 odd households in the housing estate where i live(stat from local housing association), i have no intention to pay, either they scrap the bin tax or reduce PAYE to their previous levels(highly unlikely gov would do it)

I can afford the tax(lucky me ), its on a point of principle that i dont pay.

EL_Diablo

Well I'm not paying either. One reason is that I was never asked if I wanted bin and I'm sure no one else was either. I just woke up one morning to find a big grey bin had been plonked in my garden. So they give me this bin that I never asked for and then expect me to pay for it!?!? I was quite happy to leave my bags out and not pay anything. If a mail order company sends you something you don't ask for you don't have to pay for it and you get to keep it so i don't see why the corporation have the right to do it. Plus there was a ruling in some European court that they can't stop collecting the bins for non payment but they can take legal action to get the money. Are they really going to take a couple of thousand people to court seperately? Can't imagine they would. And to top it all off the binmen still have the cheek to knock at my door for their "Christmas bonus"!!!!! So I told them where they can stick their bonus.

pugwall

it was back in the 80s when the gov put up the PAYE tax to pay for bin collection, hence this new tax is double taxation.

The PAYE tax rates have been slashed dramatically since the 80s. Now thats pretty obvious:p You dont make any sense.

gurramok

The PAYE tax rates have been slashed dramatically since the 80s

slashed ?...thats definietly OTT, whatever tax has gone down, u are guaranteed something elsewhere would go up in its place....VAT and VRT rate comes to mind.
mayb u have a short memory, in the bad old times of the 80s(i am 27 & flippin good memory ), paye tax was raised as well as VAT to pay for but not exclusively for bin charges....others were for ex: water(remember that tax?) health, education....etc
alot of hardship was experienced back then, reason i mention this is the gov think that they can introduce this double tax while we are in good economic times.
It all makes sense at this keyboard

Moriarty

Originally posted by NeRb666
I pay PAYE, PRSI, VAT, VRT, road tax, Customs & Excise on smokes and beer, countless other taxes. They can go **** themselves if they think they can squeeze more out of me.

And the rest of the country dont pay any of this, so its ok for them to be charged for the disposal of their waste? Get a grip.. Everyone else in the country has to pay for it, anyone who lives in dublin should be no different.

Typedef

bin or no bin, im never paying for it

Great that's a really open minded attitude.

Well I'm not paying either. One reason is that I was never asked if I wanted bin and I'm sure no one else was either. I just woke up one morning to find a big grey bin had been plonked in my garden. So they give me this bin that I never asked for and then expect me to pay for it!?!?

I was never asked if I wanted to pay tax for sewerage but I still have to. If you make waste then you should pick up after yourself or to put it another way pay to have it dealt with. You people seem to have decided that you aren't going to pay a tax for that 'tree-hugging' mumbo jumbo and are then finding reasons to rationalise your decision.
Sure troll on about how you will never pay the tax, and don't give a reason, let your selves down, but when your own lethargy starts to impact on 'our' shared environment then your indolence becomes my problem , everyone's problem.
The problem won't go away just because you decide to bury your head in the Sand and say, "If I leave my head here long enough the ozone layer will fix itself". Here's a newsflash it aint so. Using less fossil fuel's will help placate global warming and getting rid of that 10 year old fridge that is gurgling out cfc's by the metric pound will actually help the ozone layer. So the logic follows, recycling will 1. Reduce the need to exploit non-renewable sources of consumables 2. Reduce the size and scope of rubbish tips 3. Allow you to contribute in a real way to fixing the moutain of garbage created by the throw away society.

I was quite happy to leave my bags out and not pay anything. If a mail order company sends you something you don't ask for you don't have to pay for it and you get to keep it so i don't see why the corporation have the right to do it.

Tell me something, do you honestly believe that because you didn't ask to be responsible for recycling your wastes you should be exempt? I didn't ask to be included 'specifically' in laws governing imbezzlement so does that mean I can embezzel monies? Better not answer that you might find yourself seperating plastic and tin and paper and paying your enivronmental taxes.

I find it quite embarresing that Irish people can be so beligerant about doing their duty as regards contributing to the protection of the environment, when compaired to the Swiss, Germans and Scandanavians it really makes some of the posts here seem quite ignorant and ludicrously self centered. The bottom line is lads you don't have to pay any tax, go ahead and get your selves a cabin in the woods and a sturdy shotgun. Next proclaim a republic where you can pollute as you see fit, and shoot at any 'federal' government type coming to try and make you pay your taxes or grow up and stop whinging about doing your civic duty and actually contributing to the state instead of always expecting to get something for nothing out of it.

pugwall

The rates are presently 42% & 20%. In the 80's the highest rate was over 70%. I cant remember the exact figure. It could have even been closer to 80%. (Can anyone check that out for me?)
Is severly cut better?

gurramok

Everyone else in the country has to pay for it, anyone who lives in dublin should be no different.

There is non-payment in Cork, Limerick and Drogheda as well, mayb more ppl are waking up to this irish version of the poll tax ?

Moriarty

Originally posted by gurramok


There is non-payment in Cork, Limerick and Drogheda as well, mayb more ppl are waking up to this irish version of the poll tax ?

Im in Limerick, and everyone is still paying their waste charges.. Anyone who dosent is self-centred, narrow-minded and short sighted.

gurramok

Originally posted by Typedef
Tell me something, do you honestly believe that because you didn't ask to be responsible for recycling your wastes you should be exempt? I didn't ask to be included 'specifically' in laws governing imbezzlement so does that mean I can embezzel monies? Better not answer that you might find yourself seperating plastic and tin and paper and paying your enivronmental taxes.

The non-payment is a tax issue and not a green issue as u imply.
I for one have no problem caring for the environment, the bins are welcome, and yes other countries do recycle alot, its not the ppl's fault that the environment waste strategy has been arseways up to now!
The point is that these environmental services are already been payed for through direct or indirect taxes.

Moriarty

Originally posted by gurramok
The point is that these environmental services are already been payed for through direct or indirect taxes.

And so is everything else that is getting public money. Where do you propose they cut expenditure so they can cover the cost of disposing of selfish peoples waste?

gurramok

Originally posted by Moriarty

And so is everything else that is getting public money. Where do you propose they cut expenditure so they can cover the cost of disposing of selfish peoples waste?

Haven't they managed for nearly 20 years covering the cost of waste disposal thru all the taxes we pay ?

btw u mention selfish ppl....the overwhelming majority of waste produced in this country is produced by industry, big business and large-scale agriculture while only a small fraction is produced by domestic householders, the paye workers pay most tax yet pollute the least.

Moriarty

Originally posted by gurramok
Haven't they managed for nearly 20 years covering the cost of waste disposal thru all the taxes we pay ?

Waste disposal is getting more expensive, and more money also needs to be spent in other areas, such as general infrastructure. The rest of the country has no gotten away with not having to pay for their waste.

Originally posted by gurramok
btw u mention selfish ppl....the overwhelming majority of waste produced in this country is produced by industry, big business and large-scale agriculture while only a small fraction is produced by domestic householders, the paye workers pay most tax yet pollute the least.

Business pays their way, and anyway this is a different argument, concerning policys on taxation of business.

NeRb666

Originally posted by pugwall
NeRb666 & Minesajackdaniels
Its muppets the same attitude to you two that has this country in the dire state that it is in. The streets of Dublin, the whole country for that matter are disgraceful.
I think thatanyone who doesn't pay the charges should be imprisoned and black listed for credit in the future due to their selfish attitudes. They create the rubbish through their own consumption and should have to pay to have it taken away.

:mad:

Refusing to pay yet anther form of taxation does not make me a litter bug.

Don't label me selfish because you are stupid enough to sit around and let the government impose more taxes on us.

The waste disposal situation in this country is in the dire state it is because successive goverment's have had their heads up their arses for decades.

So go ahead and imprison me.

NeRb666

Originally posted by Moriarty

And the rest of the country dont pay any of this, so its ok for them to be charged for the disposal of their waste? Get a grip.. Everyone else in the country has to pay for it, anyone who lives in dublin should be no different.

If the rest of the country choose to pay, then that's their problem. No household should have to pay for a basic service like this.

Moriarty

Originally posted by NeRb666
If the rest of the country choose to pay, then that's their problem. No household should have to pay for a basic service like this.

What planet are you living on? Are you for real!?

gurramok

Originally posted by Moriarty

What planet are you living on? Are you for real!?

judging by your reaction, do u reckon all basic services that are paid already by the taxpayer should have a service charge like the present refuse charge and the water charge of the past ??
y not have a health, education, garda, defence double tax as well ??
The road tax which is supposed to pay for infrastructure already has a twin, its called VRT tax.

pugwall

NeRb666;

Don't label me selfish because you are stupid enough to sit around and let the government impose more taxes on us.

Im labeling you as selfish as you are refusing to take responsibility for your actions which have negitive effects on others ie ME and everyone else.
I just believe in the polluter pays principal. If the service is free then people will take advantage of it and the take up on recycling will be extremely low as it is presently.

The waste disposal situation in this country is in the dire state it is because successive goverment's have had their heads up their arses for decades.

They are now doing something about it. They are tackeling the problem at its root: the polluters themselves.

pugwall

y not have a health, education, garda, defence double tax as well ??

gurramok you clown
Household waste causes a NEGATIVE EFFECT on society:o

THATS WHY AS YOU SAY 'DOUBLE TAX' IT!

Health, education, Gardai, defence: POSITIVE EFFECTS.

Get it?:D

gurramok

They are now doing something about it. They are tackeling the problem at its root: the polluters themselves.

ePugwall...polluter pays, fine....but who pollutes most ??
by your argument u imply that the household pollutes most...not true !

The reason y we have a waste crisis(esp. in Dublin) is the nearly non-existence of re-cycling intiatives over many years, all the waste was thrown on landfills. It is not the householder who produces the majority of waste !

Household waste causes a NEGATIVE EFFECT on society

that has always been the case, who likes to see ugly piles of waste anyway?, as i said b4, the point of refusing to pay this double tax is not my selfishness, but the responsibility of gov/corpo to use the taxes that i pay already and raised too often(too many taxes to list) to implement a waste strategy modelled on other countries. Now the gov is being forced to do so by the EU to implement more re-cycling, the sight and use of the recycling bins are welcome in my view, the conflict arises of who should pay for it, in this case the taxpayer is being forced(not asked) to pay for services already paid for.

Tazz T

If ppl give in and pay this tax, it will, as happened with poll tax/council tax in the UK, go up by frightening amounts - well in excess of inflation each year. When I left London my council tax was the equivalent of 25% of my mortgage. It increased on average 10% each year. The only benefit I saw of this exhorbitant tax was someone coming to take away my rubbish.

Typedef

Originally posted by Tazz T
If ppl give in and pay this tax, it will, as happened with poll tax/council tax in the UK, go up by frightening amounts - well in excess of inflation each year. When I left London my council tax was the equivalent of 25% of my mortgage. It increased on average 10% each year. The only benefit I saw of this exhorbitant tax was someone coming to take away my rubbish.

Tazz there is actually a blatant hole in your logic, you are attempting to draw an analogy between the poll tax in the UK and the bin tax in Ireland and thus imply that the bin tax will go up becuase the poll tax went up when in reality there is no connection between the two. Or to put it simply as the two are not connected, just because the poll tax was put up does not mean the bin tax will be put up.
QED as you have no proof.

Also for those of you who are claiming that you don't pay special Garda taxs I would point out that you do pay VAT, you do pay road tax and I would ask what right you have to decide which taxes you should and should not have to pay? I resent having to pay road tax with the roads on the north side of Dublin city so poorly maintained when compaired to the South side (which erks me more because I pay the same amount of tax), but if everyone on the north side of the city decided that they didn't really think it was fair to pay their road tax because "Trucks cause most of the maintenance" then the road infrastructure would simply collapse. The same argument applies to the bin tax, without it, it would not be possible to recycle properly, so unless you think that this lexicon of environmental issues is some kind of liberal plot to defraud you of your money I suggest you do your duty to the state and pay up.

It saddens me to notice how my fellow citizens can mistreat the streets so , just the other day a neighbour of mine had allowed two bags of rubbish that had burst to sit on his steps of two days running, and this on a street mostly comprised of Victorian and Georgian buildings, what do foreigners think of Ireland and the Irish when they see things like this? This was just off of Dorset street on a main road to the airport by the way, it points to an endemic ignorance of environmental issues of most Dubliners and also points to the contempt Dubliners have for this city (which is one of the oldest cities in Europe), therefore it is not really surprising that the same Dubliners refuse to pay their bin taxes en-masse, sure why do that when they can simply dump their rubbish onto the front doorstep and leave it for 'someone else' to take care of?

gurramok

Tazz analogy is correct, bin tax is unjust and unfair like the poll tax was in uk. How do u know that the tax will not go up in price ??

Typedef, by your logic in your post, u imply that the gov/council have a right to impose any tax they want for any purpose y not have an oxygen tax as well ?!:)

The same argument applies to the bin tax, without it, it would not be possible to recycle properly, so unless you think that this lexicon of environmental issues is some kind of liberal plot to defraud you of your money I suggest you do your duty to the state and pay up.

errr...come again ??, how do u come to the conclusion that without the bin tax it would not be possible to recycle properly ??
Any extra costs that are incurred by recycling are paid for by direct and indirect taxes already thus no need for this type of tax.

As for road taxes, by your analogy with the bin tax, not everyone pays road tax the vehicle owners do.
By all means educate the public about waste disposal and recycling but the blame & cost for lack of implementation of these intiatives lays with the mismanagement of our tax euros by successive govts, not the householder who pollutes the least.

The_Bullman

I appreciate the arguement that has sprung up around the bin charges but my question is the same.

Do I have to pay the bin charges even tough I don't have a bin?

Boston

Typedef im not going to argue with you, i shoudlnt have to pay for somethign if i dont want it. and im not payign for this.

Btw that paye statement someone made, the rate of paye has been cut, but the revenue from paya has been encreasing year in year out

Boston

Originally posted by The_Bullman
I appreciate the arguement that has sprung up around the bin charges but my question is the same.

Do I have to pay the bin charges even tough I don't have a bin?

i think the questions been answered, you dont have to pay anything you dont want to

Typedef

Errm no Boston until you run the government and set the taxes you can't make a statement like that. I don't want to pay my road tax but if I don't the Gardai will impound my motorcycle therefore if I want use of my motorcycle I must pay my road tax. So no you don't have to pay the tax, but if you don't there will be consequences just like not paying any other tax, so I think what you are saying is a little misleading.

Your answer is not what the government think and at the end of the day they have the Gardai and the courts to back them up, so you can say "Oh because I don't want to pay it I don't have to", but that is simply lipservice because the reality is that you have to pay your taxes or else the government come after you about it, of course if you don't have a bin you don't have to pay the tax, however if you are in the bin tax area then you do as your bin is probably on it's way, seems entirely logical to be faily honest.

Tazz analogy is correct, bin tax is unjust and unfair like the poll tax was in uk. How do u know that the tax will not go up in price ??

Typedef, by your logic in your post, u imply that the gov/council have a right to impose any tax they want for any purpose y not have an oxygen tax as well ?!

No because you may define the tax as 'unjust' wether it be unjust or not and the poll tax in the UK as being 'unjust' does not mean that the government will increase the bin tax. You have made no connection between the two other than your claim that both were/are unjust but seeing as how I have yet to 'visibly have evidence' of the injustice of the bin tax (quite the contrary I think the bin's should be city wide and there should be lots more of them) I don't accept your basic premis that the bin tax is unjust therefore I don't accept the connection between the bin tax and the poll tax and therefore I don't accept that by the criteria you have specified that the bin tax will increase. QED.

Here is the flaw in your logic.
You are saying
p and q = w
x and y = w
p and q and b
therefore x and y and b.

When the statement should read something like this
p and q and n and d and soon = w. //Given the poll tax was unjust
x and y = w if x and y and s and t and q and e and v. //Given you can't prove that the bin tax is unjust
Therefore you could say p and q and n and d and soon but only after you prove w which I don't think you have. Therefore your logic is flawed, deal with it and move on, pay your taxes and don't be a muppet, this is not a huge logical leap nor conundrum.
QED

Here is some more logical reasoning that proves you are talking nonesense and should pay your taxes http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html .
Muchos Gracias.

Boston

Bin collection tax will continue to rise, fopr the simple reason its been in the country for years and year in year out it continues to rise, the same arguments you use for having this fee can be used again to encrease the fee.

your being very naive

Also, your comment on the garadi, do you really think, any goverment department is going to send in the gardi to arrest anyone over this issue just before an up coming elect, i dont.

and they will be slow, in my area at least to do so after, because the voting is going to to be very evenly spread out.

Typedef

Why are you being so needlessly beligerant?
Simply do your duty and help pay for the recycling that is enivatable.

Funnily enough yes if I am obliged to pay my taxes when I don't want to you should be the same, why should you not have to pay taxes that you don't feel like paying, who made you exempt?

You can choose not to pay the tax, but I would expect that the government require you to pay your bin tax the same way they require me to pay my road tax, unless you can think of some reason why I should have to pay taxes I don't want to and you don't.

Boston

tell me do you know anything about taxation.

taxation must be equitable and certain, bin charges are not

You talk to me about dutty, you have zero right to talk to me about dutty, i dear say i put more back into my community then the bureaucrats that came up with this stupid taxation

Simple reason why bin taxation is different to road or other tax, the goverment has an obligation to provide adequate refuse collection to all citizens. The fact that you are taxed on that, means that it can be taken away from you which is a unconstitutional.

It is one thing, to be in the country were these services are less then in a town or city, it is quiet another to be in a town or city and refused them.

I dont care ill start dumping on public ground rather then pay this fee, its a matter of principle.

And btw, they will have the system were you get a license that you put on you bin to show you paid, isnt that nice, it works in the country because theres feic all around, i liek to see how well it works when kids on the way to school start ripping them off, of thiefs nick them to sell them on.

NeRb666

Originally posted by pugwall
NeRb666;


They are now doing something about it. They are tackeling the problem at its root: the polluters themselves.

Once again they are tackling problems 30 years too late. Why are there no plastic recycling facilities here? Do you think bin tax is going to advance the cause of waste reduction? Or will it just get thrown into trying to solve the crisis without having any real strategy... (example: the health service). Don't get me wrong, I do understand what you are saying; the waste situation in this country is ridiculous and it needs to be sorted out, but forcing people to pay is not the answer.

(edit: spelling error)

Typedef

Actually the government is 'not' constitutionally obliged to provide services such as waste collection and for example water. If it were then the people in rural areas who have to buy water would have their constitutional rights infringed on, ergo seeing as how it is not the case that some rural dwelling people have taken action to redress this constitutional infringement I would say the providing utilities is not encumbant on the government anywhere in the constitution.

So if taxation must be equitable and certain then should people simply refuse to pay taxes on cigarettes? Perhaps if enough people refused to pay these taxes because they were "unequitable" then the government would simply see the light and abolish the taxes?

I dont care ill start dumping on public ground rather then pay this fee, its a matter of principle.

So you believe it is more principaled to dump your household waste onto publicy owned state property then to pay your tax to have the waste recycled? This does not seem to be any opinion derived from principal but rather dictated by your financial predicament and unwillingness to pay for a "tree hugger" tax.

Everyone in the state pays taxes that go towards the Gardai and a whole range of public services, now the recycling tax could be taken out of public coffers, but why should a select few people get a disproportionate amount of public money to have their waste treated in recycling plants when currencly only a select few South Side locations in Dublin can even have their waste recycled, in effect these non-tax paying people are asking for a hand out from the rest ot the tax payers when it comes to treating their rubbish.

Someone give me a good reason why the tax I pay should go towards a recycling scheme that I can't avail of because the privileged few people who can recycle via government schemes refuse to pay their way?

Boston

your talking ****e, and being extremely naive, we will see which one of us is right 3 years from now, when the fees have tripled and theres still dumping in open land fills

Typedef

Perhaps if in the recycle scheme people did actually pay their tax the government would be more willing to implement recycling schemes around the city, can you blame them for not wanting to have to pay for what 1.5/1.7 million peoples recycling costs when a large portion the few thousand privileged people who have it now refuse to pay for it?

To implement recycling more widely in such a climate the government would have to simply take the costs of recycling out of the national coffers and thus would have to tax people more and would have to make recycling available to the entire nation, which I support, but refusing to pay your tax will not spur the government to introduce recycling more widely ergo not paying the tax for services you use will only be damagaing to those services.

So it's a kind of catch 22 or a self fulfilling prophecy, I say if you pay your bin tax the government will be more inclined to introduce recycling on a wide scale, however people seem to counter with the retort "we will still be using landfills in a few years", of course we will because seeing as how citizens expect to get a hand out for the recycling and refuse to pay tax for it the government won't have the money to implement it, so you are in effect fulfilling your own prophecy so it is not a very telling prophecy more of a statement of the consequences of what you intend to do or not to do as the case may be.

Boston

do you actually read what you type,

your trying to tell me, its because people dont pay taxs that the goverments is a total **** up

Boston

heres a sollution, recycling is free, dumping cost you.

do you not feel like a sheep, 'here you go spend your time sorting through your rubbish into nice bins, take on board the extra hassel of managing 3 bins at once, and we will only charge you 70 pounds a year, forgot the euro thats 150 euro a year, o i forgot vat is going up 1% thats 200 euro a year.

what are you complaining about thats less then 50 cent aday, who cant aford 50cent a day?

I hate the tactics these people use toget you to pay, and i hate the stupidity at which they go about convincing people.

If someone came to me door threating me, demanding money, believe me it wouldnt be pretty.

Victor

Originally posted by pugwall
The rates are presently 42% & 20%. In the 80's the highest rate was over 70%. I cant remember the exact figure. It could have even been closer to 80%. (Can anyone check that out for me?)

To be fair, I think the highest rate was about 65%, however people on lower incomes were paying full PRSI, e.g. in 1991 when I earned £100 per week I was paying £7.75 in PRSI. And I thinkt he highest VAT rate was 35%.

gurramok

Originally posted by Typedef

Someone give me a good reason why the tax I pay should go towards a recycling scheme that I can't avail of because the privileged few people who can recycle via government schemes refuse to pay their way?

err, u muppet, u seem to have a short memory, paye/vat and nearly every other tax rate rocketed in the 80s & 90s to pay for refuse/water charges in areas where there was no charges implemented.

ie, do i have to spell it out to u ???
we are paying for the recycling service already without the need for this extra tax, this tax is nothing to do with recycling as such, it is a tax to grab more money of the ordinary dude in the street.
The only reason for the spur of recycling intiatives now is pressure from the EU.

pugwall

Gurramok, ya clown. We've been through this before. Read the full thread and youll soon find out that the taxes you talk about were severly cut.
I know im repeating myself but maybe if you see it enough times you may begin to comprehend what i am saying; Taxes increased in the 80s & fell in the 90s and 00s!

paye/vat and nearly every other tax rate rocketed in the 80s & 90s to pay for refuse/water charges in areas where there was no charges implemented.

The costs associated with refuse & water were the least of the governments worries in the 80s. Public finances were in a state of what some people thought beyond repair. Hence the rise in tax
:eek:

Tazz T

Haven't other countries got recycling schemes that actually make a profit? Like making methane gas at landfill sites. recycling paper and other materials and selling them on to companies to use again. Now, a sensible government would already have the money to invest in such 'green' policies without having to resort to an additional tax.

And I'd be interested to see what proportion of the tax goes on admin?

Typedef

do you actually read what you type

Rumor has it, though it has to be said even some of the more senior members and shock horror moderators have been known to digress to muppetry and extremely incoherent posts (shrug).

Originally posted by gurramok
err, u muppet, u seem to have a short memory, paye/vat and nearly every other tax rate rocketed in the 80s & 90s to pay for refuse/water charges in areas where there was no charges implemented.

ie, do i have to spell it out to u ???[/B]

Ermm excsue me pal but if you can't mount a decent retort to my arguments at least don't denigrate your own by attacking me personally perhaps when you have been posting here longer you will find out that personal attacks are taboo.

But seeing as how we are into the mud slinging mode let me digress also, u is not a recognised word you mean to say you, if and when you manage to get such basic simple words spelled correctly when you post I will consider debating with you not until then because the axiom is

Never argue with an idot, because they will drag you down to their level where they beat you with experience

Thank you call again.

gurramok

The costs associated with refuse & water were the least of the governments worries in the 80s. Public finances were in a state of what some people thought beyond repair. Hence the rise in tax

so by your logic, u say that we are all now rolling in money that we can pay any tax that is imposed ??...u reckon taxes are now severely cut...direct ones mayb, not indirect...as always when tax is cut in one area, it rises in another !
whose fault was it that public finances were so bad back then?
u guessed it, mismanagement by successive govts, not the taxpayer!
as always when things go bad, the taxpayer picks up the tab.
This tax has nothing to do with increasing recyling, it is a tax on householders, the ones who actually pollute the least.
btw, on a side note...there seems to be always €millions available for the bertie bowl, gaa in croke park, tribunals among others not to mention the €12,000 rise awarded to tds not so long ago !...my point, the money is there for proper waste management already from normal tax collection without having to resort to addiional taxes.

gurramok

Originally posted by Typedef

Ermm excsue me pal but if you can't mount a decent retort to my arguments at least don't denigrate your own by attacking me personally perhaps when you have been posting here longer you will find out that personal attacks are taboo

personal attacks?...this is what u wrote earlier

Therefore you could say p and q and n and d and soon but only after you prove w which I don't think you have. Therefore your logic is flawed, deal with it and move on, pay your taxes and don't be a muppet, this is not a huge logical leap nor conundrum.

.........

Ermm excsue me pal but if you can't mount a decent retort to my arguments at least don't denigrate your own by attacking me personally perhaps when you have been posting here longer you will find out that personal attacks are taboo.

i have spelling prob ?...oh sorry for spelling you as u....plz forgive me
as for decent retort to your arguments, that has been done already

pugwall

my point, the money is there for proper waste management already from normal tax collection without having to resort to addiional taxes.

The fact of the matter is that we have a severe refuse problem in the state. Charging people directly for their refuse collection passes the responsibility back to the people who are at the root of the problem. Before any direct charges were introduced the problem didn't go away. This wont solve the problem, but its a start. Its high time all of us take responsibility for our actions.