15¢ per plastic bag

Yoda

I'm not against this per se, though I think the price at 15¢ is a bit excessive.

I am absolutely astonished that something like this is implemented, while there remains no deposit on aluminium and glass beverage containers, as there is in a number of states in the US, in Norway, and goodness knows where else.

I'm wondering where I can get a nice convenient cotton bag that doesn't look idiotic and doesn't act as an advert for some chain of supermarkets...

mike65

15c seems fine to me, on a weekly shop that'll add around
€2 to the bill so a preety big sum could be raised for the associated enviromental works programme.

As for your bag, I'd say almost all the large eco-friendly
healthfood type shops would have a selection for sale.
Mind, they proberly have hippie slogans festooned on them.

Mike

Boston

Im totaly for it, in facti think it should be more, business are the bigest pollutors by far

tiny o grady

Wel l I am disgusted to see some businesses trying to make a quick buck where they can. For eg I know a shop where they are charging 25c for each bag.

What a cheek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the bags should retail at 10c at least thats an even figure.

GoneShootin

i think its great that your shop in question is charging so much. they must be very eco friendlu

or just mean moffos

Yoda

Boston typed
Im totaly for it, in facti think it should be more, business are the bigest pollutors by far

This tax is aimed at the consumer, to try to teach him or her not to litter, apparently.

Lenny

One of the reason why it is quite high for a plastic bag is because oyu know those "bags for life" that shops do sell for 15cent, well it is to encourage people to use those bigger bags, I for one will be watching on how much bags I will use.. well, not relaly as Irarely do shopping

But like, what about other things, I use a shopping bag to scoop up my dogs shíte, so its gona cost me to get his **** uptogether, yet another excuse for me not to clean it up

Boston

yes i know that, but who provides the greatest number of bags?

Lenny

Yoda, its deffo cent, as their is no plural for the euro or cent, but they just aggreed that it is OK to say euros and cents.

Yoda

I had written to OJ that he ought to have written "15 cents" not "15 cent".

Originally posted by OJ
Yoda, its deffo cent, as there is no plural for the euro or cent, but they just aggreed that it is OK to say euros and cents.

Um, "they"?

What you are saying simply isn't true. France, Spain, Portugal, and Finland all use plurals quite naturally. Ireland made a mistake interpreting some of the legislation and now we are in a quandary where half the population is speaking English naturally, and the other half is parrotting McCreevy's Budget Day speech, while the news media and advertising are pummelling us with atrocious grammar and it is both offensive and sociolinguistically dangerous.

This, however, is not the forum for discussion of my campaign to get this change. Please see the thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40536 if you are want to know more.

In the meantime, know that the European Commission's Translation Service is horrified to hear about what is going on in Ireland and are themselves using "euros and cents" as much as they can.

Typedef

The phonetic/etymological implications needless to say are large and important......

Personally I welcome the introduction of a tax on plastic bags as Irish people use some 300 bags perperson per year or
300 * 4,000,000 = 1200000000 plastic bags per year. When you consider that under 20 % of the 10 % of waste that does not end up in landfills in this country is recycled, I think a pretty plausable and logically environmentaly friendly case can be made for €.15 tax on plastic bags.

In fact truth be told I would myself support a much greater tax on plastic bags as people quite readily seem willing to consume these things and throw them away en masse without the slightest concern for the impact of doing this sort of thing has on 'our shared environment'.

Perhaps it would be an idea to have the supermarkets and other types of retail outlets that supply the majority of these platic bags to pay to have them collected and recycled. Clearly the tax payer cannot be expected to indefinitely foot the entirety of the bill as the waste is not entirely of thier making.

Still I think it would be midly entertaining to see if people will refuse to "pay this unjust tax" when the supermarket asks for their €.15 cent pound of flesh.

"1.21 Gigawatts..... 1.21 Gigawatts.... Great Scott"

pugwall

I agree with the charge although it coild be higher. Its high time that the polluter takes responsibilities for their actions both directly and indirectly.

rish people use some 300 bags perperson per year or
300 * 4,000,000 = 1200000000 plastic bags per year

This is disgraceful. Hopefully this charge will increase the take up on the larger lifetime bags.

scuzzy

Great idea. I think Switzerland already have a 25c levy on shopping bags, so we're getting off kinda light. Personally I try to never use plastic bags, and when I go out shopping I bring a bag with me to carry my stuff, something which is going to become commonplace with the tax.;)

Lemming

Originally posted by Typedef
Perhaps it would be an idea to have the supermarkets and other types of retail outlets that supply the majority of these platic bags to pay to have them collected and recycled. Clearly the tax payer cannot be expected to indefinitely foot the entirety of the bill as the waste is not entirely of thier making.

Not a bad idea TypeDef

Wasn't there rumblings before about making businesses pay for the amount of pollution they're generating?? I have a vague recollection of something being mentioned a year or two ago, but nothing more said??

Typedef

If Donegal is an example of general governmental types thinking on this then unfortunately I doubt any serious transgression from the basic ethos of landfill and incinerate is planned soon.

From: http://www.donegal.ie/dcc/environment/wastemanagement.htm#_1
1.
Publication of "Changing Our Ways with Waste" consultation booklet and freepost questionnaire.

The "Changing Our ways" booklet was designed to explain the issues surrounding waste management to householders in simple, easy to understand language and allow them to respond to the consultation via an attached freepost questionnaire. 54,500 booklets/questionnaires were distributed, 38,000 were sent to households and the balance to businesses. 2,316 responses to the questionnaires were received.
A report on the submissions received through the public consultation process was given to the members at a meeting held on 25th September 2000. A Special Meeting of the General Purposes Committee was held on 9th October 2000 to discuss the implications of submissions received and amendments required to the draft plan as published in June.
At that meeting the Committee recommended that the following changes be made to the draft plan:

*
that the plan not recommend the use of any type of thermal treatment by Donegal County Council.
*
that either two, three of four landfill sites be developed, depending on the cost.
*
that the Council make a significant investment in increasing recycling targets and promoting waste minimisation and recycling practices generally.
*
that the Council maintain its links with the North West Region Cross Border Group regarding waste management issues, especially the provision of MRF?s and Central Composting Facilities (but not as regards the provision of a joint thermal treatment facility.
*
That the Council increase investment in waste management infrastructure, to be funded by increase in landfill charges of at least £15 / ?19.05 to £20 / ?25.39 per tonne annually.

At a Special Meeting of the Council held on 23rd October 2000, the Members resolved to make a new Waste management Plan for County Donegal incorporating the above changes to the draft Waste Management Plan as published in June 2000.

Yes there appear to be more specific plans with agencies like Repak however the legislation that the government is operating under is from an EU directive that I have said before is feeble in it's recycling targets and requisits, requisits that sadly the Republic of Ireland and the UK incidentally fall far short of.
Here is an interesting link from the oireachtas site : http://www.gov.ie/debates-99/2jun99/sect11.htm .

There are also schemes for voluntiary and I stress voluntary recycling for argicultural wastes
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200001/cmselect/cmenvtra/36/36ap33.htm

Manufacturers and importers can join an existing compliance scheme (Irish Farm Film Producers Group) by paying £100 per tonne produced, or register with the Environment Agency and pay £250 per tonne produced with the opportunity of recovering 50 per cent of that sum, if they can prove that the waste material has been recovered for recycling at a later date.

It would seem actually that in this country there is little to no impetus placed on business to recycle at all, in fact the meagre amounts of recycling the the European Union has set out seem underachieved in Ireland.

Still a start is a start, lets be honest it matters not how the recycling is achieved but, that in the end it happens. In Germany it is easy for the government to require that companies pay for recycling as Germany is the sort of market that someone in business would not quickly abandon due to it's size, now I don't know how the economics stack up vis-a-vis how untenable it would be for a market of Ireland's size to enforce such laws, but my thinking is, if other European nations of Ireland's size can persue significantly more environmentally friendly policies then why not Ireland?

Xterminator

Just to pick up on that point,

It would seem actually that in this country there is little to no impetus placed on business to recycle at all

To my mind there is no public demand for recycling.
The current revolt over bin charges is an indication of how lukewarm the public are over anything tha costs them money.

X

bonkey

Originally posted by scuzzy
Great idea. I think Switzerland already have a 25c levy on shopping bags, so we're getting off kinda light.

Not so. Here (in Switzerland) you get plastic bags for free - but theyre tiny and made of roughly the same materials as the bags you put your fruit in at Tesco's in Ireland.

You *do* pay for the real shopping bags, but they are usually paper. The few shops that also offer large plastic bags are usually upmarket department stores which charge lots for them, but build them like the Irish "bag for life" bags.

The paper bags are outstanding. We typically throw two or three into the boot of the car, and re-use them till they rip or get soaked. Then, its fire-lighting duty (or paper-recycle for those without fires).

I think large chains in Ireland will cop on to the notion that there are no taxes on paper bags and will move the direction of Switzerland. Charge a pittance for them - enough to make profit, but less than 15 cents - and pocket a fortune. Consumers, in the meantime, benefit from properly recycleable bags, which are still reusable.

There was a consumer-based "trial" recently where they saw how much weight each shops bags could hold while soaked. IIRC, the winner could hold over 20kg, with none of the bags falling below 10kg. Not bad.

jc

bonkey

Originally posted by Xterminator
To my mind there is no public demand for recycling.

Correct, but recycling is in everyones interest. Therefore, the government must assume a responsible position and legislate for what is best for the country, rather than what Joe Q Public wants.

As a parallel - look at the budget - people dont want higher taxes, but they government hands them out when needed for everyone's benefit (at least in theory).

Dumping is a massive problem in Ireland. People dont want incinerators, dont want super-dumps, and dont want recycling. This doesnt leave many options. So, the government is forced to take action to force one of the options. There can be little real argument against recycling other than, perhaps, the cost (in effort and possibly to business). This is not a good excuse.

jc

col_nicholson

GO ON THE 15 CENT FOR BAGS, GO ON THE ENVIROMENT, BOMB THE VORTEX

Victor

Originally posted by bonkey
Here (in Switzerland) you get plastic bags for free - but theyre tiny and made of roughly the same materials as the bags you put your fruit in at Tesco's in Ireland.

You will still be able to get this type of bag for unpackaged food (vegetables, bread, sandwiches) and as a second packaging for raw meat.

Originally posted by bonkey
I think large chains in Ireland will cop on to the notion that there are no taxes on paper bags and will move the direction of Switzerland. Charge a pittance for them - enough to make profit, but less than 15 cents - and pocket a fortune. Consumers, in the meantime, benefit from properly recycleable bags, which are still reusable.

Paper bags aren't ideal, especially white ones, they still use material to make them and the bleach in the white ones can cause as many problems for the environment as plastic ones.

Victor

Wow, how stupid are people? How is it a 'hidden tax'? It is one of the few taxes where you know exactly how much you will pay and you can avoid it! Duh!

---

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0304/breaking3.htm

Shoppers say plastic bag levy 'another tax'
Last updated: 04-03-02, 12:23

Shoppers have described a 15-cent levy introduced this morning on each plastic bag as another hidden tax.

.....

Irish_Ranger_IR

it should be €1 for a bag, everyone just throws them away, after use, it should be more.....

mike65

In work today as I was deliving in shops and supermarkets I noticed a decent number of people using only green bags, I think it'll catch on very quickly, even the hippy string bag will make a comeback. One thing - I'm sure I'm not the only one who uses the shopping bags to line the kitchen bin so now what do we use, the powers that be should have introduced proper "multi-waste" bins before this levy.

Mike.

Yoda

I've bought two bags. I remembered to take a bag with me three times. I carried a tin of catfood home in my hand. I was given a paper bag for free.

My local laundary is charging for those really big bags they put clean clothes in. Fair enough.

azezil

I've stoped useing bags (plastic ones) altogether! so if ya see some crazyed luatic walkin the streets (street) of thurles with a lota grocery's in his arms it'll most likely not be me

Yoda

I bought a toy tiger in T. Bears in the Stephen's Green Shopping Centre. I didn't want a plastic bag. The sales clerk told me that it was included in the price. "I still don't want a plastic bag." She didn't give me one.

On the receipt the 15¢ is itemized.

She didn't offer to give it back to me.

stormkeeper

The place I work... SuperQuinn... Well the whole company ran out of greenabags last week because we didn't make enough. many customers just chucked stuff back into the trolly, rather than get plastic bags...

pugwall

I was in Centra off Grafton street on St. Patricks day when I overheard two Americans commenting on the 15c plastic bag tax. They were complementing the Irish on this great initiative and how environmentally conscious we are . They obviousally hadn't been up grafton street or anywhere near O' Connell street.
I was ashamed to be Irish on this patriotic day of ours. The amount of rubbish and dirt on the streets was disgracefull.


I think that the tax is a great idea. It should have been there years ago!

Yoda

Considering the amount of broken glass in this city, I should think that a deposit-system on cans and bottles like they have in the US, Norway, etc. would be of some urgency.

Gerry

I think this levy is a masterstroke by the government. Theres a shop just around the corner from where I work where I buy lunch. Normally you wouldn't think twice about taking a bag, but when the charge came in, I realised that I was well able to carry the stuff without a bag.

handyandy

I thinks it is HMV are billing the bags as €0.00 on the receipt (but I presume they pay the tax). Not really fair on people who don't take bags.

Monkey

how does it affect people who don't want to take a bag ? They don't have to pay anything why should they care if other customers have to pay 15 cent or not?

handyandy

Originally posted by Monkey
how does it affect people who don't want to take a bag ? They don't have to pay anything why should they care if other customers have to pay 15 cent or not?

No. They are charging for the bags across all the products they sell, so people who don't take bags are subsidising those who do.

Typedef

It utterly defeats the purpose of imposing a tax on plastic bags if a retail outlet simply charges all customers for their use.
The idea is that every time you want to use a plastic bag you have to pay your fifteen cents and thus discourage people from taking and using plastic bags as such is the pan demic of consumption in this country alone somewhere in the region of 1.2 billion plastic bags are consumed by the citizens of Ireland every year.

I have utterly avoided use of plastic bags for months now, instead favoring my own backpack, but such a step from HMV is utterly against the spirit and intent of the tax on plastic bags.

Once you remove the disencentive of charging people per bag the intent of the law becomes utterly abrogated and nullified.

What sheer idocy.

Yoda

Is it legal for them to build in a bag cost into the price? Who would be responsible for this area, Revenue?

I suppose I should have asked for my 15¢ back from T. Bear since I didn't take a bag.

handyandy

I think they are trying to get away with it because they have to:

1. account for it on the receipt
2. make sure every bag is taxed (the company is repsonsible for the collection of it)

And strictly speaking this does cover it.

PS I don't know the exact wording of the regulations.

sceptre

I've seen a number of HMV paper bags around lately so maybe they got their act together.

I've gotten into the habit of taking a bag with me when I go into town in my jacket pocket (don't see the point of paying 15c per bag)

hose small paper bags (with handles no less!) should have been introduced a long time ago. You could (and I do) say that normal shopping bags can have a use after just bringing the stuff home. Record store mini-bags have very little use after bringing your CD home in it

OLDYELLAR

i work in a shop and one day , these children came in bought some stuff , took a bag and the minute they were outside the shop , they took the stuff out of the bag and threw the bag on the ground , i was totally annoyed by them , so i think charging for bags is an excellent idea and very good for the environment , it also makes people more conscious as to exactly how much they are spending .

l3rian

I dont like this 15c per bag charge at all. I really dont care about the environment so why should I have to pay? If you guys care about it, then you should pay it. They should make it voluntary.

mike65

:rolleyes:

Muppet...

Mike.

l3rian

mike your a muppet...

stackboundary

Originally posted by l3rian
I dont like this 15c per bag charge at all. I really dont care about the environment so why should I have to pay? If you guys care about it, then you should pay it. They should make it voluntary.

Hmm perhaps only the people who want to pay for sewerage treatment should and everyone else should pay the charges for cleaning their crap, literally?

I think not.

Sposs

This bag levy is aload of crap,if the Goverment are really doing it to protect the enviorment why stick a VAT charge on the price of the bags,this is just another cheap stunt by the government to look echo friendly while they line their own pockets.:mad:

Victor

Originally posted by Sposs
if the Goverment are really doing it to protect the enviorment why stick a VAT charge on the price of the bags

What VAT charge?

mike65

Do all cool newbies go through a plonker stage....?

Mike.

Cork

The Centa & Super Valu "Bag For Life"

When the bags fall appart - will these shops replace it for free?

l3rian

is an alternative view not allowed on this forum? typical...

mike, u reply like you ignored anything i said because it wasnt the popular green view, making you ignorant

what difference would a few plastic bags on the roads affect your life? do you trip over them? do they smell? so what if they take a long time to degrade, you wont be around if its a problem in the future, and who is to say that there wont be an invention to degrade any amount of plastic bags?

and stackboundary, if i was mike i would straight off call you a "muppet", sewerage treatment is necessary and important, plastic bags charges are unnecessary and stupid

Typedef

l3rian kindley shut up now, you are diminishing this forum and showing your own infintile attitudes, please go and grow up and stop abusing people on this board.

If you have a divergence of opinion with someone don't tell them to suck a fart from your ass, because no-one, least of all Mike wants to hear it.

Try some intellectual discourse for a change.

Keeks can you please deal with this fool?

l3rian

what are you talking about?

mike65

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/private.php?s=&action=show&privatemessageid=30329


Says it all really....:(

Mike.

Victor

Originally posted by l3rian
what difference would a few plastic bags on the roads affect your life

A few? Ireland used something like 1,000,000,000 plastic bags last year.