Website Owners Union??

DeVore

This is the outcome of a drunken chat about the state of
websites and telcos and isps in this country.
Theres a MILLION things wrong with it, and I'm not sure
its even practical to implement but its a fun idea...

Short Version: Interconnect charges for Website Owners.

Long Version:
People dial up to get to our content. The telcos take all of that
cash without any revenue share to the people who are busting their asses to put compelling content up there.

It has been very slowly occuring to me that there's something
very wrong with this picture (well *duh* tom! )

Everyone knows there is bugger all cash in adverts at the moment. Page impressions are of less interest then in 1998 so we should look at other ways to invoice people for our content. The whole of the web is looking for a better model and pay-per-view seems to be rearing its head everywhere.

What about this as a model. The ISP's/TELCO's pay us a fraction
of the revenue they make from the calls which are going to our sites or we stop allowing their users in.
Lets call this... oh I dunno... an interconnect charge.

"This website best viewed with Esat"

I know there are technical issues about this, but they are not as great as many people would think. Frankly, I dont see why webmasters and content people should slave over a hot editor to create a market from which the ISP are making a LARGE amount of money without letting any of it drip down the line. It actually seems stupid and unviable but then telcos are not well known for their long term vision in this country anyway.

Currently its a Win-Lose situation which everyone will agree is always a bad deal and which will never last any length of time.


"So where are you going with this, Ikea-Boy?"... I dunno, I'm just thinking that if sites started to pop up saying... Dial Up with Esat and we'll let you in... wouldnt that be interesting?

I mean, Eircom currenytly pay Esat interconnect charges which are healthy enough. If we were asking for less then those interconnect charges it could form a compelling business reason for them to give us (say) 1% rather then pay Esat (say) 5%.

Since home users are free to dial up with ESAT at no extra expense this wouldnt really bother them.

Like I said, a million things wrong with it but I've not heard it
postulated before. I'm intending on asking the admins of Boards.ie to see if we'll go Esat only for a while... It would at least be decent PR

DeV.

misterq

Sounds like an online version of IMRO[1].

Which makes you wonder. If radio stations etc have to pay for playing copyrighted works, why don't the eejits (Eircom, Esat et al) have to pay us webmeisters for our copyrighted work?

Sounds like you do your best thinking drunk Tom. I'm off to the pub...


Ronan

[1] http://www.imro.ie

dahamsta

I hate to make statements without backing 'em up with evidence, but I have to say that it has been mooted before, either in the UK or most likely the US. Saw it on one of Wired, C|NET or The Reg before. I don't think anything came of it, and although it's a nice idea, I can't see it coming off in real terms, because you won't get the support of the big portals. Still though, worth playing around with the idea, see if you can come up with a model that /would/ work.

adam

moist

Curious Concept....

Originally posted by DeVore

I'm intending on asking the admins of Boards.ie to see if we'll go Esat only for a while...

All well and good for users that dialup in Ireland.
What about people on leased lines, people on HEANet, Cable/ADSL/Wireless, people in other countries ?

So, perhaps you just block Irish ISP addresses that are not Esat,
so then I will just use some open HTTP proxy in the states.

I know you admited that there were problems, but the biggest problem
is that the 'Net is simply one big mess.
ISP's don't make a whole lot on the call charges, the telco takes the bulk,
so how do you decide if someone on an Esat phone line has dialed up through UTVinternet ?

amp

Ok Debbie, you get a yellow card for that sort of communist propaganda. Anymore red nonsense and it's back to mother russia with ya.

jmcc

Originally posted by moist

All well and good for users that dialup in Ireland.
What about people on leased lines, people on HEANet, Cable/ADSL/Wireless, people in other countries ?

So, perhaps you just block Irish ISP addresses that are not Esat,
so then I will just use some open HTTP proxy in the states.

Accepting connections from Esat/HEAnet seems perfectly logical. An open proxy would not work in this case since the proxy would not be within the IP range. There are other possibilities but this is getting into the realms of conditional access systems rather than simple network engineering.

Since most IP space in Ireland has RIPE data, it would be possible to build up a model of Irish IP space. (I've been working on something similar for the last few weeks and it should be finished next week.)

A better and rather more evil solution would be to post an Eircom only proxy for users that would only accept from Eircom space.

Regards...jmcc

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Hmmm Interesting concept.
It sounds like a logisitical nightmare given the technology- especially the Esat thing (although admirable:))

I suppose the nearest comparison I can think of is the ISBN (The International Standard Book Number) system where an author gets a royalty everytime someone checks their book out of a library.

Conversley, IMO, Subscription Sites are not/will not work unless...
You have the ability to differentaite your content to such an extent that makes it advantageous for clients to pay for it, have an exclusive Unimatable Intellectual Property Right or is cheaper, more efficient than the "real world". Afaik www.Law.com is a prime example of this, but the successes to the best of my knowledge are few and far between [although I've heard a few B2B sites are doing quite well]

As Adam well knows, we are gradually realising its not about being "right" about something or realising the inequity of a situation (ie. IrelandOFFLine & the Comms Sector) its all about getting a friendly ear in the DoPE or Finance to fight for you and horsetrading continously to have the law changed in your favour.
So start lobbying DeV. and soon enough we may have an IWU (Irish Webmasters Union )

________________________
BTW, just on a related matter we discussed this on the IO committee Mailing List.
Perhaps it might not be best to start petioning the ISP's for a cut of the cake. Why not lobby to get Tax law changed to incorportae an exemption for WebDesigners. ATM, Schedule D Case II rules in relation to income and deductible expenses are allowed for certain trades and professions. -ie. Writers, Muscians, Artists- You know the "suppossed" creative types-
Now it struck me instantly that it has not embraced the Development of Digital Media and incorporated it into the above exemption at all. Thus, why not try to lobby for the inclusion of certain Webdseign activities into this??

This could be an angle and you could use the tact of the recent lobby to give Sportsmen & woman a tax break on income earned throughout their careers as model to proceed with.

If you look through the Tax Consolidation acts you will see the amount of chancers you have lobbied for all sorts of tax breaks,incentives and reliefs and GOT THEM!!
Worth a shot:)

Terminator

Interesting idea but it would never work. Not in a million years. It would be like RTE telling its viewers they could only watch Fair City if they tuned in on a Sony Television.

But keep up the good work - banners ad revenue will probably turn around in a year or so

amp

I find whatever Terminator said offensive and I demand that he be struck off the medical register.

DS

Originally posted by Terminator
just one example would be the ability to post a reply to an earlier part of the discussion

Have you heard of this 'ere quote function?
Otherwise, it's a good idea You'd just need some hefty advantages for it to work. Plenty of "elite" private forums for a start.