Why isnt it just plain forward yes or no?

The Gopher

Can this government do anything right?I dont watch the Irish news much as I tend to avoid its whole obsession with the North and car accidents but until Friday I was under the impression that if you opposed abortion you should vote no.But as usual som1 has f.ucked it up.It seems you should vote yes if you agree that yes there should be no abortion.Vote no if you believe that YES there should be abortion.What the f.uck?Cant it just be like any other referundum that could be run by people with an ounce of sense?The way it should be done is
Abortion-Do you want it introduced or not?
If yes you do vote yes.
If no you dont vote no.
Simple as that.

Victor

The reason it isn't a straight forward yes / no as you wish is because the debate has moved on from the question you ask.

In general terms, if you are in favour of allowing abortion in the following situations:

under no circumstances (even to save the mother): vote no
only to save the mothers life: vote yes
only between fertilisation and implantation (morning after pill and IUD): disputed
only to save the mothers health: vote no
threatened suicide: vote no
claim / proof of incest: vote no
claim / proof of rape: vote no
social / economic circurstances: vote no
no constraints: vote no

Boston

thats about it, yet its still not clear, as far as i cant see the only lot of the prolife group pushing for a yes vote is youth defence, and these guys are beyond extreme

DadaKopf

The Referendum Commission summarises the issues surrounding the abortion as follows.

What will be the effect of a Yes vote?

If people vote Yes in the referendum and if, subsequently, the Human Life in Pregnancy Act is
passed, then:

• the present right of a pregnant woman to avail of abortion if she is suicidal will end;
• there will be a new legal definition of abortion;
• medical procedures necessary to save the life of the mother will not be considered to be abortion in its criminal sense.

What will be the effect of a No vote?

A No vote means that the present Constitutional wording and the present law will remain in place. The Oireachtas could subsequently pass a law dealing with abortion but it would have to accord with the present interpretation of the Constitution. This would mean a threat of suicide would be a ground for a legal abortion but the Oireachtas could regulate the circumstances.

What is the Intention Behind the Referendum?

The intention of the referendum is to;

• remove the threat of suicide as a ground for a legal termination of pregnancy;
• provide for a law on abortion that can only be changed by another referendum;
• give constitutional and legal safeguards to existing medical practices where interventions are made to protect the life of the mother.

All quotes from www.refcom.ie. But there's a lot more than these bullet points involved.

The Gopher

Originally posted by Victor
The reason it isn't a straight forward yes / no as you wish is because the debate has moved on from the question you ask.

In general terms, if you are in favour of allowing abortion in the following situations:

under no circumstances (even to save the mother): vote no
only to save the mothers life: vote yes
only between fertilisation and implantation (morning after pill and IUD): disputed
only to save the mothers health: vote no
threatened suicide: vote no
claim / proof of incest: vote no
claim / proof of rape: vote no
social / economic circurstances: vote no
no constraints: vote no

Are you 100% about this?I was under the impression the No camp were in favour of full abortion for any reason.Though I dont agree with abortion I dont thimnk theres anything at all wrong with the morning after pill.The morning after pill poisons the egg or kills the sperm.Im not sure which but killing a few tiny sperm is hardly the same as killing a living foetus is it?

n.catenthusiast

life is not black and white. you can't just say abortion is a good thing or a bad thing.
for that reason you can't just say yes or no.
The End

Xterminator

I agree with the last comment.

You have the ironic sight of the pro choice, and some of the more extreme 'pro life' groups (among others) agreeing that you should vote no to this amendment.

I never thought i'd live to see the day they would agree on anything!

Just shows how out of touch the govt wording is, they have united diametrically opposed factions against the referendum!

X

Victor

Originally posted by Xterminator
Just shows how out of touch the govt wording is, they have united diametrically opposed factions against the referendum!

Not necessarily, they are merely seeking some sort of moderate middle ground that they hope will be a majority.

This would mean a threat of suicide would be a ground for a legal abortion but the Oireachtas could regulate the circumstances.

While legal, abortion is not considered ethical by the Medical Council where there is a threat of suicide, as that threat is not considered medically / pschologically valid.

Xterminator

Not necessarily, they are merely seeking some sort of moderate middle ground that they hope will be a majority

By seeking this so called middle ground, they have managed to piss off both sides of the debate.

You yourself have posted to agree the govt has gone the wrong way to deal with this issue.

X

Victor

Originally posted by The Gopher
Are you 100% about this?I was under the impression the No camp were in favour of full abortion for any reason.

No I'm not 100%, I'm merely trying to promote informed debate to the best I can. Some of the "No" supporters vehemently oppose abortion, some would support 'compassionate' abortion and others would advocate a very liberal system.

Originally posted by The Gopher
Though I dont agree with abortion I dont thimnk theres anything at all wrong with the morning after pill.The morning after pill poisons the egg or kills the sperm.Im not sure which but killing a few tiny sperm is hardly the same as killing a living foetus is it?

I haven't studied the "morning after pill" in detail, but I understand it prevents a fertilised egg from implanting. This is why there is quite some disagreement over it.

Originally posted by Xterminator
By seeking this so called middle ground, they have managed to piss off both sides of the debate.

Not quite, it's more the "extremes" that dislike the proposals.

Originally posted by Xterminator
You yourself have posted to agree the govt has gone the wrong way to deal with this issue.

In my opinion yes, in other's opinions yes, in their opinion no.

Kopf

This referendum concerns (mainly) the right of a woman to have an abortion in this country if she is deemed suicidal. At present she can. So, if the amendment is amended to the constitution, it rules out this right.

What's so difficult about that? Perhaps if you understood that this isn't about whether abortion should be legalized but whether it should be legal under certain circumstances you wouldn't be so confused.

:mad: :mad: :mad: