ntlworld.ie dial up service

spongebob

Routing or Autodialler boxes.

These boxes have (had to be precise) one function only, to divert calls to ntl esat or whoever from eircom, the vast bulk of them are esat boxes. CPS does that fro you in the exchange now so thats why the boxes are not sent out to customer sites anymore.

They are left lying around because it would be too expensive to collect them and if joe punter were asked to do so and stick the box in a prepaid envelope he would more than likely balls it up and require a visit anyway. It is therefore safer and cheaper to leave them in situ.

The law prevents tampering with eircom kit (actually post office equipment coz the law is ancient), these boxes are not eircom kit.

The boxes are line powered, they charge up after being plugged in. As they continously draw power from your line they actually reduce modem connect speeds by 2400 - 9600 kbps (5-15% or so). By removing them, most people will get faster and more stable connections to their internet service provider.

I would conclude that leaving them in situ amounts to tampering with the line, especially if you only have an analogue line.

If they were initially put in in order to get calls into ESAT No Limits I would ring ESAT and DEMAND that they recover their equipment immediately as it is interfering with your line.

If you call eircom in to deal with a fault which MAY have been caused by one of these boxes they will charge you £45 (ISTR) for the visit because the faulty equipment is not theirs.

Regards

M

Boston

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger


I presume this is what you're referring to, Boston? I can't see how it is immoral.

Syn: Wicked; sinful; criminal; vicious; unjust; dishonest; depraved; impure; unchaste; profligate; dissolute; abandoned; licentious; lewd; obscene.


It certainly can't be defined as tampering.

v. tam·pered, tam·per·ing, tam·pers
v. intr.
To interfere in a harmful manner: tried to tamper with the decedent's will; tampering with the timing mechanism of the safe.
To tinker with rashly or foolishly: Don't tamper with my feelings.
To engage in improper or secret dealings, as in an effort to influence: tamper with a jury.

your entering a contract under the pretext that you will use their service to make all your phone calls, when in fact you know you will simply remove the box(i dont know if this will even work now) and use eircom for cheaper calls. this is totaly dishonest and immortal there for inbreach of the T&C, it may be fraud.

Fraud is the intentional deception or misrepresentation that an individual knows to be false or does not believe to be true and makes, knowing that the deception could result in some unauthorized benefit to himself/herself or some other person.

you know your not going to use the service so there for it is not only immoral but fraud. And since your having a monetary gain from the fraud it is therefore unlawfull.

but the fraud issue is arguable so put that to one side. the box belongs to esat, you touch it if a may that would impare it, then that definitly would be vandelism which is unlawfull.

Muck, wuch of what you said has allready been said.

have to dsiagree with the tampering with the line bite, esat has the right to put that there so its not tampering.

Anyway i think ive proven my orginal point, you dont have the right to touch that box.

Bard

Originally posted by Boston


your entering a contract under the pretext that you will use their service to make all your phone calls, when in fact you know you will simply remove the box(i dont know if this will even work now) and use eircom for cheaper calls.

eh... does the contract actually SAY that for the duration of the contract the customer will ONLY make phone calls using their service and may not use another companys service? I seriously doubt it.

this is totaly dishonest and immortal there for inbreach of the T&C, it may be fraud.

Ignoring the "immortal" typo, - no, it isn't dishonest and immoral. You enter a contract with ntl saying that you will use their service;- and you use their service.

This doesn't mean that you don't or won't use another company's (eircom's for example) service and I don't believe they can legally force you not to as that would be seriously anti-competitive.

So, in response to your:

its illegal to touch that box

No,... no it isn't As far as I'm aware, you can unplug and bypass the box all you like. You still have an eircom account to make use of if you want to.

Boston

if its A) as easy as you say and b) as legal as you say, one has to wonder how esat ever made moeny out of cps.

btw
this argument is mute, there is not way now of doing it, removing the box no longer works.
so yes, yes i am right.

but ive long since fogothen about what i am right about.

He asked about ntl, and i can tell you from personal experience, they dont allow the prefix and they dont use the box

Bard

Originally posted by Boston
if its A) as easy as you say and b) as legal as you say, one has to wonder how esat ever made moeny out of cps.

eh- because people were attracted to their service by the lower call rates and were happy to pay esat a subscription fee on top of paying eircom their rental.

btw
this argument is mute, there is not way now of doing it, removing the box no longer works.
so yes, yes i am right.

but ive long since fogothen about what i am right about.

eh... the argument is not "mute". Mute means silenced.

I presume you're trying to say that it's a "moot point" because it's relatively irrelevant at this stage, and you're kinda right there.

What you're not right about is saying that bypassing the wee box would be "illegal".

"removing the box no longer works"... fine... but that doesn't make bypassing it illegal.

If the agreement that you sign up to with ntl: states that you are compelled to ONLY use THEIR service (and nobody else's) to make telephone calls, then that agreement itself sounds completely illegal on grounds of anti-competitiveness. That was my main point, which it seemed you missed.

Boston

well untill there is a presentant you cannot converm your believe that it is legal.

of course the ntl contract doesnt include such a clause as it is a standardized one.

gurramok

Originally posted by Bios
ok so do ntl put a box in your home or not???

I cant vouch for NTL but in a similar situation when i changed my telephone charges to Cinergi(who are cheaper than the rest of 'em), there was no box or dialling prefix numbers stuff, it was all done in the exchange, i just signed the contract and a phone call from Cinergi 2 weeks later, the transfer to the new company was complete.

Boston

As ive said 3 times in this thread and probably another 4 by other people, ntl dont use the box

davros

You got me interested in this topic so I looked up the ODTR Decision Notice on Carrier Pre-Selection (99/29). It states...

· Customers must be able to 'override' their pre-selections for individual calls on a call-by call-basis by dialling a carrier selection/carrier access code, having made arrangements to do so with alternative operators (including Telecom Éireann).

That should answer some of the questions, I think.

I was living in Japan back in 1996. They had competition in the long-distance market by then. You could buy a box that would attach to your phone that would make a decision on-the-fly as to which long-distance carrier to use. In other words, when you lifted the phone, the box would figure out which was the cheapest carrier at that instant and insert the appropriate pre-selection code. Don't know how the pricing info was updated (maybe it dialled up some server late at night).

Supercell

I moved apatment 5 months ago...ntl still havent reconnected me to the service......

They still send bills here for the last resident. They still send my bills to the old address.....

When i call them for the form and BEG for them to update my address, they say no problem..but the bills still get sent to the old address (or a botched up version of the current address)..dublin 1 is not dublin 7, do they write it down on paper???.

Have filled in the transfer forms twice already, still not connected to NTL phone service. They tell me Eircom rejected the application...

I call Eircom..they say its NOT true, they never had one..and so it goes over and over and over and over..used to be a big supporter of NTL, but they are wairing me down..

Boston

Originally posted by davros
You got me interested in this topic so I looked up the ODTR Decision Notice on Carrier Pre-Selection (99/29). It states...



That should answer some of the questions, I think.

I was living in Japan back in 1996. They had competition in the long-distance market by then. You could buy a box that would attach to your phone that would make a decision on-the-fly as to which long-distance carrier to use. In other words, when you lifted the phone, the box would figure out which was the cheapest carrier at that instant and insert the appropriate pre-selection code. Don't know how the pricing info was updated (maybe it dialled up some server late at night).

yes thats is mandatory, but not in general use here.

blackburn

I phoned up about it and it's a load of rubbish... not available in many places, plus it would only be good if you spent a long time on the phone I guess