What's your web browser of choice?

amp

Simple question. People who go on about browsers not included in the poll are stupid, yada yada. Just vote okay?

Terminator

Internet Explorer every time.

Can't understand why anybody bothers with Opera or Netscape - you can admire their ethics all you like - but when it comes to browsing they are usually sh!te.

Also, as a developer trying to ensure sites look decent in Netscape is a nightmare.

Thank god their popularity is dwindling. They only seem to be used by crumbling under-funded colleges these days.

buddy

Anyone heard of an AOL browser - my site stats show some visitors who used this browser to reach the site!

Acidflash

using konqueror at the moment

Enygma

MSIE.

Even though Opera and Mozilla are really impressive, I dunno, I guess I'm just set in my ways.

Lemming

Originally posted by Terminator
Internet Explorer every time.

Can't understand why anybody bothers with Opera or Netscape - you can admire their ethics all you like - but when it comes to browsing they are usually sh!te.

Also, as a developer trying to ensure sites look decent in Netscape is a nightmare.

Thank god their popularity is dwindling. They only seem to be used by crumbling under-funded colleges these days.

HA!!!!!

Actually ... I think you'll find that under the W3C (yes .. there is uch a thing as international standards bodies) DOM architecture .. developing for the likes of Opera and Netscape/Mozilla is fanastic and its actually IE who are the odd ones out with their gay-a*s proprietary bullsh*t tags.

Also Terminator .. bear in mind that not everybody can or wants to use winblows

Terminator

last time I heard w3c was quietly winding down. Didn't they tell you?

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2101012,00.html

Meh

Originally posted by Terminator
last time I heard w3c was quietly winding down. Didn't they tell you?

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2101012,00.html

WSP != W3C

Terminator

okay, my mistake, but still it goes to show that the minority browsers are not being taken seriously anymore. They're less than betamax in terms of usership.

robot religion:

5 Sin
10 Goto Hell

Lemming

:rolleyes:

Think about this ......

if you develop for IE, why is it that you have to go out of your way to cater for every other browser? But its not the same when reversed?? Hmm??

Do you actually think that M$ give a flying f*ck about you, me and everyone else when they develop their proprietary w*nk-tags?? Hmmm? That's why standards are important. And since its IE that's the odd one out with the DOM architecture, you have to ask yourself "why is it so difficult?"

If IE is the best, then what are M$ worried about if they use industry standards? All they're trying to do is lock you into THEIR browser.

Terminator

As much I dislike MS, when 95% of the web are using their product, you have to admit that they're writing the standards book here.

Meh

Originally posted by Lemming
if you develop for IE, why is it that you have to go out of your way to cater for every other browser?

If you develop pages that only work on IE, you're not a web developer at all. You're an "Internet Explorer" developer.

As much I dislike MS, when 95% of the web are using their product, you have to admit that they're writing the standards book here.

<Flashback to 1995>"As much I dislike Netscape, when 95% of the web are using their product, you have to admit that they're writing the standards book here."
And we all remember how well Netscape's non-standard HTML extensions turned out, don't we?

Lemming

Originally posted by Terminator
As much I dislike MS, when 95% of the web are using their product, you have to admit that they're writing the standards book here.

If M$ are writing the standards book, then we may as well destroy everything with an electrical circuit and go back to the stone-age. Given their track record with such things as reliability, stability, security, then we are well and truly f*cked.

Lemming

Originally posted by Meh

If you develop pages that only work on IE, you're not a web developer at all. You're an "Internet Explorer" developer.

Well said Meh

<Flashback to 1995>"As much I dislike Netscape, when 95% of the web are using their product, you have to admit that they're writing the standards book here."
And we all remember how well Netscape's non-standard HTML extensions turned out, don't we?

And that is why Standards are important.

Terminator

Originally posted by Lemming
Given their track record with such things as reliability, stability, security, then we are well and truly f*cked.

Come on that's a little harsh, besides I've only gotten 2 Outlook Express viruses today. If everyone was using Netscape then the russian/asian coders would be writing more viruses for that platform.

Lemming

Originally posted by Terminator


Come on that's a little harsh, besides I've only gotten 2 Outlook Express viruses today. If everyone was using Netscape then the russian/asian coders would be writing more viruses for that platform.

It's not harsh. It's the truth! M$ constantly get HAMMERED by security experts and the like for their incompetence towards the areas outlined above.

I'm not so sure you'd see so many viruses as you see with M$ for one simple reason ... any other browser that gets to the top would be there because it is genuinely the best. The only reason IE is there is because M$ forced it upon people and OEMs, and are also trying to take away your choice of what you can use. Tactics like that tend to aggrievate people, don't you think??

po0k

Originally posted by Lemming


If M$ are writing the standards book, then we may as well destroy everything with an electrical circuit and go back to the stone-age. Given their track record with such things as reliability, stability, security, then we are well and truly f*cked.

Extremely well put lemming.
Succinct and to the point.

I use Opera, Lynx, and IE.
I only use IE cos there are one or two things which it does which standard browsers can't/aren't allowed to do.
I use Opera as my main.
The quick functions and extra info it tells you by default which aren't given enough thought in IE are a joy to use.
The thing is only half installed on my IT account in college and it works for everything I need it to (besides JAVA - but that is the fault of the IT depatment in my college and the fact I have no admin rights to install such stuff )

I may be using some sort of 'booth-browser' soon. Getting something off Doodee. Might turn it on before I rip it apart for the screen, ram and keypad.

Terminator

Originally posted by Lemming

I'm not so sure you'd see so many viruses as you see with M$ for one simple reason ... any other browser that gets to the top would be there because it is genuinely the best. The only reason IE is there is because M$ forced it upon people and OEMs, and are also trying to take away your choice of what you can use. Tactics like that tend to aggrievate people, don't you think??

That's simply not true - if netscape is so great then why don't people just download it? Nobody delivered Napster to anyone's door yet 70 million people still took the trouble to download it. Good products do well on their own merit - netscape dropped the ball after v 4.5 and they've declined ever since. Its parent, AOL sticks a copy on every one of its 45 million subscribers CDs and its still isn't being used.

Says volumes.

Lemming

Originally posted by SyxPak


Extremely well put lemming.
Succinct and to the point.

*Takes a bow*

I only use IE cos there are one or two things which it does which standard browsers can't/aren't allowed to do.

Actually .. I've found that Netscape 6.* gives most of the "IE only" sites the two fingers and can view them rather well indeed!

Lemming

Originally posted by Terminator


That's simply not true - if netscape is so great then why don't people just download it? Nobody delivered Napster to anyone's door yet 70 million people still took the trouble to download it. Good products do well on their own merit - netscape dropped the ball after v 4.5 and they've declined ever since. Its parent, AOL sticks a copy on every one of its 45 million subscribers CDs and its still isn't being used.

Says volumes.

How many users know about any other browser other than IE?? I'd be interested to see that statistic ... because THAT would speak volumes.

The fact that AOL sticks a copy on every cd is moot since IE is the default browser on a windows machine, and most users don't know how to change that default.

And on the topic of "good products" ... the Apple has a better architectural design than the PC, being RISC, yet the PC gained dominance because that's what was PUSHED by companies. BetaMax had advantages over VHS, but VHS becamse the standard because that was what was PUSHED, and so on. Napster did well because people saw a free meal ticket. Nothing more.

Terminator

Betamax was superior to VHS but it failed cos Sony was charging too much for the licensing.

Apple churns out gimmicky products so I won't even go there. Anyone remember the Cube?

The fact is if you go browsing the internet with netscape running on an apple mac you're in a for a short n bumpy ride.

The overwhelming majority of developers only think of Netscape after a site is complete . That's when we go back and put in the meta tags and generally try to get the site to fail gracefully in Netscape. Truth is we don't even look at Opera as a platform. Time is money afterall so why waste it?

buddy

MSIE - can someone explain in plain English what is wrong with it?

Meh

Originally posted by buddy
MSIE - can someone explain in plain English what is wrong with it?

Doesn't fully support w3c standards. Has many recurring related security problems.

That's simply not true - if netscape is so great then why don't people just download it?netscape dropped the ball after v 4.5 and they've declined ever since.

I agree. Windows NT4 included Internet Explorer (version 2.0 I think). This version sucked so much that people went and downloaded Netscape just to get a functional browser. *Nobody* used IE2. With version 4, IE became a perfectly adequate browser from an end-user perspective ==> no longer any reason for user to install Netscape instead. In my opinion, the switch from Netscape to IE wasn't so much due to NS dropping the ball as to IE catching up.

Lemming

Originally posted by Terminator

Apple churns out gimmicky products so I won't even go there. Anyone remember the Cube?

I'm not talking about products. I'm talking about the fundamental design concepts :rolleyes:

The fact is if you go browsing the internet with netscape running on an apple mac you're in a for a short n bumpy ride.

And why is that I wonder?? Possibly because M$ insist on using proprietary tags. ALso .. you fail to mention WHICH version of NS. There's a BIG difference between the 4.* family and the 6.* family.

[]bThe overwhelming majority of developers only think of Netscape after a site is complete . That's when we go back and put in the meta tags and generally try to get the site to fail gracefully in Netscape. Truth is we don't even look at Opera as a platform. Time is money afterall so why waste it? [/B]

If you're a webdeveloper .. you should be fired. Never assume that your potential audience is using *A* particular piece of software if you can help it. Ever heard of the lowest common denominator? Locking out potential customers is foolish, and simply perpetuates browser monopoly.

And what's this "we" business? You certainly don't speak for me, so take that "we" and shove it where the sun don't shine. Then again .. I'm not a web developer per se .. and more an all-round programmer who also does web-dev

buddy

Missed the ENglish translation!

Terminator

Originally posted by Lemming
Then again .. I'm not a web developer per se

Gee I never would have guessed looking at your home page.

http://www.griff.cx/

Lemming

Originally posted by Terminator


Gee I never would have guessed looking at your home page.

http://www.griff.cx/

That was written a long time ago and quite frankly .. I don't care what IT looks like. I thought about redeveloping it, but why?? It's just there for ****s and giggles. I've better things to do with my time.

I have FAR better/advanced work that would make you dump your load Terminator .. unfortunately .. its internal company stuff so i can't show you.

PHP/Javascript/XML combined with MySQL, PostgreSQL, InterBase, and by the looks of what's next, M$ SQL Server - AND its cross-browser compatible (in accordance with W3C DOM standards) without losing ANY functionality. Want to use NS, Opera?? No problem.

And since we're gonna get into a slagging match ... why don't you put your balls where your mouth is and show everyone YOUR home page.

Terminator

Okay but seriously man all its missing is an animated email button

Lemming

Originally posted by Terminator
Okay but seriously man all its missing is an animated email button

it HAS an animated email button

left hand column .. last item - spinning @ symbol

Terminator

ha ha!

I didn't look far enough down the page.

Come on man, pull it together and put your hot dbase stuff up there.

ObeyGiant

Now that this thread has successfully dissolved into a pissing contest, allow me to add my own two cents.

I am a firm believer in open source and open standards. The web was built using open standards, and that model has worked pretty well for us so far. Should we allow Microsoft to define the standards for the next generation of web design and development, simply because they have a "95%" market share (as a side note: I'd be interested in seeing what sites were polled to produce this figure)? Of course we shouldn't. Haven't you been following the news? They have been found GUILTY of anti-competitive practices to acheive this over-inflated market share. Does this sound like the kind of people we want making decisions for us? It would be akin to allowing a corrupt illiterate fucktard businessman with his ass firmly impaled on the scaly cocks of oil barons, who has trouble understanding basic actions like "eating" become president, and decide who, and what, the "free world" should rally against!

I come from an accessiblity background. In case you are not au fait with what this involves, allow me to briefly summarise the philosophy behind it:
Information should be available to everyone, not just those with the latest whizz-bang-bells-and-whistles plugin for version 9.3 of browser running at 1600x1200 resolution at 32-bit colour depth. This includes people with disabilities, which would stop them from being able to see the screen, or use a mouse.

A rather convenient by-product of this is the fact that your site will look much the same in every browser.

Funnily enough, this is not a hard thing to achieve. Do you know why? Because the means to achieve this are set aside in open standards (set about by the w3c - http://www.w3.org). Write proper code for browsers that support the standards, and you'll see that every browser will have no trouble in displaying your information as you have asked it to.

"Fine," you may say, "but what if I want to do something REALLY flashy?!"

Fantastic! Go right ahead! There is absolutely nothing to stop you from using the afformentioned whizz-bang-bells-and-whistles plugin to make your site look snazzy. But bear in mind, if you're using your site to sell something, and a potential customer (who doesn't have the plugin you require) can't access the information he or she needs, they'll go elsewhere. So, you need to ask yourself, can you afford to alienate any customers, even if it's only the remaining 5% who use a non-supported browser? If so, I'm really rather envious, and can I have a job?

Oh, and to answer the original question - I chose galeon.