Why do the "Disabled and Housebound" not have subsidised internet access - NOW??.

Paddy20

People who are in receipt of Disability Allowance, Invalidity Allowance,etc. Are in a true democracy entitled to discounts on most services. I mean I even have a free BUS PASS!!, which is of little use as I am not fit to travel, but I can "surf the net" and I want a special discounted rate - as of right - yours,paddy20

Bard

Unlike transport and health services, the Internet is not an essential service.

If you want it, pay for it.

Should the disabled also be entitled to discounts with record stores?... cable TV companies?... video rental?... McDonald's?

Boston

eircom is a private company, the goverment has no right to tell it what retail products it provides and at what price

Bard

Originally posted by Boston
eircom is a private company, the goverment has no right to tell it what retail products it provides and at what price

You've missed the point, Boston.

He's not asking for the Government to force anyone to do anything. He's asking for them to subsidise Internet access for the disabled.

Pimp

why not the unemployed, single mothers, low paid, small business....did i leave anyone out?
Oh yeah...why not me as well.

Bard

oh yeah, and while they're at it, why don't the government subsidise a 4 bedroom townhouse in Malahide for those who work unsociable casual hours like me?

Paddy20

I suppose the fact that my telephone rental cost is paid for by the state is because it is "NOT" regarded as essential. Maybe the tax etc that I paid over 30 years working - does not entitle me to benefit now that I am one of a minority. I suppose we should go back to the days of - Dog eat Dog. Where only the fit survive. I can not possibly agree with your argument?- Remember never underestimate the power of the "Individual" yours, paddy20. Think again all you sceptics and incoherent idiots - Long live the human spirit and the will to fight injustice??.

Boston

a telephone is essential, making calls isnt not in every case, that is why they dont pay all phonecharges.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by paddy20
Because I still have not had a proper logical reply or explanation as to why Eircom have not been told by Government that the "Disabled" have a right to a special reduced internet access call charge or discounted rate??. Do you comprehend!! - The point being if the "disabled" receive a concession, then it opens the door legally for all to have a "fair rate" internet charge i.e. about Euros 25.00 per month - for unlimited access, sounds about right? O.K. Yours, paddy20:cool:

IMHO:

No one group has a right to reduced internet access - unlike public transport, telephones for the disabled/elderly it isn't really an essential service.

The government cannot tell Eircom to provide a service to any person or group. They are now a private company. Any "social services" they provide now would be on a contract they have accepted from the government, not because they have been instructed.

Everyone deserves a flat rate internet connection...that is more to the point.

Paddy20

Re:" A telephone is essential"- My goodness, maybe progress is being made! - Is ordering my food online essential, Is communicating with others essential, Is LIVING essential or should I go back to living in a cave on a hillside the only way to go . Try living alone in a house - looking at four walls and then tell me that using "the internet" at a reasonable cost is not an essential requirement - for the disabled & housebound. No wonder this Country stumbles from one political scandal to another - we seem to be populated by citizens who love to be conned and robbed by their own?, maybe its a psychological throwback to 800 years of British colonial enslavement. A lot of our citizens got used to not having to "THINK" for themselves, yours,paddy20

Boston

listen im sorry for you, but there are people here that need the internet just to put food on the table for their families. and thats not considered essential

Sand

I voted not entitled for the reasons listed above, namely that its not a vital service. Unless you can prove it is I fail to see why the government should subsidise your use of what is basically a luxury.

Dustaz

I voted yes, for exactly the reasons listed above.

Boston, Paddys point is that the people who use the internet to put food on the table for thier families can go and get another job if they want.
If someone is housebound 24/7 then i wouldnt object to a subsidy for internet access for them.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Dustaz

If someone is housebound 24/7 then i wouldnt object to a subsidy for internet access for them.

devils advocate moment here:

People coped with this and worse for a long time without the internet.

The advent of online shopping doesn't mean we should subsidise the net because it's become "essential" - it's not. It wasn't before, and I'm unsure if the argument stands now.

My personal view: everyone deserves cheap access, not just certain groups. As someone earlier pointed out, where does one draw the line?

Originally posted by Paddy20

maybe its a psychological throwback to 800 years of British colonial enslavement. A lot of our citizens got used to not having to "THINK" for themselves

A bit of an over reaction to people disagreeing perhaps?

Boston

Originally posted by Dustaz
I voted yes, for exactly the reasons listed above.

Boston, Paddys point is that the people who use the internet to put food on the table for thier families can go and get another job if they want.
If someone is housebound 24/7 then i wouldnt object to a subsidy for internet access for them.

why because they are bored? what if someones favourite pass time is pornos, would you allso be in favour of goverment funded pornos?

This is not a case of spitfullness, give one solid reason why its needed more over the next guy, (not just needed)

dromoland

I believe the poll should also include carers. That's what I do. I'm virtually totally tied to the family home caring for an very ill and invalid mother.

My only choice of outlets has to be tv, reading and of course staying in touch with the world through the internet.

I save the state a fortune by not putting my mother into one of the dreadful state nursing homes. (I couldn't afford a private one)

So I think I should be entitled to a discount.

What do you people think.

Dromoland

Paddy20

Hello Dromoland, Thank you for replying with a very "valid" point. As someone who is a full time "Carer" I understand your position and the responsibility you have "voluntarily" taken on out of your natural sense of duty to your Mother. As you probably already know "Carers" are entitled to -carers allowance - a free telephone rental allowance and a "free" electricity allowance, from the Department of Social Community and Family Affairs DSCFA. As you stated - you should also "Qualify" for a "free" or reduced charge "internet access scheme" but as yet? no such scheme exists!!, and - Carers - would certainly qualify. You would have my vote - for starters, as you do save the state a fortune by looking after your Mother at home, instead of dumping her in to a hell hole as so often happens these days. God Bless you, and good luck in the future, yours, paddy20. P.S. If by the grace of God I am given the strength. I will campaign until I drop for reduced internet charges for those who "NEED" them...

SkepticOne

I too am a carer, looking after my father who is 93, though it is a role I have only recently taken on. I've been interested in the issue of Internet access before that.

I do think that Internet access should be subsidised for people with disabilities because I realise that their need is 10 times that of mine. I can still get out of the house and and travel about the city for certain periods of time and my brother can fill-in for me if I need to get away for a couple of days.

But being at home most of the time has made me realise how important internet can be.

So I'm quite happy to vote yes on this specific issue.

But I also think that the reasons that Internet access is so expensive here needs to be examined. Right now, even after any subsidy has been paid, Internet access would still be expensive for those on social allowances. That is why I'm a supporter of IrelandOffline which is about better and more competitive Internet access for everyone.

m1ke

The idea of the internet is that services will be made available directly to the people, and in their homes.

Even the government are getting involved launching this err "e-government" stuff, no matter how much bull**** they talk it's relevant. Tasks like online banking, online government services, conducting business/shopping and correspondance online is vital and important to people with with disabilities and these people in my opinion should definitely be subsidised since we live in a caring society where we all contribute our bit.

Some of the opinions expressed by certain people seem quite sickening and spiteful to me actually, dismissing any disabled person looking to conduct part of their lives online with a subsidised internet connection as being cheap/spongers undeserving of a valid benefit.

The fact is it is "vital" and should be recognised as such.

dahamsta

I think the reason this topic gets confused is that most IrelandOffline supporters believe that everyone should have affordable Internet access, and that subsidised Internet access for the disabled/housebound is a completely separate issue.

adan

m1ke

would you not agree the two issues share a lot of common ground. This discussion board seems like a good place to discuss the issue no ? it seems to me like it's another reason why our government is letting us down in the internet connections / price area in general.

Nice to see we're representing small businesses, domestic users etc... but **** the disabled, sponging bastards. /end sarcasm

dahamsta

would you not agree the two issues share a lot of common ground.

Did I say they didn't?

This discussion board seems like a good place to discuss the issue no ?

Did I say people shouldn't?

What I took issue with was Paddy20's decision to repost his question and poll. If you read my response /the last time/ Paddy20 posted, you'll see that I agree with him.

In my last post, I was trying to explain why some posters may appear to have odd opinions on this. It's a complicated issue. Again, I agree that disabled/housebound people should have subsidised Internet access, however I think we're doing our bit by campaigning to bring the cost of Internet access down for /everyone/.

adam

m1ke

but you're still saying it's something that ireland offline wouldn't touch off odd.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by m1ke
but you're still saying it's something that ireland offline wouldn't touch off odd.

I think it would confuse the message that IrelandOffline is trying to make about Internet access generally. There are many different groups who could benefit greatly from better access - anyone who works from home, for example. The issue of subsidies for specific groups would be better dealt with by those specific organisations representing those groups, IMHO. That should not be regarded as meaning that we don't care about people with disabilities. If you are trying to make a case for the general improvement of Internet access you need to stick to that, IMHO. Personally, I think there should be subsidies but I believe it is separate issue.

dahamsta

What SkepticOne said.

adam

dromoland

Thanks Paddy for your support earlier on. Yes I did give up employment to care for my mother and I do receive the Carers Allowance. But it's tough managing on small money and I am indeed tied to the house as my 84 year old mother needs fairly constant care and I don't have any family living locally to support me.

I don't want to go on and I'm not moaning as I don't regret for one minute what I took on which was only possible because my family had grown up.

But there must be a fair share of people like me who maintain their sanity through been able to keep in touch with their hobbies, interests, etc via the internet.

I have paid my taxes and am currently saving the taxpayer money through what I do.

Sadly I have to more than watch every minute I spend on the net, and I really appreciate what irelandoffline are doing in the campaign to bring affordable internet access to Ireland.

I've never sponged in my life and I certainly wouldn't feel guilty now in accepting a reduced internet charges if it were ever offered.

Thanks for the poll and this excellent discussion.

Regards, dromoland

Manic

I worked for a long time paying PAYE at full rate until i was reduced to a wheelchair 24/6 ( i get to go out 1 day a week ) I dont sign on the Dole I never asked for handouts but one thing i do have is a Carer. I totally rely on my Carer and i totally rely on the Internet for my really small buisness and to be able to communicate with anyone on the outside world ( my outside world is anyone outside my house ) I agree with Paddy in what he is saying and ok dahamsta has a valid point too. But this post was not ment for here. To be discussed by people who first of all dont care and secondly dont want to know about it. I think the first thing that should be acheived is Cheap Internet Access for ALL, be it ADSL/ISDN/56k or whatever. This topic should be moved and faought for at a later date in a seporate Forum. Sorry if this sounds rude but ive been there done that and wore the T-Shirt. Its time this Topic was dropped and we got on with the problems in hand.

Manic

WARNING: This post was NOT Spell Checked or edited in any way.

Paddy20

To:- Dahamsta, As I do not know of any other campaigning organisation specifically concentrating on "Fairer internet charges for everyone?? - How you can say that my request for subsidised access call rates "Is a seperate issue" Surely the very active response to this my - latest - posting on this subject. Is proof that it is not a resolved internet problem and many people are showing that they have "plenty more" opinions on the issue. As for myself I posted my wish on IrelandOffline, because I have to stay "offline" most of the time, due to the charges and the fact that my income is limited to subsistance level - "Disability Allowance". I hope this helps clear up any misunderstandings? and by the way I hope IrelandOffline "A campaigning organisation"!! will adopt the needs of the "Disabled/Housebound" so that I do not have to hunt around for another forum for this debate/issue. Many Thanks for your co-operation and I genuinely mean "No offence" to anyone?? despite my occasional "rant" Its only me letting off steam - very therapeutic, Your, paddy20. Living in hope that justice will prevail in the end - for all users of the internet:rolleyes:

chernobyl

IOFFL was established to campaign for cheap access for all and not for some specific group, it is indeed a completely seperate issue.

IOFFL represents all home users...

Manic

IOFFL was established to campaign for cheap access for all and not for some specific group, it is indeed a completely seperate issue.

All 'Is' being specific!

IOFFL represents all home users...


And your point is?


Manic

dromoland

Ok I have to agree this is a separate issue, But surely any side issue like this one that might be taken up by the media will bring to the public attention the overall problem of unaffordable internet charges in Ireland, might even embarress Eircom.

I feel any new fronts that could be opened up will all contribute eventually to our main goal: affordable internet access for all.

dromoland