Are Goths jumped-up Skangers?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Was walkin through Temple bar yesterday, just on the far side of the music centre from the square, and some goth\thrasher type guy sprays half a flagon of cheap cider all over one of my friends.

Then we saw them smashing glass bottles on the cobble-stones, God only knows why they were doin this but if an Ambulance or Police car needed to get down there it wouldn't have been all that pleasant a situation.

Then police did come and they referred to them as "the ****in pigs", sounds a bit like what they claim they hate.

So, are goths\thrashers just jumped up skangers?

Boston

yes

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

depends on if you mean real goth types, or those idiot teens who think their black leather trenchcoats make them "alternative"

cournioni

You cant judge all goths/thrashers or whatever by the actions of one person. And no I do not think that at all, I just think hes new to the scene and trying to be "cool". The goths I know don't do any of that kind of thing.

Wait till AngelWhore sees this... he'll put you in your place!

azezil

i've seen people in suits get drunk n disorderly... Hey everyone who wear's suits must be just skangers too!

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Wait till AngelWhore sees this... he'll put you in your place!

Damn ****ing straight!


I must make absolutely, perfectly clear, that those ****ing kids who hang around the music centre are *NOT* Goths.

They're a bunch of stupid ****ing kids who think that Slipknot are Death Metal, and that their baggy pants and dog-collars make them "Goth" in some way.

I think that Mordeth's idiot teens who think their black leather trenchcoats make them "alternative" comment was Nail/Hammer/Head.

Just go and ask one of them if they like Bauhaus, and watch the dumbfounded stare they give you.


And I'd just like to make it PEFRECTLY clear, they are NOT Goths.

n.catenthusiast

I always thought goths were harmless and peacefulish. the woest I've ever seem them do is spitball someone in McDonalds and giggle.
There outlook of life is to bleak for them to do any damage.

PiE

Isn't being "Goth" a lifestyle rather than a music taste? So why are Goths judged by what music they like/listen to?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Originally posted by Mordeth
depends on if you mean real goth types, or those idiot teens who think their black leather trenchcoats make them "alternative"

Yea they were those "alternative" types, I shoulda been more clear. Was just makin the point that those people who hang around Temple Bar shouting "norm" at the likes of me were idiots

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Ahamah

Yea they were those "alternative" types, I shoulda been more clear. Was just makin the point that those people who hang around Temple Bar shouting "norm" at the likes of me were idiots

Thats better.


And before anyone gives me a bit of a blurp.
Think about this: Would *YOU* like to be thought of in the same group as those temple bar idiots?

I had people on here jeer at me about that before.
One such comment that really peaved me off was something along the lines of: "I bet when you go to Dublin, you hang around the music centre."
Like I'm gonna spend my money on a bus trip up to Dublin so I can squat in a laneway with a bunch of idiot kids for a couple of hours.

Boston

ive this inbuilt cenors for this type of thing, reall goths i can normaly spot a mile away, kids in leather i can also spot by my need to give them a good kicking.

i mean ive nothing against goths, ive seen some fine goth birds lately.

you can tell the differnce between the two, because the kiddy goths think that being a goth is something better and that everyone else is so in awh of them. The other goths(generaly older) dont give a ****, you can usualy talk to these guys and they are pretty decent without them talkign ****e. "so what do you think of hellious maximaus new album, pretty alternative aye"

Tazz T

I think they should listen to some real metal and then throw cider over me. Then, after some consideration, I'll vomit on them.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by Tazz T
I think they should listen to some real metal and then throw cider over me. Then, after some consideration, I'll vomit on them.

Do I know you? You seem like a friend of mine that's a cynical fúcker!

I'm just waiting for an excuse to hit one of those TBMC fúckers. If I had of received a load of cider, there would have been a frightening situation.

bombidol

These kids are refered to as "scary kids" by Goths, in a funny way not a frightened.

Bomb

Khynareth

OK ask a Goth if he's Goth and they most likely going to answer they aren't.

Ask one of these kid if they are and they are going to answer 'yes of course' (Thinking: What a DumbF**, don't I look like one?

They are just like these people who, dressed in pink and green come up to you and tell you: "You know, I used to be a Goth/Metalhead/ have long hair" as if to apologise to see you in such a poor state and try to reasure you...

Well I like my phase, it has lasted for long enough, thank you, and I don't want to change the way I look to end up looking like you, you pitifull cockcroach.

These kids are going to grow out of it sooner or later.
The ones who will make it alive that is, 'cos everytime I can slap one around...

But anyway, these TMC kid would probably get on well with skangers if they didn't think themselves better. I think that in the end it's just a question of education between the 2 classes of skangers. The TMC Kids are the 'rich' version of normal skangers in the end.

'Real' (As far as any is real) Goths, like metalheads are another (beta) version. I don't think these TMC miscarriage rejects deserve any attention or any title. Unless you feel like slapping someone around a bit, but as they say, you shouldn't hit sh**, it splashes....

seamus

Originally posted by AngelWhore

And before anyone gives me a bit of a blurp.
Think about this: Would *YOU* like to be thought of in the same group as those temple bar idiots?

I had people on here jeer at me about that before.
One such comment that really peaved me off was something along the lines of: "I bet when you go to Dublin, you hang around the music centre."

*ALL* rockers get that. Remember back in Secondary school, when being a rocker was something which mystified people. All too often I'd hear, "So you hang around the Central Bank every weekend then, huh huh huh (dumb laugh)".
That usually ellicited a dirty stare and a condescending smile. Got very annoying after a while.............

jaggeh

having hung around with the older generation of "step-children" a few years ago iknow exactly what you guys are talking about, the problem with temple bar right now is the amount of 12-14 year olds getting obscenely drunk, and im not making things up i used to work in netshop and the amount of times an ambulance had to be called for some poor kid who thought drinking 3 litres of cider in 30 minutes was fun needed his stomach pumped.

then theres the incidents with police, omg dont get me started....


the thing is there is a ratio, 10% of them are dead sound people who would fit in with any group, the other 90% are a group of neo-pubescant tea leafs who's parents should probably have them locked up until they pass go (17) and collect their 200.

i mean this in the nicest possible way

that being said ever since central bank was railing'ed off the situation has just deteriorated.

bombidol

the only thing about slapping one of those scary kids is that in about 2 seconds flat you would have about 30 feckers on top of you, and i dont care how pussy they are, they'll knock the crap out of you, but 1 on 1? no chance my granny would have em.

Bomb

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

ah they're funny enough

and some of the girls can be cute

Cheez

They're just idiot kids who feel like they "dont belong" and
need some outlet for their anger and say "hey lets get
pissed and annoy people!! dressed up like so we might get noticed!!"
Sad state of afairs if u ask me
Its Goth mixed up with the "look at me! look at me!" culture
we have nowdays
They'l probably end up like those anarchist racist fuks
i saw in germany(fuked up bunch o arsehole alcoholics)

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by AngelWhore


Damn ****ing straight!


I must make absolutely, perfectly clear, that those ****ing kids who hang around the music centre are *NOT* Goths.

They're a bunch of stupid ****ing kids who think that Slipknot are Death Metal, and that their baggy pants and dog-collars make them "Goth" in some way.

I think that Mordeth's idiot teens who think their black leather trenchcoats make them "alternative" comment was Nail/Hammer/Head.

Just go and ask one of them if they like Bauhaus, and watch the dumbfounded stare they give you.


And I'd just like to make it PEFRECTLY clear, they are NOT Goths.

says the man that obviously invented the trend.
so what does it take to be a goth?

do you have to listen to scandinavian black death magic mythical metal rock hardcore to be a goth?

or is it the clothes and the eyeliner and the need to be as conspicuously different from every other person in the world

or do you have to be like the worlds most mopiest and depressed person and prove your worth by trying to commit suicide 5 times a week becuase its all societies fault you are forced to wear torn black oversized jumpers?

or is it a state of mind?

personally i reckon they are all a bunch of wasters because lets face it, i dont care. there has always been an element of skanger in dublin. when i was a young fella i used to go and play arcade games all day all saturaday in amusment city arcade an westmoreland street. anyone would tell you this was where all the goths and rockers used to hang out. and after downling about 10 bottles of vodka, theyd all up and up to stephens green for a big scrap with the skinheads and the punks.

ahhh, those were the days......

and then i grew my hair long and listened to dodgey music.

Asuka

Am I a goth because i wear black? Maybe im just someone who likes the colour black (as happens to be the case).

The people who try to be goths are the worst sort. Anyone who tries to be something, or characterises themselves in a certain way because they think its cool, is, by definition, a wannabe. I dont think goths are people who 'dont belong' or any of that crap. I think theyre people who are just looking for attention wherever they can get it.

To the best of my knowledge, 'Goths' were a group of Barbarians instrumental in the destruction of the Roman Empire. 'Gothic' was a form of architecture predominant in the middle ages, which emphasised making things pointed.

And therefore, by a rather large leap of logic, I have conclusively proven that goths are indeed jumped-up skangers

A

azezil

Originally posted by Asuka
Am I a goth because i wear black? Maybe im just someone who likes the colour black (as happens to be the case).

The people who try to be goths are the worst sort. Anyone who tries to be something, or characterises themselves in a certain way because they think its cool, is, by definition, a wannabe. I dont think goths are people who 'dont belong' or any of that crap. I think theyre people who are just looking for attention wherever they can get it.

To the best of my knowledge, 'Goths' were a group of Barbarians instrumental in the destruction of the Roman Empire. 'Gothic' was a form of architecture predominant in the middle ages, which emphasised making things pointed.

And therefore, by a rather large leap of logic, I have conclusively proven that goths are indeed jumped-up skangers

A

well ya made a believer outta me

PiE

Originally posted by Asuka
And therefore, by a rather large leap of logic, I have conclusively proven that goths are indeed jumped-up skangers

lol

Don't even try to deny it, goth-people.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

says the man that obviously invented the trend.
so what does it take to be a goth?

I didn't invent it.

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

do you have to listen to scandinavian black death magic mythical metal rock hardcore to be a goth?

Not at all.
You'll actualy find that a lot of Goths don't like Metal at all.

You're obviously as know-nothing as the kids, thinking that goth is how heavy it is. Which couldn't be further from the truth.
When I'm in London I always go out to the really cool Goth clubs over there, and the kind of stuff that's played is bands like VNV Nation, Die Krupps, Bella Morte, Front 242, then some of the older stuff like Sisters of Mercy, Fields Of The Nephilim, Joy Division, The Cure, which is all pretty 80's.

All this couldn't be further than all the death metal you have me pinned with.
Get it into your head, it's got NOTHING to do with how heavy the music is.

So, try to understand that my arguement is *NOT* a 'Holier than thou' (Or in this case, heavier than thou) type blurp.

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

or is it the clothes and the eyeliner and the need to be as conspicuously different from every other person in the world

or do you have to be like the worlds most mopiest and depressed person and prove your worth by trying to commit suicide 5 times a week becuase its all societies fault you are forced to wear torn black oversized jumpers?

or is it a state of mind?

Way to throw a few steriotypes around!
Who can argue with that, huh?

Over-sized jumpers?
Generaly speaking, goth stuff is not baggy in any way.
It's all pretty tight, bondage stuff, PVC and the like. Straps, Buckles, Zips, handcuffs...

Anyway, try to get that it's absolutely NOT a contest about "Look, I cut myself more than you, I'm hardcore!"
That's just plain dumb.

Try and go out to a goth club some time, you'll not see one Slipknot hoodie, baggy pants, and such bull****.

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
personally i reckon they are all a bunch of wasters because lets face it, i dont care.

Now, how can anyone beat such sound logic?

SheroN

as far as im concerned, if goths were extras in Dracula that would be ok, but in everyday life they look silly. They should cheer the **** up and leave the white face make up to the joker.

that is all.

Asok

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by AngelWhore



I didn't invent it.



Not at all.
You'll actualy find that a lot of Goths don't like Metal at all.

You're obviously as know-nothing as the kids, thinking that goth is how heavy it is. Which couldn't be further from the truth.
When I'm in London I always go out to the really cool Goth clubs over there, and the kind of stuff that's played is bands like VNV Nation, Die Krupps, Bella Morte, Front 242, then some of the older stuff like Sisters of Mercy, Fields Of The Nephilim, Joy Division, The Cure, which is all pretty 80's.

All this couldn't be further than all the death metal you have me pinned with.
Get it into your head, it's got NOTHING to do with how heavy the music is.

So, try to understand that my arguement is *NOT* a 'Holier than thou' (Or in this case, heavier than thou) type blurp.



Way to throw a few steriotypes around!
Who can argue with that, huh?

Over-sized jumpers?
Generaly speaking, goth stuff is not baggy in any way.
It's all pretty tight, bondage stuff, PVC and the like. Straps, Buckles, Zips, handcuffs...

Anyway, try to get that it's absolutely NOT a contest about "Look, I cut myself more than you, I'm hardcore!"
That's just plain dumb.

Try and go out to a goth club some time, you'll not see one Slipknot hoodie, baggy pants, and such bull****.



Now, how can anyone beat such sound logic?

um yah!
once again i think you completely fail to get the point....

you really dont take subtlety too well do you.

what makes a goth a goth?
yopu tell us how so and so isnt a goth, but what i want to know is, what does make a goth.
if you R E A D W H A T I S A I D S L O W L Y A N D C A R E F U L L Y
you will see what i am talking about.
god, do i have to put a fúcking smilie after every post for you hard of humoured?

ykt0di9url7bc3

are goths jumped up skangers?
no

if you saw some nigerians making doing the same deeds, causing the same **** would it make all nigerians out to be skangers or just those **** heads?

stereotyping hah i love it,

strange, i listen to all that goth music, but i dont dress in black?

PiE

Originally posted by SearrarD
strange, i listen to all that goth music, but i dont dress in black?

freak

Keeks

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan


um yah!
once again i think you completely fail to get the point....

you really dont take subtlety too well do you.

what makes a goth a goth?
yopu tell us how so and so isnt a goth, but what i want to know is, what does make a goth.
if you R E A D W H A T I S A I D S L O W L Y A N D C A R E F U L L Y
you will see what i am talking about.
god, do i have to put a fúcking smilie after every post for you hard of humoured?

i'm with WWM on this one (to a point)...There is a lot of talk here about those "kiddies" not being goths....but what is a Goth

CodeMonkey

According to my Goth Bible 2002 edition, someone cannot just decide to become a goth. You have to be initiated by another goth and either offer a sacrafice to the lord of death or dance naked under a full moon. And that's not all, there are also many chapters in the goth bible detailing the rules and code of conduct a real goth has to follow such as no listening to Slipknot, hangs out with other goth wannabes in temple bar or be under 18. If you fail to meet the above criteria for instance then you are just a "****ing kid who hang around the music centre with a group known as the temple bar idiots". Being a goth is not to be taken lightly....

ykt0di9url7bc3

lol you dont know the half of it!

i'd say a goth wouldnt call himself/herself a goth, for the sake that of, would that person care with labels?

can you define a 'hippy' WWM? without calling on clothes, attitudes, a state of mind......and yet they are true individuals

goths are very individual people, i have labeled them when i did not know them.....and when i did i found individuals and not stereotypes

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan


um yah!
once again i think you completely fail to get the point....

you really dont take subtlety too well do you.

what makes a goth a goth?
yopu tell us how so and so isnt a goth, but what i want to know is, what does make a goth.
if you R E A D W H A T I S A I D S L O W L Y A N D C A R E F U L L Y
you will see what i am talking about.
god, do i have to put a fúcking smilie after every post for you hard of humoured?

Kettle, this is pot, YOU'RE BLACK!

I think SerranD said it wonderfully like this:

Originally posted by SearrarD
can you define a 'hippy' WWM? without calling on clothes, attitudes, a state of mind......

If you want to get down to dumb-assed insulting, why dont YOU R E A D W H AT I ' V E S A I D ! ! !
Stop being a ****ing clot, you idiot.
You really dont seem to be taking straight ****ing answers too well, do you?

Because, as it seems, you're the one not getting anything.

What's that WWM??? You feel a sore-ness in your anal region? Why that's irony, biting you in the ass.

Take notice of my post.
And take notice of the very first thing you see on my post.
is this it?
If so, take notice of irony chewing on your ass-meat.

You ask exaclty "What is Goth?"
I can't begin to explain what a downright stupid question it is.
And I don't exactly want to keep quoting SerranD again.
Why dont I ask, quite specifically, "What is a White Wash Man?" (First one who says troll, gets the prize of being the first person to say that he's a troll.)
I suppose to be considered Irish you must fit a very strict criteria, yes?

Oh, but I hear you cry: "Well if there isn't a strict criteria, why can't those kids be considered goth?"
This is quite simple, it's generalization!
Take notice of Seamus's post: *ALL* rockers get that. Remember back in Secondary school, when being a rocker was something which mystified people. All too often I'd hear, "So you hang around the Central Bank every weekend then, huh huh huh (dumb laugh)".
It's the same ****ing thing. And he seems to understand perfectly.

Here's an example:
Lets say Billy-Bob Yokel from Alabama thinks he's Irish, even though he has twelve generations of American inbreeding to prove otherwise. But, every white person in America *MUST* be of Irish decent, right?
I mean, a great majority of white people in America claim Irish heritance.

Extremely dumb comparison, I know.
But it kinda gets the point across.

I told you about the general musical intrests (Note: General, as in generalized) and general dress sense, and basically telling you to go out and see for yourself at whatever goth club you might find, and you'll see for yourself, and draw your own conclusions.
And other than that, you're not going to get any better answer.

But, if you're serious, WWM. Trust me.
Do a little experiment, just to try and clarify the situation, ok?
Go down to temple bar at the weekend, find the steriotypical 16 year old in baggy pants and a Korn hoodie, carrying a skateboard, and ask this person do they know any of the following bands: Lacrimosa, Siouxsie and The Banshees, Fields of The Nephilim, Depeche Mode, The Mission, Alien Sex Fiend, Midnight Configuration, Bauhaus.
Then, go down to Frazers bar on O Connell street on Saturday night, and go down to the basement bar, and ask the people down there about said bands.
Also, take notice of the differences between musical taste, clothing, general attitude, and all things relevant.

Then maybe you can figure it out for yourself. Ok?

Keeks

Originally posted by AngelWhore

You ask exaclty "What is Goth?"
I can't begin to explain what a downright stupid question it is.
And I don't exactly want to keep quoting SerranD again.
Why dont I ask, quite specifically, "What is a White Wash Man?" (First one who says troll, gets the prize of being the first person to say that he's a troll.)
I suppose to be considered Irish you must fit a very strict criteria, yes?

If you can't answer the question, if you can't "define" what a Goth is, then how do you know that the "kiddies' outside the music centre aren't Goths?

Is it a taste in music, clothes or a religion thing? Is it an appreciation of architecture? What makes you a Goth and those kiddies not goths? (I'm assuming you consider yourself to be gothic since your on the offensive over ppl calling those kids goths).

Why does it annoy you so much anyway that they label themselves that?

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Keeks

If you can't answer the question, if you can't "define" what a Goth is, then how do you know that the "kiddies' outside the music centre aren't Goths?

Is it a taste in music, clothes or a religion thing? Is it an appreciation of architecture? What makes you a Goth and those kiddies not goths? (I'm assuming you consider yourself to be gothic since your on the offensive over ppl calling those kids goths).

Why does it annoy you so much anyway that they label themselves that?

Did you even read what I had to say?
There was a part of my post that had adressed your statement, if you'd bother to read it at all.

It's not a matter of "I Can't Answer the question", it's a case that I will only answer it as best it can be answered. Or did you not bother with that part of my post either?

And it's not the fact that it annoys me so much, it's just that this is a great topic to have a good old fasioned rant on. At the end of it all, it's no skin off my neck. People are going to go on thinking what they want in general.


I think I have a simpler way of doing things now, I'll try and see if it gets through to anyone.


Lets say for the moment that Goth IS just the music, and nothing else.
With that in mind, then, we shall compare some bands.
Compare Korn, Slipknot, and the likes to Sisters Of Mercy and Fields of The Nephilim.
It's like comparing Britney Spears to some Brazilian jazz, the difference is so monumental.

Now...
Lets say for the moment that Goth is just about the image, and nothing else.
And you look at the general TBMC crowd: Baggy jeans, hoodies, skateboards...
Then you'd take a look at some of the peeps in a goth club or such-like: PVC, Leather, mesh tops, bondage gear.
The only similarity being that it's a lot of black, but that's generaly a rock thing as a whole, might as well say Johnny Cash is goth.
So again, stark contrast.

Now...
Lets say for a moment that Goth is all about attitude, and nothing else.
Looking at the general TBMC crowd, you got the general rebellious kid phase, the 'I hate my parents' stuff.
The general goth attitude is rather hedonistic, out for fun, and generally not really bothered with other people as such.
So, quite different, yes?


Maybe this makes things clearer than my previous post on the subject, and how it's completely different to the whole TBMC scene. Or maybe I make even less sense, who knows?
I can only wait and find out if it makes any kind of jumbled logic to all you out there in boards.ie land.

Keeks

Let me get this straight. a goth :

is rather hedonistic, out for fun, and generally not really bothered with other people as such.

Hmmm...sound like those kiddies to me...even if i don't think what they are doning is fun.

but then you have stated earlier that:

I'd just like to make it PEFRECTLY clear, they are NOT Goths.

Hmmm...bit confusing really.


As for addressing my statement, it seems to me that you still haven't. How are those kids not Goths, since its not about music, clothes etc.?

WhiteWashMan

im sorry angelwhore, but you havent answered my question.

im not claiming to know what a hippy is, or even what a whitewashman is.

my point is that you casually (and you do this all the time, which is what pisses me off) dismiss other people becuase they dont conform to what you believe.
this person is only wearing a baggy woolly jumper with 2 holes, to be a goth you must have 3 holes minimum.
understand?
and the fact that you say it with such conviction as if youre the lord know-it-all on such subjects, when lets face it, i would call myself a rocker, but i dont have long dirty hair, im not smelly, and i listen to other types of music and i dont headbang every time i hear a heavy riff on the radio.
the point is, im trying to make you see that there is more to people and life than the pigeon-hole catagories that you make up.
if those kids want to call themselves goths, then what exactly is the problem.
seriously?
if you have a problem with someone saying that a bunch of 12 years olds with skateboads are goths, or even worse, the 12 yearolds themselves saying they are goths, then you have far too much time on your hands and you are probably going to be an accountant when you grow up as you are far too analy retentive to lead a full life.
resorting to insults towards me wont make a lick of difference. i dont care what you think of me, and i never have

by the way, you say that its a generalisation about goths, therefore thekids can be covered in that, so youve just undermined your whole argument. youre not a very good debator.

If you want to get down to dumb-assed insulting, why dont YOU R E A D W H AT I ' V E S A I D ! ! !
Stop being a ****ing clot, you idiot.
You really dont seem to be taking straight ****ing answers too well, do you?

Because, as it seems, you're the one not getting anything.

What's that WWM??? You feel a sore-ness in your anal region? Why that's irony, biting you in the ass.

1) i didnt insult you.
2)a clot? hmm, wanna tell me where that one comes from?
3)you havent given any straight answers
4)um, sorry, id this irony? stay at school or pick up a dictionary and learn the meaning of the words you use.
as for irony biting me on the bum, i think you have to make a point first and redirect it back at me, something which you have failed to do.

i know its impossible for a goth to do this on account of having to be miserable, but have a nice day eh?

po0k

"Do you want to ride with Batman?

"You ver vearing mein Speedos"

yossarin

being a goth seems to require a strict adherence to a set of dogmatic rules - they're not an accecpting bunch are they ?

those poor tbmc kids, all they wanted was a home , and they got caught up in the politics of keeping the goth strain pure...

p.s. i love this thread - it pops up every 3/6 months and keeps me amused for ages

ykt0di9url7bc3

I'm on the outside, i'm looking in,
i can see through you, see your true colours,
inside you're ugly, ugly like me,
i can see through you, see to the real you,

can you answer WWM whats it like to be a hippy without actually expierencing it?

how can you understand something you havent tried, you might know that you are not going to like it, but you never really know until you take the plunge, if i flame this a bit more, if a bunch of 12 year kids start jumping around to A1 saying that they are rockers, whats the response from rockers?,

The goth fashion sense, its a style/trend not a uniform, an individual ( i love that word)
The goth music, is personal taste not strict DEATH or such,

there is only so much that AngelWhore can tell you before you have to see for your self...

"unfortunatly i can not tell you what the matrix is, you have to expierence it for yourself..."

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by SearrarD

can you answer WWM whats it like to be a hippy without actually expierencing it?

im not making comments about hippies, nor do i claim to be one so stop asking me and try something relevant
there is no point here

Originally posted by SearrarD
how can you understand something you havent tried, you might know that you are not going to like it, but you never really know until you take the plunge, if i flame this a bit more, if a bunch of 12 year kids start jumping around to A1 saying that they are rockers, whats the response from rockers?,

oh god, not the old 'you dont know what its like' argument.
i never said i wanted to be a goth, i was asking what the requirements you need to be a goth since angelwhore seemed to dispell with ease the notion that these kids wanted to be goths
if he can do that he obviously understands what it means or takes or needs to become a goth, and therefore he can tell me the answer to my very simple question which it:
what makes you a goth and not someone else.
its really simple isnt it, and yet you still cant seem to understand a continue to try and pull the conversation off topic.

as for the rockers and the kids, im sure thyd probably say, look over there, a group of skangers listening to A1.

Originally posted by SearrarD

The goth fashion sense, its a style/trend not a uniform, an individual ( i love that word)
The goth music, is personal taste not strict DEATH or such,

ahhhh, so its not strict, so these young kids could consider themselves to be goth?
so what are you arguing about?

Originally posted by SearrarD
there is only so much that AngelWhore can tell you before you have to see for your self...

i dont want to see for myself, and no lets face it, thats a load of rot, its not philosophy, its a lifestyle.
do you think i dont actually know goths or that im locked in a box somewhere?
if you cant explain it, then i suggest you say so and then take your lack of knowledge away. oh and dont make silly sweeping statements (tm) about other peoples lifestyles when you cant give me an explaination.

so, once again, you have no point.

Originally posted by SearrarD
"unfortunatly i can not tell you what the matrix is, you have to expierence it for yourself..."

o goodie, a film quote. do i get a prize?
ipresume this is to try and make me think that being a goth is deep and meaningful and cant be understood by mere plebs such as i? or is it just a load of patronising cods-wollop?

personally i thinks the latter.

so i think so far we have discovered that the question being asked is what is a goth and that the answer is that its about personal taste. and there fore any remarks by anyone saying that someone else is not a 'real' goth are wildly inaccurate becuase apparently its about personal taste, opinion etc etc etc.

or are you just jealous of their eyeliner?

PiE

Is it not blatantly obvious that a kid wearing a Korn/Slipknot/Whatever hoodie is NOT a Goth?

DO they even claim to be Goths?

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by PiE
Is it not blatantly obvious that a kid wearing a Korn/Slipknot/Whatever hoodie is NOT a Goth?

DO they even claim to be Goths?

Maye they're the new breed of goths, long black hair and white makeup is a signal to me that someone's a Goth style person, that's about it really. I don't think they've some amazing lifestlye or anything, and all Goths that I've met were just really stupid, weird people. I knew one that was trying to grow a goatee, but could only get a dodgy bum fluff tache, so he actually coloured it in with eye-liner

How rediculous is that? Fúckin fool.

po0k

Point. and laugh.

I buckin hate those slipknot 'fans'.
Bloody red-knek band if ever there was one.Probably endorsed by the NRA/WASP/NNP or whatever.

Lemming

Hmmm .. what I think is the big misunderstanding/problem here is this:

the TBMC crowd are going around and saying "Hey, look at me .. I'm a goth", when in fact they should just get on with BEING whatever the hell it is they want to be.

I have several friends that became goth-oriented in recent years, and they went throguh this phase of every conversation they had with you they had to drop in the use of the word "goth(ic)" jsut to let you know that they were goths. My reaction was always to think to myself "stop trying to advertise what you are and actually spend time being it".

This applies to most things in life, not just who's a goth and who isn't

In short:

People who go around "trying" to be something aren't. You just know that you are something, and go about your business(taking that into account).

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by Lemming
In short:

People who go around "trying" to be something aren't. You just know that you are something, and go about your business(taking that into account).

So, what are you?
I personally think there's "normal" people and then freaks, that's about it.

ayatollah

Originally posted by SearrarD

strange, i listen to all that goth music, but i dont dress in black?

ayatollah looks to his left sees searrard - wearing black - thinks to him self what a wonderful world!!!!

Lemming

Originally posted by Dr. Loon


So, what are you?
I personally think there's "normal" people and then freaks, that's about it.

I'm not entire rocker (although pretty close to), not goth (although I like the colour black), etc. etc.

I am "me" quite simply. I will go and do what I think is good for me (whislt trying not to f*ck others over at the same time of course)

ykt0di9url7bc3

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan


im not making comments about hippies, nor do i claim to be one so stop asking me and try something relevant
there is no point here

it was a rehtorical question!

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

what makes you a goth and not someone else.
its really simple isnt it, and yet you still cant seem to understand a continue to try and pull the conversation off topic.

what makes someone a hippy and not some thing else?....can we really define a way of life other than religion...i dont know

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

as for the rockers and the kids, im sure thyd probably say, look over there, a group of skangers listening to A1.

but some rocker might have another opinion, do you speak for the rocker community, are kids listening to A1 thinking that they are rockers, are really jumped up skangers?

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

ahhhh, so its not strict, so these young kids could consider themselves to be goth?
so what are you arguing about?

you wanted to know what the **** a goth was and the answer isnt as clear as text on a page, the best way is to try it yourself!

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

i dont want to see for myself, and no lets face it, thats a load of rot, its not philosophy, its a lifestyle.
do you think i dont actually know goths or that im locked in a box somewhere?
if you cant explain it, then i suggest you say so and then take your lack of knowledge away. oh and dont make silly sweeping statements (tm) about other peoples lifestyles when you cant give me an explaination.

so, once again, you have no point.

Thats the point exactly WWM!, I can give general sweeping statements, because i cant explain it....you got to expierence it, and if you never want to see it for yourself then anything i say will sound confusing, contradictory and gibberish,

you dont know goths, you know a stereotype, and its very hard for me to try and explain to you without drawing up labels and categories

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

o goodie, a film quote. do i get a prize?
ipresume this is to try and make me think that being a goth is deep and meaningful and cant be understood by mere plebs such as i? or is it just a load of patronising cods-wollop?

again the hippy comes into it, i'm trying to make parrallels to the situation

where religion already has guidelines written out for a way of life, a hippy doesnt, a goth doesnt......
altough we see films and read books about hippys, you even cannot really form an outline of what it means to be a hippy or what it takes to be one, if you are one or was one, this can be applied to goths, rockers.....

think of those baord sweeping statements that Morpheous gave to Neo about what the matrix is, it didn't make much sense to Neo (if any), which Morpheous then said that to see what the matrix is, Neo really had to see for himself.....

ayatollah

some goth chicks are fine!!!!!!!!!!!