loop finally unbundled

paddyman

this isn't something i should be admitting here but me oul'lad works in eircom.... and as such gets this company/staff magazine sent out. i read it all the time and todays one said that "after 18 month of negotiations the first contracts for the local loop unbundling(LLU) have been signed. the first wholesale customer, known in LLU context as an access seeker has signed contracts for both phisical co-location and for portacabin co-location.

phisical co-location is where the access seaker places its equipment on the eircom exchange floor and portacabin is where equipment is placed in a portable structure within an exchange campus".

it says that they are expecting 40 more contracts and that they have finally fulfilled their obligations under EU direcive.

Boston

Everybody look and remember thsi day, the day when the local loop was finally unbundled.

this is really good knews, we were aware esat and on other company(cant remember the name off hand) with talkign with eircom to gain access. things might start rolling now

Cork

I am always telling ye to be a little optimistic -
But LLU - Is there a catch or is the witch dead?
If there is LLU - what will it mean?
How quickly should we see results?
I was thinking to switching the phone over to esat - should I hold offa while?

Is this reality or another false dawn?

Hopefully things will happen

dahamsta

I don't think a loop has actually been unbundled yet. However Esat are co-locating equipment in Eircom exchanges as we speak, have been since early this year. It's expected that the first loop will be unbundled this month. Probably Limerick?

adam

SkepticOne

I'm confused. What about this report from last November?

ESAT signed a landmark agreement yesterday enabling it to offer telecoms and high-speed internet services over Eircom's local telecoms network. The deal will give Esat access to one of Eircom's local telecom exchanges and should create a framework for full "local loop unbundling".

Note that from the article it seems like they are installing mainly SDSL rather thant ADSL.

yellum

From what it sounds like there they unbundled the loop cos they were under pressure. Is it the typical work to rule thing now, where they allow one loop to be unbundled and their obligations are then met ?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by yellum
From what it sounds like there they unbundled the loop cos they were under pressure. Is it the typical work to rule thing now, where they allow one loop to be unbundled and their obligations are then met ?

No, it's an ongoing thing. They have to unbundle loops at the price laid down by the ODTR to OLOs that require it. The articles above mark the beginning of the process. If they refuse other OLOs without good reason they will be in breach of the directive.

Typedef

I'm not being a rude trolling Dub.

Limerick : Population 30,000 - 100,000
Dublin: Popluation 1.5 - 1.7 million

Who cares if Limerick gets some fscking access via esat, what about the 33% of the state's population living in the capital? It is still the case that since the reams of pie in the sky talking about broadband in 1998 that for most people in the capital, the most urbanised place on the island and thus the place one would expect the highest levels of telecommunications infrastructure, that most people have one viable route to internet access - 56k dialup, and it's not at a flat rate. I remember asking ntl in 1998 'when will I get cable' and ntl said 'in a few months' now in my book few==3, in ntl's book few >=72-96 months.

Do you know why the strategy for brining broadband to non Dublin towns with >=1500 inhabitants is flawed? Because it seeks to keep the lynchpin of the Irish non-agricultural economy ie (Dublin) in the 56k doldrums. I mean seriously what difference does it make if 20 towns in the country who's combined population doesn't equal that of tallaght have access to fast cheap internet to the state of play of Ireland as an 'internet hub'? Answer, none. What sort of difference would it make if one third of the state's population suddenly had access to very high speed very cheap internet access? My god, it would actually mean that something productive had been done in this country by governance/former state bodies had done something productive something that was not only in their own long term interests but in 'ours' too... and that would cause a temporal displacement of the laws of physics as we now know them.... perhaps rolling back to the pre-big bang universe and from there who knows, perhaps we could make whole new laws, it is quantifiably tenable.... yes I can see it now, such a move would require that the laws of physics would be rewirtten from the inception of the universe.... only then could madcap PD privitisation actually lead to benefits for the Irish public and broadband.... its a brave new world.

I think in the 'new universe we make' post the temporal displacement we should make it the case that things with mass can exceed the speed of light... yes, we could call it quantum broad band travel and we could make contact with beings from other domains at speeds tha defied the laws of our old temporally defunct trogladitic universe... we could call the old universe.. continumous broadbandus trogladitus.......

/Damnit jim I'm a doctor not a brick layer\

jmcc

Originally posted by Typedef
I'm not being a rude trolling Dub.

Limerick : Population 30,000 - 100,000
Dublin: Popluation 1.5 - 1.7 million

Who cares if Limerick gets some fscking access via esat, what about the 33% of the state's population living in the capital?

That is one of the main problems. Dublin is expensive for office space and is fairly densely populated with a fairly badly fscked transport and communications infrastructure. The strategy would encourage businesses to stay in the rest of Ireland rather than migrating to Dublin with all its infrastructural problems. Dublin is old world industrial city trying to get its infrastructure into the 20th century.

I mean seriously what difference does it make if 20 towns in the country who's combined population doesn't equal that of tallaght have access to fast

But these towns and cities would probably have a higher combined clout from an economic viewpoint. Not being offensive, but a lot of people outside of Dublin consider it to be just another third world country with poor communications infrastructure. Then they would also say that about the rest of Ireland. We in Waterford can look down on the village of Dublin as being a mere pretender to the status of city since Waterford is the oldest city in Ireland.

What sort of difference would it make if one third of the state's population suddenly had access to very high speed very cheap internet access?

That assumes that a: this 33% have computers and b: that they know what to do with them. The computer ownership figures should be interesting for this 33% segment. Could it be that with the high cost of living in Dublin, people have more important financial concerns so that computer ownership as a percentage of population could be actually less than some of these cities and towns?

The knowledge economy only forms a small part of the overall economy. Having any significant percentage of the population on broadband would alter the situation. However I think that merely limiting it to Dublin is insane. If this was the real world, the people in Eircom who consipred to stop the march of broadband would be TWEPed for economic treason.

Regards...jmcc

Typedef

Look.
I'm not trying to get into a Dublin v Country debate, the point that I am making is that it is totally defunct to talk of unbundeling the local loop and simply say "oh well sure were unbundeling it, but not for a quater of the people on the Island".

It is a nonsense to talk about unbundeling the local loop as fixing the problems of internet access in Ireland and simply fail to do so in Dublin, Dublin the place with the single highest percent 'proportionally' of internet users in the country, Dublin the capital, Dublin the primate city, Dublin the place where more people have more money to spend on these things then probably evey other city on this island added together. Dublin is vast, Dublin is sprawling and I know the politicians have to be seen to be doing something to help growth of the economy in places outside of the capital but, I can't stress this enough, 'you can't artifically force outside Dublin growth', and to simply say 'oh well we want to make Town[x] the next techie region in Ireland and use that as some kind of lame excuse to fail to do your duty and provide access to 1/3 of the state's population is to qualify the continued extortion of the vast population of Dublin with 56k access in the name of 'delegation'. Ergo, this continued 56k Dublin bias is simply yet another lie that plays on people's phobias about the capital of this state and exploits them so that eircom can appear to be relenting on broadband while only providing potential access to what 10% of the state...... while denying the same access to 33% of the state concentrated in less than 10% of the area of the former.

pete

Originally posted by Typedef

Do you know why the strategy for brining broadband to non Dublin towns with >=1500 inhabitants is flawed? Because it seeks to keep the lynchpin of the Irish non-agricultural economy ie (Dublin) in the 56k doldrums. I mean seriously what difference does it make if 20 towns in the country who's combined population doesn't equal that of tallaght have access to fast cheap internet to the state of play of Ireland as an 'internet hub'?

That's just phase 1.

Dublin is in the phase 2 priority list.

How come nobody has asked where the 20 towns are?

Lemming

Originally posted by Typedef
Look.
I'm not trying to get into a Dublin v Country debate, the point that I am making is that it is totally defunct to talk of unbundeling the local loop and simply say "oh well sure were unbundeling it, but not for a quater of the people on the Island".

It is a nonsense to talk about unbundeling the local loop as fixing the problems of internet access in Ireland and simply fail to do so in Dublin, Dublin the place with the single highest percent 'proportionally' of internet users in the country

Whislt I can see your point Type (and I am a Dub too), there is a certain logic behind choosing smaller places first.

Put it this way. Either attempt to go fro a BIG roll-out, or a smaller more localised one first. if you go for the smaller option, it's easier to track down any teething problems. If things DO go tits up, you'll not have a large proportion of people looking for your blood or compensation.

yes I agree its a sh*tty deal for Dublin. But from a tactical view point it does make sense.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pete


That's just phase 1.

Dublin is in the phase 2 priority list.

How come nobody has asked where the 20 towns are?

Where are the 20 towns?

spongebob

Hi

Phase 1 is Limerick/Ennis/Shannon/Galway City East

BTW ....nobody has asked for LLU in Ennis yet coz the service from Eircon is great...but IF they did it would be no hassle, honest.

Phase 2 is 20 other towns outside of Dublin (where the constituency is a marginal FF/PD one because there IS an election coming up in case you hadn't heard)

Phase 3 The REST of Ireland which includes Dublin so it does.

Early next year once the 'glitches' have been ironed out of phases one and two.

M

jmcc

Originally posted by pete


That's just phase 1.

Dublin is in the phase 2 priority list.

How come nobody has asked where the 20 towns are?

It sounds like the new strategy announced by O'Rourke the other day is being mixed in with the LLU issue. If this gets going, LLU becomes less of an issue.

Regards...jmcc

pete

I think it would be best if a certain waterford based journo rang the Dept of Public Enterprise and ask for a full copy of last friday's news release, seeing as how it's not on their website.

It has a full list of the towns on it.

edit: i'd post it myself but i don't have it in front of me right now

dahamsta

Phase 1 is: Waterford, Wexford, Carlow, Clonmel, Kilkenny, Cork, Shannon/Limerick, Galway, Athlone, Mullingar, Carrick-on-Shannon, Manorhamilton, Gaoth Dobhair, Roscommon, Port Laoise, Letterkenny, Tullamore, Ballina.

I think I have the other phases here too somewhere, I'll have a look.

adam

spongebob

Waterford, Not Marginal
Wexford, Marginal
Carlow, Marginal
Clonmel, Marginal
Kilkenny, Marginal
Cork, Marginal
Shannon/Limerick, Marginal (both)
Galway, Marginal
Athlone, Not Marginal
Mullingar, Not Marginal
Carrick-on-Shannon,
Manorhamilton, Marginal
Gaoth Dobhair, Marginal
Roscommon, Not Marginal
Port Laoise, Marginal
Letterkenny, Marginal
Tullamore, Marginal
Ballina. Marginal

Ronan|Raven

Originally posted by Muck
Roscommon, Not Marginal

Thatll do nicely

Robbo

Galway West is more marginal than Galway East election wise

Thank Jeebus I live weshhhht of the River.

mdf

Just to be clear the Esat rollout is completely different from the list announced last week by the DPE> The Esat list is also on the DPE website but it's from 2001.

jmcc

Originally posted by pete
I think it would be best if a certain waterford based journo rang the Dept of Public Enterprise and ask for a full copy of last friday's news release, seeing as how it's not on their website.

It has a full list of the towns on it.

edit: i'd post it myself but i don't have it in front of me right now

Some of the charts are missing here as the release is in Word format.


The Minister for Public Enterprise, Mary O' Rourke TD, today announced a major drive to bring high speed Internet access to 67 towns around the country.

The Minister launched phases one and two of a regional broadband programme which will ultimately see investment of €160 million in delivering town fibre optic networks in key locations regionally. Both phases involve investment in each of the 26 counties.

Phase one of the broadband programme will see 19 towns, many in the Border, Midlands and West (BMW) region targeted immediately. Metropolitan area fibre optic networks will be built in these towns to link up with the existing backbone network in the country. The town links will facilitate consumers, educational establishments, industry and business and provide "always on" low cost and high speed Internet access which will drive the Government's e-commerce agenda.

The first phase is being conducted in association with local and regional authorities which will receive 90% funding from the Exchequer. A total of €44 million is already allocated this year in the Department of Public Enterprise vote for the project, which should be completed in full next year at a full cost of €60 million.

Phase two will witness the expansion of broadband networks in the remaining 48 towns. This will be completed through a Public Private Partnership and involve a total investment of another €100 million. Phase two should be completed within three years.

Phase three will involve rolling out the programme to cover all 123 towns in the State with a population of 1,500 or over and the target date for completion is five years.

An important feature of Phase One will be the testing of new technologies (including wireless technology) in three locations. In all, Phase One will see the rollout of 50,000 kilometres of fibre networks.

Independent experts appointed by the Department following a call for proposals last year selected the towns in Phase One. In most instances, local and regional councils have finance in place and will now tender for contractors to install and manage the networks. The programme will provide open access and co-location facilities (independent exchanges). That process is expected to get underway immediately. The programme is fully supported by regional authorities and development agencies.

Minister O' Rourke has appointed an expert team to manage the regional broadband strategy. The team comprises: Chris Horn (Iona Technologies), Kevin Dillon (Microsoft), Martin Murphy (Hewlett Packard), Dr Alastair Glass (Science Foundation Ireland) and Brendan Tuohy (Secretary General, DPE).

Commenting on the programme, Minister O' Rourke stated: "The first two phases will expand broadband to one million people. Effectively what we are doing is providing initially key regional towns with quality and cheap access to the information superhighway. This initiative will provide a boost to industry, business and, more importantly, allow the consumers and educational institutes high speed, quality access."

"We have been working on this project since last year and Government provided the final go-ahead yesterday. This initiative will push Ireland into the top ten of OECD countries for broadband connectivity."

"We have the international links, we have in place significant backbone or inter-county links but what we have been lacking is the final last kilometers of fibre in towns itself. This rectifies that."

"In the medium term we expect that broadband speeds of five megabits to the home and substantially higher for business users will be minimum standard. Our aim is for Ireland to be the first country in Europe to have this level of broadband service widely available."

"This project dovetails with the report of the Infocoms Committee which I received this week. That spoke of the need for greater broadband penetration to re-position Ireland in light of the technology downturn. That downturn appears to be coming to an end and I envisage significant private sector involvement in rolling out services and facilities in the coming two years. The Information Age revolution is only beginning and we want to be at the forefront to seize the opportunities it will provide."

"Allied to this initiative will be the Atlantic Broadband Corridor, which will see the rollout of metro fibre rings on a PPP basis running from Donegal to Cork. This PPP will now be expanded nationally in Phase Two. This is all part of a Government commitment to rectify any regional imbalances. We will not tolerate a two-tier divide in technology."

Other Programmes

As a result of the first call for regional backbone and access networks, €160 million in investment is currently underway with private sector companies. The Minister is currently also in advanced discussions with a number of private sector companies to deliver broadband services and some regional backbone. When contracts are concluded this will mean an additional investment of €50 million.

Phase One:
· The 19 towns and cities in Phase I are: Waterford, Wexford, Carlow, Clonmel, Kilkenny, Cork, Shannon/Limerick, Galway, Athlone, Mullingar, Carrick-on-Shannon, Manorhamilton, Gaoth Dobhair, Roscommon, Port Laoise, Letterkenny, Tullamore, Ballina.

Delphi91

Originally posted by jmcc
...We in Waterford can look down on the village of Dublin as being a mere pretender to the status of city since Waterford is the oldest city in Ireland. ...Regards...jmcc

On a point of information:

In actual fact, Limerick is the oldest city in Ireland. Limerick was granted its charter as a city before Dublin and in actual fact was declared a city even before London was!!!

Mike

jmcc

Originally posted by Delphi91


On a point of information:

In actual fact, Limerick is the oldest city in Ireland. Limerick was granted its charter as a city before Dublin and in actual fact was declared a city even before London was!!!

Nah. We had ship factories here and big stone battlements and stuff. We didn't need an OK from some kip in England to realise that we had the oldest city in Ireland. Since both Waterford and Limerick are older than Dublin I reckon we should have DSL first.

Regards...jmcc

spongebob

DSL = Dublin Should Lose

I have no problem with that.... in the interests of historical propriety of course.

Cork

I am from the 3rd most maginal contituncy - Cork North West

All telephone companies offer universal service - but broadband may be restricted to partiuler areas.

So I think flat rate - when it comes will be a universal service

pete

Originally posted by jmcc


Nah. We had ship factories here and big stone battlements and stuff. We didn't need an OK from some kip in England to realise that we had the oldest city in Ireland. Since both Waterford and Limerick are older than Dublin I reckon we should have DSL first.

Regards...jmcc

Waterford and Limerick may very well be older cities, but I guess Dublin has just been better at it......

(Is this thread sufficiently off topic now?)

Praetorian

Good things never seem to be shared out proportionately throughout the country...Alot of country folk think we have it easy in the Capital but for example the roads here are truely pathetic compared to most of the country...

Looks like the same might happen with broadband

timod

Originally posted by Praetorian
Good things never seem to be shared out proportionately throughout the country...Alot of country folk think we have it easy in the Capital but for example the roads here are truely pathetic compared to most of the country...

obviously, you don't get out much....

Dustaz

Originally posted by jmcc

Since both Waterford and Limerick are older than Dublin I reckon we should have DSL first.

Regards...jmcc

Sorry to disapoint you, but too late:P

You just keep convincing yourself that waterford is a city, and ill keep using me dsl line

keithwhir

whats the story with adsl in galway ???