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Comms Bill in 2nd Stage

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  • 16-03-2002 4:32pm
    #1
    davros
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭


    I note that the Communications Bill will finally be at 2nd Stage in the Seanad this week (on Thursday).

    [That's the next stage after publication, and of course it must yet go to the Dail.]


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    #2
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    I thought Bills went to the Dail before they go to the Seanad? (I had this explained to me recently, but it's all gone again. :)

    adam


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    #3
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    It does appear that bills can be introduced by the seanad. See A Brief Guide to the Legislative Process.
    A Bill can be published without the prior permission of House.
    • In the Dáil, only the Government, and groups provided for in standing orders (seven or more deputies), may present Bills (one Bill at a time from each group). In the current Dáil the groups are Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and The Labour Party.
    • In the Seanad, the Leader of the Seanad may present a bill on behalf of the Government. Groups provided for in standing orders (five or more senators) may also present a bill, but only one bill at a time from each group. In the current Seanad the groups are Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Independent Group.
    The current status of the Bill is here and is due to be debated in the Seanad on Thursday 21st March 2002 at 10.30a.m (see This Week in the Houses of the Oireachtas [19 - 22 MARCH 2002]).


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    #4
    neverhappen
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭neverhappen


    The current status of the Bill is here and is due to be debated in the Seanad on Thursday 21st March 2002 at 10.30a.m (see This Week in the Houses of the Oireachtas [19 - 22 MARCH 2002]).

    Any news on this ?


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    #5
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    I saw it being debated this afternoon at about 4pm - didn't catch the end though, so i don't know what happened.


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    #6
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by pete
    I saw it being debated this afternoon at about 4pm - didn't catch the end though, so i don't know what happened.
    We'll probably have to wait till next week when it gets put up on the web. There's about a two working day delay on this.


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    #7
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    I'll see what i can find out tomorrow.


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    #8
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    According to the Irish Times business section the comms bill appears to have been castrated due to "limited time" available to get it all through...


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    #9
    vinnyfitz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭vinnyfitz


    Bills that start in the Seanad finish in the Seanad.
    The Seanad will still sit after the Dail adjourns for the election - In fact it can still sit untill polling day therefore there is a greater chance of getting the final, technical stages of the legislation through - its a trick to prioritise Bills in the closing days of a Government.


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    #10
    Fergus
    Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Fergus


    Hmm.. no sign of the Communications Bill in the Seanad on Thursday..

    Oh well.. I'm not really too surprised.


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    #11
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    Originally posted by Fergus
    Hmm.. no sign of the Communications Bill in the Seanad on Thursday..

    Oh well.. I'm not really too surprised.

    Ehh it was debated, as scheduled.

    edit:

    in fact, a quick search gets you this:

    http://www.irlgov.ie/debates-02/s21march/sect3.htm#com

    Unfortunately you have to page down a fair bit, or do a search for "Communications Regulations Bill, 2002"

    *spoiler*


    i don't want to ruin it for everyone, but
    Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 26 March 2002


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    #12
    Fergus
    Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Fergus


    sorry my mistake.. only looked at the this week in the oireachtas summary.. briefly :)


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    #13
    Fergus
    Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Fergus


    Dr. Henry:
    Some areas were excluded from the Bill and maybe we should try to include them. One of those is a flat access rate to the Internet. Fortunately, my children are old enough to pay for themselves when they use the Internet, but this is a matter in which the mothers of Ireland have a great interest. Can we tackle this now? Is there some reason for excluding that from the Bill? It is a very important issue.
    Mary O'Rourke:
    On the flat rate for Internet access, Senator Henry spoke as a parent of children who now earn their own living, as I do, but the rate is enormously expensive. We hope the broadband infrastructure, details of which I sent to everybody and which will be 90% funded by the Government with 10% being put in by the local authorities, will result in very competitive rates. The market will then take over and drive down the price because of that infrastructure being in place.


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    #14
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    Originally posted by Fergus
    sorry my mistake.. only looked at the this week in the oireachtas summary.. briefly :)

    Well alright - but don't let it happen again.

    ;)


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    #15
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    It's a fascinating read. And, as usual in the Seanad, occasionally quite comical. I highly recommend it.
    Mr. Coghlan: The Minister for Finance is mentioned constantly in the Bill---

    Mrs. O'Rourke: He has been here in the House. He is pre-eminent in all our activities.

    Mr. Coghlan: The point I am making is that the office of the Minister for Finance is so dominant and appears in so many sections. It appears one cannot go to the toilet without asking the permission of the master, the Minister for Finance.

    Mrs. O'Rourke: That could be interesting.
    McGreedy gets another few mentions later on, it appears the House thinks he's attemptying a wee coup d'etat.

    Again, fascinating. I must pop up sometime and listen in.

    adam


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    #16
    davros
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭davros


    This bit is curious:
    (Minister) The unbundling of the local loop springs to mind, which Brussels now declares is unimportant after we spent so much effort on it
    I checked the latest European competition report on local loop unbundling here (March 2002) and the gist is the complete opposite. It says unbundling has been a disaster so far and the lack of progress severely detrimental to broadband provision in Europe.


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    #17
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Errah, the Minister seems to say whatever is most convenient at times. That comment is utter guff anyway (with respect, Minister). The relevant section of the debate, which spanned two pages, is available on the IrelandOffline site here.

    adam


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    #18
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    McGreedy gets another few mentions later on, it appears the House thinks he's attemptying a wee coup d'etat.

    Perhaps Charlie is a wee bit pissed at Etain for pulling the rug from under him on 3G licences, and doesn't want it to happen again?

    adam


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    #19
    timod
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭timod


    Originally posted by dahamsta
    Errah, the Minister seems to say whatever is most convenient at times. That comment is utter guff anyway (with respect, Minister). The relevant section of the debate, which spanned two pages, is available on the IrelandOffline site here.

    adam

    Love the bit where the minister mentions the "3D" license...


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    #20
    pete
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭pete


    3D?

    She's a big Dudley Boys fan, you know.

    Ehh seriously though as far as I know, these things are transcibed from audio recordings, so blame the typist.


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    #21
    Xian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭Xian


    Mr. Bonner
    We considered whether this Bill could create indictable offences for breaches of obligations already specified in separate regulations but we were advised that such a provision would require substantial legal analysis by the Attorney General. Accordingly, it was not open for me to proceed at that time with some of the enforcement measures proposed in the general scheme. However, as previously indicated, the Bill does include a provision enabling prosecution on indictment of breaches of licence conditions, with a maximum fine of1,000,000.
    The functions of the commission are set out in section 10. These are:
    *to ensure compliance by undertakings with obligations in relation to the supply of and access to electronic communications services, networks and associated facilities;...

    Mr. Coughlan
    It will also increase penalties for the commission of certain offences
    It is only right that penalties imposed for breach of the regulations should be severe.
    Enforcement could be less effective in this instance because, if I have interpreted the Bill correctly, a file would have to go to the Director of Public Prosecutions. The DPP's office has a great habit of sitting on things, in some cases for considerable periods of time, possibly even a year. Offenders would be well aware of the delays in the DPP's office. Human nature being what it is, I fear they may decide to carry on offending regardless. I am not convinced the enforcement measures the Minister has outlined in the Bill are adequate to meet the criteria she has in mind.

    Dr. Henry
    Like Senator Coghlan, I wonder why matters have to go to the DPP. Could the commission not be in a position to pursue these things themselves? The DPP will be dealing with appalling cases such as murders and rapes and will have to give priority to such cases above fining various telecommunications networks. Can that be changed?

    Mrs O'Rourke
    <nothing>

    The current impasse is due largely to the fact that the Regulator has been sent into the lion's den with a letter opener (a £1,500 fine) and a nuclear device (revocation of a telco's licence): the one useless, the other unusable. It is no wonder she has been treading carefully.

    Is there anything in the Bill in its current form to give the impression that they are not just sending two more people in with slightly bigger letter openers?


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