NATIONAL PUBLIC PETITION, for cheap internet access ?? NOW.

Paddy20

Would you sign a petition in your home town- requesting the to Government to introduce NEW legislation allowing for a cheap flat-rate internet access service;- NOW ??...

Four Options are available to you on this "POLL"

1, Yes

2, No

3, Maybe

4, Undecided

Its your choice - decision time?..

Please, participate by voting in this URGENT - NEW - "POLL" or express your view by way of a message??...

Yours, paddy20.

Frank Grimes

I can't see the government legislating for something like this. Can they even do it, considering the telecos are private companies?

Paddy20

Reply to David_Grimes from,paddy20.

Of course the Government can legislate, although they might prefer "not" too have to think about it?. The Government is elected by the people to act for and in the best interest of the - People of Ireland - Where do you think new laws come from or are "Legislated" for - it is the DAIL?.

Currently, in my humble opinion - and I stand to be corrected if I am wrong?.. Eircom, was a public utility belonging to the "State" i.e. the people of Ireland?. It was then "Sold" from under our noses - to private vested interests, who do not give a damn about the general public?. As far as I can recall one of the first things that happened after "privatisation"?.. Was the cost of making a "LOCAL" telephone call was increased by 400%, and they were allowed to get away with that - unwarranted & inexscusable liberty or "CON"??.

Eircom is behaving as if it still is a monopoly. Which is against EU law in relation to a "Free and open marketplace throughout the EU??. They, Eircom are deliberately "blocking" an open market by charging NEW competitors an outrageous wholesale price for landline time. This again is againt the spirit of fair and open competition in the Irish telecomms business. The Government if they wanted to put things back to as they should be - "Buy back Eircom and its landlines, which were laid by our last generation of Irish citizens as a "PUBLIC UTILITY". Now look at the "FIASCO" licenses are being granted to new telecoms companies to supply a telephone service??. under EU law, but Eircom can stifle their aspirations to give the publica fair deal - re: Internet online charges!! . This Government is guilty of neglecting the needs of the people of Ireland in relation to fixed rate basic Unmetered internet online usage costs. A situation that can not be allowed to continue, especially when people in another part of our Island are enjoying "Unmetered" internet access online, for as little as STG£15.00 per month set fee??.. I want the same here ?? Do YOU ? and no offence meant.

I hope I have made my point which is ;- The real power lies in the hands of the general public?. Governments are elected to serve the people - competently - and on this important vital issue they are proving to be seriously incompetent, and deliberately trying to put people off campaigning!!, by issuing media releases full of unmitigated "red tape" and "doublespeak" in Eircoms favour??.

Thats all for now.

God bless & good luck to you.;)

Yours,paddy20. (Now exhausted ??. I am going to have a nap) ?..

Frank Grimes

It's Frank actually

It's not that I don't want flat rate access, I just don't think the government will do anything about it. It's like everything else in the country, price control doesn't exist. If the government won't introduce any measures to control inflation e.g price controls on the 'essentials', they are *not* going to be too pushed about 'net access.
And from the telcos point of view, it's all about money, as in, there's more to be made from pay as you use etc. etc.

Paddy20

Reply to "Frank_Grimes from, paddy20.

My sincere apologies Frank. Where on earth did the name David spring from ??.. I must have been thinking of the "David & Goliath propaganda battle that lies ahead"- I can sence it coming , but have no "FEAR"!! PADDYS HERE??. Paddy is my real name by the way, is Frank yours ?...

God bless & Good luck, To ALL - I think we may need it??..

Yours,paddy20. ( I need a cup of tea ?? Thats whats wrong with me, then a nap/snooze,ZZZZZZ.).

stormkeeper

I would have no hesitation in signing this petition. I could even get a few more signatures, hopefully.

stormkeeper

I also agree with Paddy in that how is it that another part of this island can have unmetered net access, yet we can't? I mean, we are exactly the same as them in terms of practically everything... Another point is that they are even smaller than us, and so may have a smaller income (although I could be wrong- could soeone correct me on this?) than we do.

Frank Grimes

Geographically, it is another part of the island. In nearly everything else there's major differences.

stormkeeper

Would I be right in assuming that they'd get a lot of their income from the UK Mainland?

Beastie Boy

Frank Grimes said:
I can't see the government legislating for something like this. Can they even do it, considering the telecos are private companies?

Paddy20 replied:
Of course the Government can legislate, although they might prefer "not" too have to think about it?. The Government is elected by the people to act for and in the best interest of the - People of Ireland - Where do you think new laws come from or are "Legislated" for - it is the DAIL?.

Paddy, I doubt you can talk anymore shíte than you already are. When you furnish your cranium with some factual solutions to the big problems the internet in Ireland has, then you can start ranting and raving. YOU ARE CLUELESS !!

I suggest, you resarch the previous posts and bring yourself up to speed with mate:)

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by Kennett
Would I be right in assuming that they'd get a lot of their income from the UK Mainland?

Who are you referring to?

stormkeeper

Northern Ireland

Frank Grimes

Yeah, why wouldn't they? They are a part of the UK.

dromoland

Now you're talking Paddy. Your petition idea could be the best thing to date to put pressure on the telcos via the Government particularly with an election coming up. From my understanding the present Government have recently given an undertaking to provide millions in subsidies to the telcos (and may have already done so) for laying fibre optic cable and improving the telecommunicatons in Ireland. (I'm sure there are others here who can inform us more precisely on this.) If that's the case then surely the Government have some leverage over the telcos. So what are the Government demanding back from the telcos in return to fill the urgent need NOW for unmetered interet access. Precisely nothing.

We keep hearing in this forum that FRIACO could be made available instantly by Eircom. Why isn't is.

Those people who think the Government can't legislate should look at what happened in Britain. Like Eircom BT held up the liberalisation of internet communications for ages. But when the Government threatened to legislate the situation soon changed and the market was opened up.

The main concern of all governments and opposition parties is votes, votes and votes. So if a petition can be got going and enough people sign it then the Government and opposition parties will read into those signatures as votes. There's an election coming up, what are we waiting for.

dromoland

dahamsta

Those people who think the Government can't legislate should look at what happened in Britain. Like Eircom BT held up the liberalisation of internet communications for ages. But when the Government threatened to legislate the situation soon changed and the market was opened up.

FRIACO was released in the UK because MCI Worldcom attempted to negotiate a wholesale flat-rate product with BT; were unable to; and eventually lodged a complaint with Oftel. To date, no ISP or operator in Ireland has visibly attempted to negotiate a wholesale flat-rate product with Eircom; or lodged a complaint with the ODTR. The Director's position is that unless she believes that negotiations have broken down; or a complaint is lodged, it is not within her remit to intervene. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen, but those are the facts.

adam

yellum

Originally posted by Kennett
Would I be right in assuming that they'd get a lot of their income from the UK Mainland?

Sorry to go off topic but UK mainland ? What do you mean mainland ? Next you'll be calling Ireland "The West UK"

Back on topic, I agree with Adam, until a Telco here tries to negotiate for friaco with Eircom and the talks break down the ODTR can't do anything. In fairness I don't think the government has a right or the power to force a private company to sell a product they don't want to.

dahamsta

Back on topic, I agree with Adam, until a Telco here tries to negotiate for friaco with Eircom and the talks break down the ODTR can't do anything.

At the risk of getting myself larted by the ODTR (again), I think it's important to point out that we don't know whether the ODTR /can't/ do anything or /won't/ do anything. The ODTR says it can't. This document - which is admittedly and obviously going to be biased, but still hasn't been refuted to my satisfaction - seems to say that they won't.

The ODTR argues that FRIACO can only be mandated in discriminatory situations (where the incumbent releases a retail product), or when a complaint has been lodged. Countries that continue to come up are the UK (where there was a complaint) and Germany (where a retail product hasn't been released). I concede those, but what about the other countries listed in the document above? Are AOL deliberately trying to mislead us? Or is the ODTR taking the easy way out?

In fairness I don't think the government has a right or the power to force a private company to sell a product they don't want to.

In ordinary, competitive circumstances I agree with you, but these circumstances are neither ordinary nor competitive.

adam

Tellox

Currently, in my humble opinion - and I stand to be corrected if I am wrong?.. Eircom, was a public utility belonging to the "State" i.e. the people of Ireland?. It was then "Sold" from under our noses - to private vested interests, who do not give a damn about the general public?. As far as I can recall one of the first things that happened after "privatisation"?.. Was the cost of making a "LOCAL" telephone call was increased by 400%, and they were allowed to get away with that - unwarranted & inexscusable liberty or "CON"??.

Eircom is behaving as if it still is a monopoly. Which is against EU law in relation to a "Free and open marketplace throughout the EU??. They, Eircom are deliberately "blocking" an open market by charging NEW competitors an outrageous wholesale price for landline time. This again is againt the spirit of fair and open competition in the Irish telecomms business. The Government if they wanted to put things back to as they should be - "Buy back Eircom and its landlines, which were laid by our last generation of Irish citizens as a "PUBLIC UTILITY". Now look at the "FIASCO" licenses are being granted to new telecoms companies to supply a telephone service??. under EU law, but Eircom can stifle their aspirations to give the publica fair deal - re: Internet online charges!! . This Government is guilty of neglecting the needs of the people of Ireland in relation to fixed rate basic Unmetered internet online usage costs. A situation that can not be allowed to continue, especially when people in another part of our Island are enjoying "Unmetered" internet access online, for as little as STG£15.00 per month set fee??.. I want the same here ?? Do YOU ? and no offence meant.

I hope I have made my point which is ;- The real power lies in the hands of the general public?. Governments are elected to serve the people - competently - and on this important vital issue they are proving to be seriously incompetent, and deliberately trying to put people off campaigning!!, by issuing media releases full of unmitigated "red tape" and "doublespeak" in Eircoms favour??.

*claps* beautiful stuff paddy
some real irish spirit there


too right I'll join any force to help our cause... travel any distance... you should speak with the IOffL commitee and make it more public

Paddy20

Originally posted by Frank_Grimes

It's not that I don't want flat rate access, I just don't think the government will do anything about it. It's like everything else in the country, price control doesn't exist. If the government won't introduce any measures to control inflation e.g price controls on the 'essentials', they are *not* going to be too pushed about 'net access.
And from the telcos point of view, it's all about money, as in, there's more to be made from pay as you use etc. etc. [/B]

Frank, Please elaborate on what you mean by "price controls" on the "ESSENTIALS"?.. If you mean - retailail price for goods i.e "food prices" - An OPEN COMPETITIVE MARKET - already exists in that sector of our supposed "Democracy?.. Even Here in Donegal, in my home town of "Ballybofey" open competition is fierce in the "Grocery retail trade"- and as a "Diabled" bachelor I and every one else here benefits from "lower" priced good which obviously vary in price - from shop to shop - in a REAL open and competive maketplace.

However, Eircom, and the -New- Telecos are in the "SERVICES/BUSINESS sector?.. They are supposed to be allowed to operate in an open marketplace supplying telephone and related "essential" services and related fairly priced flat-rate internet access charges - but the NEW Telecos are NOT being allowed to do this?.. These "Service industry Companies" are being stifled in - what they can charge the public - As Eircom is being "allowed" by our Government - to behave as if they are STILL a MONOPOlOLY//.. . EU Legislation requires that the telecomms marketplace be opened up to the natural forces of an unfettered marketplace unhindered by bullies acting as if they own a monopoly in what is under EU Legislation supposed to be an open and equitable marketplace where "fair- pricces are set by free market forces ie the buying - end user - the public , and that means you , me and every other "citizen" in Ireland??...

It is long past time for our "Government" to act / or be TOLD to ACT NOW?.. by us the ordinary prople of Ireland??.. For them to act by using the powers / mandate they inherited when elected by us to - Govern - on our behalf, and follow EU Directives to force a free open marketplace on the Telecomms industry, especially re: the need for a flat- rate internet access fixed online "Unmetered access deal for us the consumers of Irelands commercial services?.. ASAP. "Do you see what I am getting at" - in my own particular way. Which -no doubt- some may not agree with ?.. BUT at least - Free Speech"- has not as - yet - been Legislated against - or "Monopolised" in this our Island called "Ireland" which is renowened all over the World for our peoples generous spirit - which is not being reflected by our Government on behafl of those who elected them. They had better act Now on the Internet access for all issue - before it is too late "For them" and "EIRCOM" Their days of "blatant arrogance", ignorance and worship of money and illegal profiteering - against the wishes of the people, could now be drawing to a close??..

Yours,paddy20.:cool:

Frank Grimes

paddy20, take a look at this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44591
and
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44632

Things are changing re. Eircom's posistion.

And regarding my earlier post, all I am saying is that if the government won't do anything to curb inflation, control house prices etc. then they will not imho do anything to force telcos to provide flat rate access.

Paddy20

Frank, Many thanks for referring me to the links "very interesting" but I am still not "impressed" or "satisfied" ??..

I admit that I am NO TECHNO WHIZZKID - and all this techno- babble??.. is way over MY HEAD.

If it means that "ordinary people" just like me - Will be offered "the choice" of choosing a basic dial-up 56k modem flat-rate "fixed Monthly fee internet service" at a fair price, as is currently available "IN ANOTHER PART OF "THIS" COUNTRY " then great ??..

However, IF NOT - Then I and I am sure the vast majority of ordinary "Domestic users" just like me - "Will not br satisfied" ??.. I still want a flat rate fixed fee - Unmetered - monthly online iternet access service - NOW, as of RIGHT?.. Can I please have it for my 56k dial up modem computer set up - which is costing me a fortune in unreasonably high Eircom "local call" internet link charges on my two monthly telephone bill - or is that beyond the Government and Eircoms comprehension.

I have the time??. as disabled/housebound, but I - DO NOT - have the - financial reseources - to pay more than about Euros 25.00 i.e .about the same as those Irish citizens living in another part of this Island??.. who are paying on average STG£15.00 por Month fixed fee - unlimited online time/internet usage, in a free open marketplace in relation too their internet access needs and what a competitive marketplace has decided to charge them??..

I recenty read somewhere that "Eircom" could introduce the same service to the "domestic" market here - tomorrow - if they wanted to??..

So, Finally - let me state clearly that - they HAD BETTER do it NOW?.. as a "Necessary"- PUBLIC UTILITY NEED, requirement. Otherwise I will step up the "pressure" by - demanding answers in the DAIL?.. through my TDs using their power to insist on a "debate" in the house??. As to why the Government is allowing Eircom away with their outrageous disdain towards their customers right to a flat rate dial up basic "Unmetered internet access service HERE on this part of our Island??.. NOW as of right. SPECIAL NOTE TO BUSINESS INTERNET USERS: I think you have enough political this worthy cause, plus your own internet needs??..

yours paddy20. and "Good Luck to you all - I think we still need a break??...

Frank Grimes

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of the situation as it is, like I have said, I just cannot see them doing it. That's just my 2c, I hope I'm proved wrong.

Paddy20

Another message from paddy20.

And this Poll is not going to be ignored by me either??.

What is the "Business community" and their "Chambers" of Commerce - doing to support their customers - Joe Public - on the issue in hand.

Why are the - politicians - so quiet??..

Any enlightening answers will be responded too, the cynical "give up brigade will in future not be receiving any response from this kiddo.

paddy20.:rolleyes:

Cpl. Hicks

yo yo mudder ****ers

now that i have ur attention,
i just want 2 say
howaye

and

how exactly do u propose 2 make the gov bow 2 ur very reasonable demands

also

can i have a custom saying & avatar

while im at it

hi kenny
how u doin?

Paddy20

Reply to Cpl. Hicks.

See my posting - under - "THE Irish people don"t want this" - Thread.

Re:- Using one of the - National newspapers - as a platform to carry out a real NATIONAL SURVEY ??.. If the cause is a worthy one in the eyes of the newspaper Editor??. He can publish a story in support of the aims and aspirations of the - Unpaid - Voluntary Organisation - who in this case is obviously "Ireland OFFline" and its Committee. There gallant efforts so far on gehalf of ALL of us - warrants recognition -.

Presently the world of - Newspaper publishing - is fiercely- competitive ?? remember the demise of The Irish Press, The Evening Press and The Sunday Press -??.

The - Natinional Newspaper - showing that it has a heart and real concern for the "General Public" could carrythis whole matter on to a NEW LEVEL of effectiveness by printing a poll of its readershipon this issue - FREE OF CHARGE - in co-operation with a Organisation with an established track record ??.. Thereby doing it doing itself some good from a PUBLIC RELATIONS, point of view. While if they handled it as "AN EXCLUSIVE SURVEY" they then have won a propaganda war against their competitors??. Get it.

So, Please - STEP FORWARD - the first National newspaper??..I am waiting to see "Who" has a human heart. Otherwise a "Campaign fund" will have to beset up for voluntary donations so that the necessary "Advertising space" can be bought from the newspapers Adverting section which operates seperately from the "editorial" pages ??, butis just as effective - the only real differance is that we would all have to "Contribute" towards the cost of buying the space in the most powerful Newspaper in the land??.

All comments welcome tothis suggestion.

Finally, Cpl.Hicks, for Gods sake get rid of that gun ??.. otherwise you will be reduced in rank back to being an "Ordinary squaddie again?.. and youwould not like that - would you.

Best wishes,

Yours, paddy20.;)

sceptre

Originally posted by dahamsta
To date, no ISP or operator in Ireland has visibly attempted to negotiate a wholesale flat-rate product with Eircom; or lodged a complaint with the ODTR. The Director's position is that unless she believes that negotiations have broken down; or a complaint is lodged, it is not within her remit to intervene. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen, but those are the facts.

adam

So much so that even when some idiot at the seminar asked Derek Kickham to turn to Etain Doyle and say "hi Etain, haven't heard from Eircom in two months, negotiations have broken down", nothing was done.

sceptre

Originally posted by paddy20

What is the "Business community" and their "Chambers" of Commerce - doing to support their customers - Joe Public - on the issue in hand.

Not a great deal at times, unfortunately. So much so that the chair of the Small Firms Assoc made an ass of himself (at least that's what people around here thought) when he kow-towed to Eircom and said that there wasn't any demand for anything faster than isdn or cheaper than dialup

Quick edit - just noticed you included the "business community" along with the organisations. The actual businesses have an interest in this where they are aware that there's a possible alternative to the current situation. And they've been helpful (they themselves also benefit, nothing wrong with that). It's not their job to provide cheap internet access for anyone save themselves though. If they want to get organised in a movement from which they will also benefit, great. It's certainly not the job of a local business to get involved in providing me, joe Consumer, with home/consumer flat-rate or DSL though.

Paddy20

Originally posted by sceptre


Not a great deal at times, unfortunately. So much so that the chair of the Small Firms Assoc made an ass of himself (at least that's what people around here thought) when he kow-towed to Eircom and said that there wasn't any demand for anything faster than isdn or cheaper than dialup

Quick edit - just noticed you included the "business community" along with the organisations. The actual businesses have an interest in this where they are aware that there's a possible alternative to the current situation. And they've been helpful (they themselves also benefit, nothing wrong with that). It's not their job to provide cheap internet access for anyone save themselves though. If they want to get organised in a movement from which they will also benefit, great. It's certainly not the job of a local business to get involved in providing me, joe Consumer, with home/consumer flat-rate or DSL though.

sceptre:- What I am suggesting to the "Business sectoras a whole" and their "Chambers of Commerce" branchs that are spread throughout Ireland. Is this:- " That I believe that they should "PUBLICLY" step forward and announce that "THEY" the business sector "SUPPORT" Ireland OFFlines Voluntary Committee, their aims and aspiration and the honourable efforts they have made too date on behalf of the "General publics" need and all internet users "right" to a fair and equitable - Unmetered access flat-rate (fairly priced) internet access service??. Or am I asking too much - businessmen are not known for being backward at coming forward "In their own interests" So, why has some large corporation "COME OUT" publicly and announce that the support the IOFFL Campaign and its members??. I also believe that some Giant Business, may I suggest someone like "MICROSOFT" who have a large Irish base - show their support pro-actively by "SPONSORING " this campaign by way of a large "CASH" donation too Ireland OFFline, a purely -non-profit- or NOT for profit - Voluntary Organisation managed by an UNPAID voluntary Committee - that clearly needs funding??..i.e. Money in the Bank. Bill Gates is renowned throughout the world for giving away millions too worthy causes??.. what better than a worthy cause that is indirectly or directly related too his own Computer industry interests, and which probably would be one of those who would benefit from the liberalisation of the Telecomms services sector/fiasco- that currently is stifling everyone - The business sector as well as the "Social general public and **Disabled & Housebound. Maybe - just maybe ??- the time has arrived for all of us to take the gloves off and "Punch back" NOW.

Yours,paddy20;)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by sceptre
So much so that even when some idiot at the seminar asked Derek Kickham to turn to Etain Doyle and say "hi Etain, haven't heard from Eircom in two months, negotiations have broken down", nothing was done.

I thought that was one of the best questions of the seminar.

Paddy20

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I thought that was one of the best questions of the seminar.

I like that one ??. I also "love the way " the VOTES are heading in this POLL??.. but will the "politicos" or "Eircom".

Now,I CAN NOT remember how much longer this POLL has to run before "TIME-OUT"??..

Maybe, "dahamsta" Adam - might please "JOG" my memory??.

Best wishes , yours, an impoverished internet user called paddy20.

stormkeeper

I'm surprised we got so many people answering the poll... at least we know the majority of voters want cheap net access, so that accounts for someting

PS: i think the poll runs until the 10th of April