Anyone else worried by this?

Sand

I think everyone by now must have heard of the terrorist murder of the Italian economist advising Italys government on labour laws. I find it worrying that this sort of act can occur inside the present day EU, and given the nature of the EUs control over economic matters the possibility that the left wingers involved may carry their campaign outside of Italy to strike at anyone who disagrees with them outside of Italy. With the rise of left wing militancy weve seen over the past few years politicial murders like these become more and more likely.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0320/breaking73.htm

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0320/breaking11.htm

an offshoot of the Red Brigades, an Italian urban guerilla movement

Seems urban guerillas is the new " " term for terrorism.

DadaKopf

Cop on. And I suppose we should all worry about our safety because the Bader Meinhof were active in the 70s and 80s, too.

Clintons Cat

another version of the story here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1882000/1882368.stm

Clintons Cat

from the guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4378392,00.html

It emerged that the intelligence services were aware that Biagi, a father of two, was a potential target but no bodyguards were provided. A five-pointed star, the Red Brigades' mark, was found scratched on a wall near his home, but it was unclear when it was made.

An intelligence report presented to parliament last week warned of the risk of attacks to people linked to the government's domestic and foreign policies, including people "from politics, unions or the business world who are most committed to economic, social and labour reforms, especially those who play a crucial role as experts or consultants".

Newspapers were asked several weeks ago to stop identifying Biagi, a consultant to labour minister Roberto Maroni, as one of the key authors of the controversial reforms.

Somewhere along the line vital intelligenge was not acted upon.
I find it very sad.

Sand

Cop on. And I suppose we should all worry about our safety because the Bader Meinhof were active in the 70s and 80s, too.

No, we should be worried because the left wingers are murdering people in 2002. We should also be worried because the militant left which rampaged through Genoa amongst other cities looks like a perfect breeding ground for this sort of terrorism.

Monkey

their methods make them right-wing fascists in my book

Boston

you really know sweet fa about italy dont you

potlatch

No, we should be worried because the left wingers are murdering people in 2002. We should also be worried because the militant left which rampaged through Genoa amongst other cities looks like a perfect breeding ground for this sort of terrorism.

Gotten Himmel. Fella, the 250,000 people hardly rampaged, the Black Bloc and some militant anarchists attempted to get over the barriers and some attacked shop fronts but if there was any rampage, it was by the Carabinieri. The protests were well organised, well stewarded and well conducted.

You also totally misrepresent the intentions and desires of those who involve themselves in anti-corporate or anti-capitalist demonstations and activities. There is no underlying current of violence or murder or anti-democratic, highly illegal plots. On the contrary, everyone is committed to democracy and public protest and political representation. The violence people see on television or read in newspapers should be characterised as 'belligerancy' but not violence. Even the rhetoric of the more pro-active, revolutionary, non-reformist groups like the Black Bloc, the SWP and the anarchists inflate the reality of their desires, but they're really focused on change through protest and belligerancy, not violence, destruction and murder. In any case, the anti-corporate movement is a popular movement - most people are politically unaligned and uphold democracy, no need to get scared, Sand. And before you criticise them for belligerancy, just recall the history of this country and the Suffragette movement.

From reading information on the Red Faction, they sound like an extremely small group who, over the past 31 years have killed 10 people in 4 attacks, one of which resulted in the organisation's dismantling. They seem unprofessional, isolated to Italy and limited in resources. Not only that but they don't represent anyone: they have attacked fascists and trade union members (so they're conservative, out of date, hardcore Marxists) and on top of that, they have probably alienated any kind of communist politicians in parliament who may be lenient on them (but I'm unaware of the party share). To top that off, they totally misrepresent the movement as a whole. Like I said, protest and belligerency is one thing but to go so far as assassination? No bloody way.

No way is this episode going to turn the tide of public opinion, even though, I'm sure, a lot of people would like it to. Don't cry, Sand.

Sand

If theyre so democratic why did they feel the need for violence? Ive seen peaceful demonstrations and Ive seen Genoa. Hell of a difference. If only 1% of the people at Genoa were ready to use violence to further their aims (duh - what was Genoa but violence) thats still plenty of people. And thats merely counting the people at Genoa.

Typedef

Originally posted by Sand
If theyre so democratic why did they feel the need for violence? .

Are you alluding to the USA and UK here or the the 'left wing' protesters? Seems a bit of a double standard now doesn't it, if the US and UK are so democratic then why do they feel the need to bomb a certain Iraqi dictator they once supported for the purposes of opposing the Iranians? If that isn't a double standard then what is.

Moriarty

Originally posted by Sand


No, we should be worried because the left wingers are murdering people in 2002. We should also be worried because the militant left which rampaged through Genoa amongst other cities looks like a perfect breeding ground for this sort of terrorism.

Remember that Eta have been assassinating polical figures in spain and the basque areas for many years, and continue to do so. Italy is far from alone in this sort of thing, unfortunatly. The organisations do not reach outside their national boundaries though, exluding a few occasions when they attacked their own country-men in other parts of the EU.

Its unlikely to ever directly effect us here..

Gargoyle

Originally posted by Typedef


Are you alluding to the USA and UK here or the the 'left wing' protesters? Seems a bit of a double standard now doesn't it, if the US and UK are so democratic then why do they feel the need to bomb a certain Iraqi dictator they once supported <snip>

How about for the purpose of protecting their citizens Typedef. Of course, you already knew the answer.


FYI - Rhetorical questions are not helpful.

Typedef

Wether I knew the answer or not is irrelevant.
My point if it has 'somehow' managed to escape you is that

if the US and UK are so democratic then why do they feel the need to bomb a certain Iraqi dictator they once supported for the purposes of opposing the Iranians?

Oh and if I want advice from you I shall ask, thanks for the info though.

Gargoyle

Originally posted by Typedef
Wether I knew the answer or not is irrelevant.
My point if it has 'somehow' managed to escape you is that

I answered your question, although you conveniently ignored it

Originally posted by Typedef
Oh and if I want advice from you I shall ask, thanks for the info though.

If I want to give you advice I'll give it. This is a bulletin board you know.

ReefBreak

Even the rhetoric of the more pro-active, revolutionary, non-reformist groups like the Black Bloc, the SWP and the anarchists inflate the reality of their desires, but they're really focused on change through protest and belligerancy, not violence, destruction and murder.

Black Bloc, SWP and the Anarchists don't use violence and destruction to promote their aims? Rubbish. e.g. The Black Bloc are "violently opposed to all forms of public ownership."

In any case, the anti-corporate movement is a popular movement - most people are politically unaligned...

It appeared from the television (and from every lamp-post around Dublin at the time) that the anti-corporate movement were very hard-left (Socialist, Communist). One had only to view the ocean of red flags (communist and otherwise) to see this. It's more than likely that the "The Red Brigades for the Construction of a Combatant Communist Party (BR-PCC)" who claimed responsibility for the Biagi murder were in the thick of those protests. Perhaps they're still pissed off about the whole collapse of communism in Eastern Europe...

Sand

Gargoyle dont waste too much time with Typedef. Hes not looking for an answer, he just wants to turn the thread into a US/UK one.

ETA's exscuses for murder involved national identity mostly from what I know - my concerns over this is the fact that A) Italys economy is now guided to a significant degree by the EU, especially with the Euro and fiscal discipline required to maintain it. Its possible these murderers might decide to hit targets outside of Italy due to that. The rise of a militant left has been noticeable over the past few years, the Biagi murder can also be viewed in that light. Even if only a fraction of those who think attacking police officers and destroying private property is some meaningful political statement go a step farther to murder....

Von

We've had the infamous "teddy bear strategy" and that dangerous "Balloon Fall" so now the next logical step is to go round shooting people. Obviously.

Luca Casarini's statement regarding the murder.

What happened in Bologna is a horrible pro-regime homicide. I reaffirm this and I will continue to state this with all my might along with thousands and thousands of people, knowing that this thought is shared by a lot of people.

What does this mean? It means that it is not the “terrorism”, as the term is being used, of a previous time in this country. Nor is it the “strategy of tension”, which was inaugurated in 1969 with a state planted fascist bomb in Piazza Fontana. Those two settings were completely different from today, as were the culture, the political and social climate in Italy as in the rest of the world. The needs of the various state apparatus were different, the “field of action”, the nation-state was different. The thinking of thousands of youth, who wanted to fight with arms, was different.

Professor Biagi has been killed in this time, today. Whoever reads the delirious emails going round from those claiming responsibility can come to understand a great deal. The culture expressed in those pages is dead and buried, with the society and among the extraordinary new movements struggling for a new democracy.

That culture which speaks of “imperialism” instead, as we do, of Empire, that culture which wants the “Dictatorship of the Proleteriat” (what proleteriat? Dictatorship? Of what... globalization?) and not real democracy; those skillfully composed phrases from highly informed notions of economics and absurd prehistoric readings of social development are not expressions of a living, real subjectivity.

They betray an abstraction of reasoning which belongs more to maniacal psychotic pathology than to political line. To attribute to this, as some are doing, a “destabilizing design” would be like attributing to it the crime of the Florence “Monster” or to a serial killer who comes out here and there. These are serial homicides not actions expressing a political will. But they become political because they get spinned as such by some political “manoeuvrer”. They are homicides that stabilize. They serve only those who want to stop the large-scale movements, to those who want to drag us into a war against civilians, as we have seen in Genova, New York and Afgahnistan in order to produce a new despotic, anti-democratic sovereignty in which violation of human rights is standard fare.

It was a pro-regime homicide not only for the ignoble political uses for which it is applied by the Italian Manufacturers Association, the government and political apparatuses, even those of the Left which instead of saying what they know deep down continue to cover up evidence. It was also because it had been announced, even called for by ministers, cabinet members, and undersecretaries. It was called for because the social struggles for rights and democracy, which had expressed itself in these years in such a radical, pacifist, disobedient way, still posed a danger.

Marco Biagi knew he was in danger.

He had asked many times for protection but was denied it by Minister Scajola of Genoa.

The article in a weekly magazine that clearly depicted Biagi as a target should probably be read as an attempt by someone within one of the apparatuses to make the plan to kill Biagi fail.

The article had the sense to say as much in its preface. Even the telephone call received by the professor on Tuesday should be read more as a warning than a threat.

If someone wants to kill you, they dont warn you first.

Here we are in the presence of a clash between State apparatuses. It is this complexity that explains the pro-regime homicide.

It is the use of the one and the other - seven sickos with a famous logo and the military which moves about in full liberty - that explains what is happening now. While immigrants are confronted by navy boats, the government calls a state of emergency. While more and more impunity is shown towards the powerful and corrupt, the weak are thrown in prison. While control of information is centralized into fewer hands in a society that lives on information, the regime trys to block independent media out of existence.

These are my thoughts.

About these things in the last delirious document put out by the sect that calls itself NTA.

I have been targeted as someone to take out. Maroni [Italian Minister of Labor, Lega Norda] has also marked me as a tarket to take out, naming me by first and last name.

So we see that the two are in agreement. If they want to take me out they know that on the 23rd I will be in Rome with my comrades.

And I will struggle for a strike...of the entire country for a new democracy.

Surely he's not implying that that nice Mr.Berlusconi had something to do with the murder?

I presume nobody bothered getting the Belgian PM's free book then. The strategy the police used in Genoa is explained in it.

“I didn't mind their beating me the first time but the second and third time they tried to kill me." - journalist Marc Covell.

mike65

Sand overeggs the pudding but there is no question that civil violence is most likely to come from the hard left, we even had a taste of it here in Waterford last Friday when Bertie Aherns car was man-handled by the SWP, a protest which was to support the campaign for a radiotherapy unit in the South-East was
meant to be silent and peaceful whch it was until Jimmy Kelly et al decided to grandstand. They'er a bunch of thugs even the SF
cadidate was'nt carrying on like that and instead made the point the protest was meant to be cross-party.

Mike.