sinn fein

IRISHLILY24

yes, I am beginning to see the light

bonkey

Originally posted by Victor
Not sure if I have the right angle on your post, but i will try. SF will be accepted / rewarded in gradual stages by the public and other political parties as their participation and record (and that includes that of their membership) in exclusively democratic means progresses. The problem is SF seem to think that they are entitled to 'everything' at the start of the process.

Agreed.

However - an equal problem is that an awful lot of people seem to think that SF are entitled to nothing, including the start of the process.

Its just like the people complaining that China shouldnt be given as much as the time of day until they clean up their humanitarian/political-freedom act, without realising that it is the inclusions they receive which provides the incentive and momentum to clean up said act.

jc

Sand

Typedef comments....

Fine. So you are saying that because someone is convicted of a crime that is a member of organisation (n) that organisation (n) is guilty by association.

Who previously said

both parties (FF/FG) have run guns to the paramilitaries in the North, so it is a case of the pot and kettle vis-a-vis political parties in the country when decrying 'terrorist'.

So type says its wrong to brand a group due to the conviction of one member. Thats fine. He brands FF/FG as republican gun runners because Charles Haughey was alleged to have run guns and FF fired him as a minister.

So groups cant be branded if a member has been convicted, but they can be branded if a member has had allegations levelled against them? Eh?

I want to do what I can in getting involved in the right politics. I hav'nt made up my mind yet as to where I stand as I need to do much more research and hear more on what the people think.
thanks

As a friendly word of advice dont go anywhere near Sinn Fein. They talk a good speech as you found out yourself talking to McGuinness apparently, but having seen many of their membership called upon by the media during the 90s to comment on terrorist attacks, they make my skin crawl because theyd say stuff like....

the bottom line is that the IRA wouldn't exist or have existed without some sort of reason for it to have existed in the first place now would it? It seems inconsistent to label the IRA as terrorists for what they do and fail to understand the impetus behind it.

or.....

Yes what the IRA did and do is wrong, but in a state where leading members of comunity X are murdered by the ostensibly community Y security forces, what kind of response would you expect.

....rather than come out and condemn the monster who left a bomb in a public bin on a main shopping street to kill whoever happened to be walking along at 12:30pm without qualification.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

gurramok

I have to jump in here also

All the anti-Sinn feiners here forget the north has little affect on voting intentions of people in my constituency(dublin north-west).
To go back to the last council elections, the principal reason why alot of people in my local estate and other estates voted for 2 councillors in particular was because of crime.
ie...drugs/scumbags...and a big factor-> joyriding.
For example one summer, there were 76 cars stolen and burnt out in the suburb where i come from, alot of sleepless nights for myself. The gardai were powerless to stop this crime spree, complaining of lack of resources. FF in previous election promised zero-tolerance (didnt happen) so alot of voters here turned to SF.
No other party acknowledged what had happened was a serious issue especially when confronted and their literature was full of the usual best party crap, only SF were seen as helpful.
As i'm a new SF voter(1st time i voted for them in last council elections), i used to be always a FF voter, they let me down on the crime issue.

Sand

Warrington was the basis for that example, but a similar evil logic guided the planting of bombs along roads, in pubs, or worse yet again the taking of a family hostage to force the father to drive a bomb to an army checkpoint.

p.s. the quote button is just above the text where you type your replies etc, click on that and then copy and paste whatever you want to quote into it - its a bit touchy so you might have to copy and paste parts of the quote into it until you get the full quote you want. Or you can type (QUOTE) text to quote (/QUOTE) ---replace the ()s with []s.

As regards the fact that SF are the party that seem to get things done.... Im not being confrontational here so dont take offence but I rank SF up there with the Nazis and tbh I could care less if the Nazis solved my local problems. I would hate for the south to get to the position that its at in nationalist areas in the north now where SF and their buddies in the IRA act like the dammed mafia or something. Back in the 60s and 70s they came in as defenders of their communities and similar bull**** - look where they are now:|

Johnny_the_fox

I am not a big Sinn Feiner, but I think that they are not as bad as people think they are. They are working for a united Ireland which see that unionst are as equal as everyone else in the country......

They may have terrorist links, but in order for the country to get anywhere the other side will have to forgive...

The Man (cant remmeber his name) that is checking the IRA bunkers was a terrorist once. He is just like some Sinn Fein people, they where once terrorists.

I cant believe the number of people linking the IRA to drugs..... Does the IRA not have a "child group"(couldnt think of the right word there ) called DAAD (Direct Action Against Drugs)?? and these are the people that beat up drug dealers????

Shinji

Heh, Direct Action Against Drugs - a cunning excuse for a group of vigilante thugs if ever there was one.

Astonishingly, I agree with Sand on this one. Albeit in a somewhat less extremist way. His analogy is a good one; in the 1930s people in Germany voted for the Nazi Party on the basis that they seemed like people who could get things done. No doubt their representatives were fantastic on a local level, so they got the votes.

Sometimes, though, you have to consider the wider politics. Sure, your cuddly local candidate is good at getting the roads fixed, and seems keen to deliver on crime; and anyway, he only has a FEW convictions for arms smuggling, and hey, nobody's perfect right?

But this kind of view is really, really narrow. Sinn Fein might have a lick of paint and a quick dash of shoeshine, but they're still the party that backed the IRA. They're still a party whose members believed in violence as a solution to the problems of the north. They're still a party associated with one of the largest organised crime syndicates in existence.

Yeah, they're good on petty crime and certain elements of drugs. So were the mafia. After all, what better way to clear the way for YOUR operation, while winning widespread community support, than to clean up a few of the small-time thugs and dealers?

People in Ireland are disgruntled with the existing political parties, and it's not hard to see why. Reading news on Ireland's politics every day is just depressing... It's monotone, dirty and unpleasant. The parties are a joke, and the system is full of shysters lining their own pockets and doing nothing of value. I can see why people want a change. But when people think the answer to being disgruntled is to vote for change, no matter how many skeletons in the closet of that change, history tells us over and over again that the results are not good. And by god but Sinn Fein have some skeletons in those closets.

Sand

Another thing about SF and the type of politics they like to run. During the time when Ferris was being questioned by the Gardai I think Adams and co were daily calling on the Justice Minister to intervene into the Garda operation. Dont think anyone wants something like that. Not that non SF politicians are perfect. A certain well known politician earned the nick name "Jim'll fixit" amongst Guards for the way hed exert pressure on them to effect the release of some scumbag he knew. Doesnt mean we should lower the acceptable standards though.

bellum

It is all very well to argue the minor details of Sinn Fein and their actions, principles et al.

The bottome line is that Sinn Fein are a party persuing an unrealistic goal in an inconsiderate way. They refuse to halt their unsavoury practices, and any suggestions otherwise are simply naive.

There may well be some who believe Sinn Fein stand for something they don't. It is all very well to want a united Ireland, but there is much more to Sinn Fein than a united Ireland.

Martin Ferris, par exampli, is a thug - there is no better word. I was in discussion with a senior manager of the Kerry Group recently. I was actually surprised by the amount of corruption and immorality that still continues and is part of the party.

Sinn Fein, in some isolated cases, have been making the right moves as has been stated in previous posts. But until they really show that they can act in a more "mature" fashion, they have no place in Irish politics. Gerry Adam's rhetoric remains that of a poor politician incoherently arguing towards an unfeasible goal.

m1ke

some of the comments i made earlier can be backed up in the Sunday Indepedant of March 10th.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by bonkey


I thought a "grade A criminal record" would automatically prevent Mr Keogh, or anyone else for that matter, from being a candidate?

I would also ask about your bomber allegations. I'm not necessarily doubting you but google cant find a single hit for "Nicky Keogh" and "bomber", nor for "Nick Keogh" and "criminal" which I find interesting.

That's because he spells his name Kehoe. Try again.

In the Phoenix last year (June or July some time, didn't write down the exact issue date) they did a profile of Mr Kehoe after his council election victory and described him as 'someone who came from nowhere (well Portlaoise Prison actually)'

Sadly the Phoenix only publishes the first few paragraphs of their articles on the Web so I couldn't access the details.

In the course of digging up some information, though, I've seen some press quotes from Mr. Keogh, and he seems pretty literate to me - as well as being an active anti-drugs campaigner.

Sinn Fein have good spin doctors the same as anybody else. The Times (in their piece about elected Sinn Fein councillors) quoted sources who described Kehoe as very much a single issue candidate. So don't light up a joint if he comes knocking on your door looking for your vote.

Sinn Fein have to remain legal - it is the lesser of two evils. You dont have to vote for them, but thats a seperate issue.

jc

Thank you. I certainly won't. Mind you, I don't expect too many canvassers in my middle-class haven.

Victor

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
In the Phoenix last year (June or July some time, didn't write down the exact issue date) they did a profile of Mr Kehoe after his council election victory and described him as 'someone who came from nowhere (well Portlaoise Prison actually)' Sadly the Phoenix only publishes the first few paragraphs of their articles on the Web so I couldn't access the details.

Give me a date - I should have a hard copy (have most copies going back a few years).

Augmerson

Originally posted by Meh
Well, you can't blame him for trying to give that impression. But Sinn Fein is actually the smallest party in the Irish parliament ("Dáil"), with only one representative. Sinn Fein are also in a minority among nationalists in Northern Ireland -- the main nationalist party there is the SDLP. They just get a disproportionate amount of press because of their links with the terrorists in the IRA.

http://www.sinnfein.ie

---

>
Recent election campaigns produced further gains for the party, with voters electing four MPs, returning the party's Vice President Pat Doherty MP and Ard Chomhairle Michelle Gildernew MP to join party President Gerry Adams MP, Chief Negotiator Martin McGuinness MP, one TD, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, 18 Assembly Members and 108 Councillors in the Six Counties, and 62 Councillors in the 26 Counties

And guess what! Sinn Fein is the largest nationalist party in Northern Ireland too. All throughout this island, their vote has increased. However, Sinn Fein doesnt have a monopoly on Irish Republicanism, but I think their main achievement was to PUT irish Republicanism on the map, make it relevant to people.

To those of you who dont know what Sinn Feins policies are, I urge you to visit sinnfein.ie. It's worth a look folks.

Biffa Bacon

And guess what! Sinn Fein is the largest nationalist party in Northern Ireland too.

Sinn Féin cannot be considered a nationalist party as long as they support an illegal paramilitary organisation that is engaged in subversive activities against the Republic.

Sand

However, Sinn Fein doesnt have a monopoly on Irish Republicanism, but I think their main achievement was to PUT irish Republicanism on the map, make it relevant to people.

Got to say their buddies in "the cause", the IRA, made Irish Republicanism relevant to people. A lot of people can claim to have buried family and friends because of it. SF did little more than run around afterwards smugly talking about "resolving the causes of conflict".

To those of you who dont know what Sinn Feins policies are, I urge you to visit sinnfein.ie. It's worth a look folks.

Ive actually visited the SF website in the past. It doesnt seem to have much on the parties policies regarding kneecappings, punishment beatings etc etc. Id guess they prefer to deal with those issues on a local level.

Victor

Originally posted by Augmerson
And guess what! Sinn Fein is the largest nationalist party in Northern Ireland too.

Based on a single day's voting which had allegations of voting fraud directed at Sinn Fein.

Originally posted by Augmerson
All throughout this island, their vote has increased.

Last time I checked they were getting 1-2% in the Republic.

Bosco

Originally posted by sjones
The mayor of shannon is a member of sein fein and he has pushed the gardai to their limit making sure they do everything in their efforts to get rid of the drugs problem there. He's held meetings with the commission to help come up with ways of solving the problem. He's put up posters on lamp posts around shannon that had a list of all the known drug dealers in shannon, with the heading "KNOW YOUR NEIGHBOURS". Does this sound like sein fein condones selling drugs?

This sounds like Sein Fein is in the business of politics, and in politics it is good to be seen to be working to correct the problems of society. This is true even when efforts undertaken to correct a problem are completely ineffective, or even counter-productive. In politics it is the 'show' that counts, and everything mentioned above is exactly that, a show.

There is absolutely nothing a politician could possibly do to 'push' the Gardai to work any harder than they already do to enforce drugs legislation. The notion that a Limerick politician could succeed in coming up with a solution to the ancient problem of substance abuse in human society with his 'meetings with the commission' is utterly laughable. And am I the only person that sees that the only thing achieved by publicly naming suspected drugs dealers is driving these people and their business furthur underground, making it all the harder to police?

Wake up sjones, and see the reality behind your propaganda, becasue propaganda is exactly what it is.

conZ

bastards :~P

Meh

Originally posted by Augmerson
And guess what! Sinn Fein is the largest nationalist party in Northern Ireland too.

Perhaps a more accurate measure of the relative positions of Sinn Fein and the SDLP is the Northern Ireland Assembly figures. The NI Assembly is elected using a PR STV system, like in the Republic and unlike Westminister elections. This means that its membership figures give a more accurate picture of the voting intentions of the entire population.
From here:

Sinn Fein 18 seats
SDLP 24 seats

SDLP > Sinn Fein.
Also, it's a bit unrealistic of Sinn Fein to expect to be accepted in mainstream politics in the Republic of Ireland when they can't even get its name right -- "26 Counties" my arse. Go read the Constitution.

scojones

Originally posted by Bosco

The notion that a Limerick politician could succeed in coming up with a solution to the ancient problem of substance abuse in human society with his 'meetings with the commission' is utterly laughable.

Ummm, check the map. Shannon is in Clare. Not Limerick.

Originally posted by Bosco
There is absolutely nothing a politician could possibly do to 'push' the Gardai to work any harder than they already do to enforce drugs legislation.
[/B]

That statement is just laughable.