Lads, we can't let this go

EvilGeorge

Lads, we can't let this go. Pass this on to one and all (but make sure they are going to vote no).


Ulster Unionist leader and First Minister of the Northern Ireland Assembley David Trimble's recent comments criticising the Republic of Ireland shouldn't go unnoticed.

He describes the Irish Republic as a "pathetic, sectarian, mono-ethnic and mono-cultural state".

The Belfast Newsletter has a poll asking readers to vote on whether his comments are justified or not. Please take a moment to submit your vote.

Do you think this comment is fully Justified?

www.belfastnewsletter.com

Meh

Who cares what a bunch of sash-wearing, taig-baiting, petrol-bombing bigots think anyway? Trimble's comments have more to say about Northern Ireland (where apparently it's still necessary for politicians to appeal to ancient tribal prejudices to stay in power) than they do about the Republic. I wouldn't lower myself to Trimble's level by voting in that poll and thus dignifying his allegations with a response.

adnans

already been discussed in a more suited forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44129&highlight=trimble

mind you, if the abortion referendum was accepted, those small remarks would have some meaning after all. im glad we proved him wrong.

adnans

Irish_Ranger_IR

There may be Trouble ahead........

bugler

It's currently at 80% saying yes he was justified. Charming. I wonder if you take away the votes of southerners and northern nationalists what the percentage would be like? Mid nineties? wouldn't place too much importance on such a poll, but it may be indicative of why exactly final resolution of N.I's problems are a long way off. Such bitterness.

elexes

ye rember hearing that but all i think is that his opinion dosent matter sh!t to me and for all i can they can fire bomb the entire 6 counties killing all ppl there and seperate it from ireland . drag it across and add it to scotland

Terminator

I'm sure if Ireland.com ran a similar poll the results would look a lot different. Maybe the newspaper/website has an agenda and the votes been rigged.

As for Trimble, he's just trying to get some support from the hardliners. Judging by the poll, its seems like there's still a lot of them out there :mad:

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by EvilGeorge
Lads, we can't let this go. Pass this on to one and all (but make sure they are going to vote no).


Ulster Unionist leader and First Minister of the Northern Ireland Assembley David Trimble's recent comments criticising the Republic of Ireland shouldn't go unnoticed.

He describes the Irish Republic as a "pathetic, sectarian, mono-ethnic and mono-cultural state".

The Belfast Newsletter has a poll asking readers to vote on whether his comments are justified or not. Please take a moment to submit your vote.

Do you think this comment is fully Justified?

www.belfastnewsletter.com

why though does it annoy you?

i wouldnt call ireland pathetic (apart from maybe the telecom infrastructure)
sectarian, well yes it is. not as bad as the north, but from all the celtic supporters id have to agree.
monoethnic, well, again, its true.
mono-cultured. id have to agree again.

so apart from the pathetic bit, i think his commecnts are true. not justified, i dont know why he said them, but it would appear that as an off the cuff remark, like the ones irish people amke about england constantly, are true.....

amp

Yeah. Mono-culture is so boring. Far less riots.

bonkey

Originally posted by EvilGeorge
Lads, we can't let this go. Pass this on to one and all (but make sure they are going to vote no).

Ahh - yes - make sure they vote the way you want them to.

God forbid that a poll actually be used to reflect the general consensus of a target population. No - much better to attempt to ensure it has the result you want.

Tolerance is, after all, highly over-rated. Much better that we get up in arms about every slight. Thats the way forward - thats the way to peace and reconciliation.

Trimble was playing to a crowd. He was being a politician. What did you expect him to do? Tell the massively anti-Irish crowd that we were really a great crew and that they should all cop on and like us?

Even were he not being a politician, where does it say that he must like and respect the Irish nation and its people? He has every right to believe that we are pathetic - after all, pretty much every international news station was hinting (to various degrees of subtelty) at the ridiculous scenario of the Western nation with the most draconian anti-abortion laws having a national referendum to try and make them even more draconian, mostly carried on the back of a somewhat religiously extremist approach.

The willingness to be offended only adds to the problem. The best thing would have been for someone in Irish government to publically say that they would not lower themselves to Trimble's level in order to address the remark, and then allow the whole thing to either disappear, or for Trimble to get up in arms - showing his intolerance, not ours (as is currently the case).

All we have done by making an issue out of this is actually lend strength to the claim Trimble made. It is pathetic to get so riled up about something like this, and the more we get riled up, the more he was justified in calling us pathetic. The rest, as WWM already pointed out, is accurate.

jc

manonthemoon

Would it be possible to do a vote to build a fence around N. Ireland. Or maybe could we sell it?

I recall Russia sold Alaska to the US. Could we do the same.

The Dutch are always giving out about their lack of land. They might buy it

Typedef

I wonder how many of the respondants in the poll have actually spent a period longer than a month in the Republic, but then again when you realise what the Orange Order for example is all about Mr Trimble's comment take on a whole new 'context', the Orange Order is amazingly enough still legal, despite peer organisations of sectarian hatred being banned across Europe. When you realise that such an organisation can exist in the North, David Trimble's jaundiced comments become all the more potent when you 'contextualise' the environment of ignorant sectarianism that exists in Northern Ireland.

Lets be clear, I went to a Church of Ireland school, despite coming from a 'Catholic' background and I can inform you that most (if not all) of my Protestant friends would never dream of describing 'their home' as being the way David Trimble has, it's simply not an issue and religion never was, the same sadly is not true in Northern Ireland and David Trimble's comments show the kind of pig ignorant siege mentality that gladly I have never had the displeasure of experiencing in the Republic, a fact Mr Timble would be aware of if he spent more time experiencing the ordinary people of this country rather than berating it and them.

Typedef

Boston

who cares what people with a warped sense of reality think

kayos

Well compared to yester day the no vote has gotten a hell of a lot more support by about 1000 votes comapred to yesterday when I voted. I wonder were most of these votes from boards??

While some of what was said was true mono-cultured is very true but I would not agree with the other statements made. For David Timble to call Ireland sectrian is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. While Ireland is in some respects bad on this point the north is way off the scale. He was playing to a crowd that is clear but at the same time as the leader of the north he should be more careful in what he says. Can you imagine if Bertie came out and said that England was a dying acient power that has caused more pain and suffering for other country's in the goal of amassing wealth and power. Now this is mostly true but there would be hell to pay if he said it because he is the leader of our country.

I dont know if I got my point across the way I meant to but hopefully this will not anoy to may ppl.

kayos

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Typedef
I wonder how many of the respondants in the poll have actually spent a period longer than a month in the Republic, but then again when you realise what the Orange Order for example is all about Mr Trimble's comment take on a whole new 'context', the Orange Order is amazingly enough still legal, despite peer organisations of sectarian hatred being banned across Europe.

and amazingly enough, sinn fein, those well known bastions of democracy have never been associated with a well known terrorist organisation that apparently fights in my name.


/aside
you know, for every single bad thing you say about the orange order, the protestants and the english, you can say the same about the irish, the ira, sinn fein and catholics.

do you not think its about time you re-evaluted what the problems actually are. because as long as youve got a problem with what one side says, with out taking the other side into account, you immediately become a hypocrite. a lot of people band me in with 'the other side' purely because i give an alternative slant on things. you know the type, he doesnt agree so hes obviously against us. im just making the point that there are no 'innocent sides' in the north when it comes to trouble.
people have realise and admit to themsleves, in the south anyway, that both sides are at fault, and the constant harping at the orange order, can be turned right back around.

and amp, thats not something i would expected from you.
the fact is that ireland has a mono-culture, at least until recently. of course now with lots of refugees, ireland is becoming a mixing pot of races and religion. maybe not to the extent as the rest of europe, but it is still predominantly white catholic people. you cant deny it really.
so your commecnts about riots really arent fair or constructive. youre just being patriotic as usual and tend to thenk that any slight said about ireland whether true or false means the out break of world war three. and that seems to be the most common fault with the irish. is the ability to take critisism.

its fine for an irish person to turn around and say that all cultchies are farmers and scumbags. in fact youd have a good laugh. if an english person said it, well, thered be bloody noses for sure. an attitude of tolerance and acceptance is needed if theres to be any real way forward in the north. and thats not jut on our side. the unionists are going to have to realise this as well.

mi sure i will no doubt be flamed for saying these things however, it will really just prove my point that the irish cant accept any critisisms no matter how productive they are....

FreaK_BrutheR

I often wonder how many people who post remarks like elexes have spent any time at all in the North. I wonder do they realise they are being as close minded as the people they want to "firebomb" (nice!). Grow up.

Biffa Bacon

What I hated about the response to those remarks was how some commentators said "Oh but we're getting better. We're good boys and girls now, look at all the blacks and Chinese we have."
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a mono-ethnic or mono-cultural society.

bonkey

Originally posted by kayos
For David Timble to call Ireland sectrian is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Trimble called us sectarian. We are sectarian. What is the problem? There is none.

When the troubles in the North are reported in the Republic, it is almost always referred to as "sectarian violence" - implying that sectarianism is behind it all. We dont see a ptoblem in saying this, despite us being a sectarian nation ourselves, but when Trimble levels the same accusation back at us, we get all high and mighty about pots, kettles and their colour.

Can you pronounce double-standards?

Look at the aftermath. People in the Republic are unable to let go of this perceived slur, to the extent that they think Bertie should stick it to Trimble in their next meeting.

Bravo. Genius. What a superb idea.

Yes - lets scupper the best chance the peace process has because we get so high and mighty over a stupid comment. I'd hate to see what you lot would be advocating if (say) a Loyalist attack ever occurred in the Republic.

Its funny - the troubles in the North are fine, as long as its the North and the Brits who are targetted for hatred and violence. Put us in the spotlight and all of a sudden theres this huge outcry of "but you cant say that".

What was that word again? Can you still pronounce it?
Go on - try. Say it enough times, and it might actually sink in.

jc

Meh

Just to point out that if Trimble posted those remarks on this board, they'd be deleted for being an obvious troll. I think most of you are being a bit thin-skinned about this...
The Portadown News has a funny take on the matter:

Trimble insult outrage!
by every newspaper columnist in Dublin
"David Trimble will have to learn that the new secular pluralist multicultural Ireland won’t tolerate offensive outbursts from Protestants. It’s true that Ireland may have been rather backward 800 years ago, but that’s hardly the case today. Not only are there Romanian gypsies on every corner, but you can hardly walk down O’Connell Street without seeing a black man.

We’ve even had an Indian family move into our neighbourhood, and they’ve been made very welcome. No doubt they’ll open a nice little restaurant somewhere and…" etc. etc.

kayos

Originally posted by bonkey


Trimble called us sectarian. We are sectarian. What is the problem? There is none.

When the troubles in the North are reported in the Republic, it is almost always referred to as "sectarian violence" - implying that sectarianism is behind it all. We dont see a ptoblem in saying this, despite us being a sectarian nation ourselves, but when Trimble levels the same accusation back at us, we get all high and mighty about pots, kettles and their colour.

Can you pronounce double-standards?

Why yes I can and I can pronounce bigger words as well.

I was not getting all high and mighty and if you could at least try to understand what the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black" means. Yes Ireland is, to a point, sectarian but so is the north that was my point.

There has been attacks in the south before and the world did not end.

Lets recap my post.

I did agree that some of what was said was a the truth and I will stand up and admit that to any one.

My main point was as the leader of the North David Trimble should be careful with what he says. People from outside Ireland/England and the north who read about a comment like that get the wrong idea avbout the whole situ.

If it was as you said a "stupid comment" why did he not retract it???

Bonkey if you are not prepared to read and at least try to understand what was written by another person without accusing them of "double-standerds" can you please keep out of it.

kayos

Boston

Originally posted by bonkey


Trimble called us sectarian. We are sectarian. What is the problem? There is none.

jc

How? this is not a troll, id just like to know exactly how you see us as sectarian by nature or by society.

im not saying your wrong, maybe after you explain your view point in detail ill agree, but I fail to see this sectarianism you speak of.

is it general sectarianism, i.e. Catholics and protestants don't normally mix in the south? I know plenty of examples of were they do, in fact id say you would have allot of trouble telling a catholic Dublin person apart from and a protestant one, unless you were told.

maybe your referring the whole Dublin is Ireland and the rest of the country is full of bogards and sheep farmers attitude. This attitude doesn't hole much water since id say there's a pretty even balance to Dublin native and country people in the city.

maybe its the sectarianism between male and female. you know at the moment there's are far more primary teachers female then male, and secondary schools appear to be going the same way. while there seems(haven't seen the actual figures) to be more males increasing teaching 3rd level. god only knows My point is different strokes for different folks.

maybe its the race issue, which I don't think is an issue as yet but probably will be one.

There will always be a Them and us, its part of Irish social culture, maybe even human. nothing wrong with that once its kept in its right place.

bonkey

Originally posted by kayos
I was not getting all high and mighty and if you could at least try to understand what the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black" means. Yes Ireland is, to a point, sectarian but so is the north that was my point.

But I fail to see the relevance of it. Ireland is sectarian, and Trimble called us sectarian. Whether you personally disagree with this part of his comment or not, the fact is that a large number of people take offence at him having said this.

The fact that Northern Ireland is probably even more sectarian than we are does not mitigate the fact that (in my opinion) Trimble spoke the truth, nor does it somehow remove his right to say it.

My main point was as the leader of the North David Trimble should be careful with what he says.

Of course he should, but the simple fact is that, in my opinion, people are getting far more worked up over this meaningless comment than its worthy.

If you take Trimbles comment, and remove the word "pathetic", I can pretty much guarantee you that none of it would have been reported, and if it was, people would have ignored it as typical pro-unionist speech-making. However, once the word pathetic is in there, everyone gets up in arms, but not about the word pathetic - about all the other bits. I havent heard people complain about why he is wrong about the patheticness of our nation - but I have heard defences against the mono-cultural, sectarian, etc. aspects - all of which are arguably true.

If it was as you said a "stupid comment" why did he not retract it???

For the same reason he made it. He was pandering to a crowd. If he retracts his statement now, you can be sure the crowd in question will go against him more than if he had never said anything.

Basically, Trimble has walked himself into a corner through lack of thought. He can either refuse to aplogise for his statement, or commit political suicide by turning a large fracation of his support against him. In this case, if the official Irish reaction is anywhere near as strong as the reaction here on boards seems to be, he may just have comitted political suicide anyway.

So - given the choice - would I want Trimble out? Can I think of anyone more suited to the task? Not at the moment - no. Which means, that for me, kicking up a fuss about this is making the situation worse - not better.

Bonkey if you are not prepared to read and at least try to understand what was written by another person without accusing them of "double-standerds" can you please keep out of it.

This coming from the man who reads the word "we" and "you lot" as "kayos". Or is it that I must have been talking about you because I chose to use the same euphemism that you did, and you chose to read "you" as a singular rather than a plural.

I wasnt attacking you, I was attacking the common belief that this is a major issue. I was talking in the plural.

Your willingness to read this as a slur on you, and for you to react with strong indignation is not my concern, nor any reason for me to keep out of it.

jc

bonkey

Originally posted by Boston


How? this is not a troll, id just like to know exactly how you see us as sectarian by nature or by society.

The Catholic "brigade" in Ireland has significant sway in this country. You cant have a referendum on any issue with moral reprecussions without a strong showing from the religious platform, which is then reflected in the voting patterns of a large proportion of the country.

Sectarian does not automatically imply that there is opposition, just that there is not unity. We are not all part of the "Catholic brigade", but there is definitely a strong sectarian element right there which has significant political sway in the republic.

For me, this is sectarian Ireland. This was arguably evidenced recently by the occurrence of the abortion referendum - which I see as having been brought about by pressure of what I refer to as the Catholic brigade. The wording of the referendum was not solid enough which caused a split on the issue, but the simple fact is that we were facing legislation designed once again to limit the availability of abortion and information about same.

I'm guessing that Trimbles comment was actually a snide reference to that recent referendum, rather than an all-encompassing slur.

jc

Boston

cause our nation is pathetic, its a tiny speck on the arse of europe. our leader ship is just a joke, full of muppets who pretend they are bigger then they are. bertie saying to bush he would have full irish support, im sure bush slept soundly that night :rolleyes:.
As shown in the other thread me cant get a couple of fish in a tank, a couple of footballers on a field, or a couple of trams on a glorified rail track

See work as hard as any other nation in europe yet seem to get no were for it. the only system in ireland that seems to work is the taxation one.

and of course every once in a while our goverment decided its a good idea to throw billions into the brit economy

all that said would you really rather live somewhere else, i wouldnt.

Boston

Originally posted by bonkey


The Catholic "brigade" in Ireland has significant sway in this country. You cant have a referendum on any issue with moral reprecussions without a strong showing from the religious platform, which is then reflected in the voting patterns of a large proportion of the country.

Sectarian does not automatically imply that there is opposition, just that there is not unity. We are not all part of the "Catholic brigade", but there is definitely a strong sectarian element right there which has significant political sway in the republic.

For me, this is sectarian Ireland. This was arguably evidenced recently by the occurrence of the abortion referendum - which I see as having been brought about by pressure of what I refer to as the Catholic brigade. The wording of the referendum was not solid enough which caused a split on the issue, but the simple fact is that we were facing legislation designed once again to limit the availability of abortion and information about same.
jc

from my point of view religion and church didnt come into it, they were the least thing on my mind. i saw far more out of berti then i did out of the church. though i am aware they made some comments somewhere.

kayos

deleted. Personal attacks are not permitted on this board

And BTW I took your post as a personnal attach as you quoted me and accused me of double standerds even after I admitted that the republic were not as white as white.

Can you pronounce double-standards?

What was that word again? Can you still pronounce it?
Go on - try. Say it enough times, and it might actually sink in.

Both of these comments are singular and personnel.

kayos

Boston

to early in the week to get involved in a flame war.

bonkey

Kayos - I'm PMing you about this - it has no further place on this thread.

jc

kayos

Soory this is my last post on this board cause seemingly I dont have enough knowledge of the English language grammer and have to get lesson.

So fare thee well fair board and may a loftier muse fo thine sweet formation of word keep thine post count up.

kayos

WhiteWashMan

what did you say?
what did you say?
tell me!!!!!

kayos

As far as I remember my comment was

kayos - I modded this out once. Why do I have to do it a second time.

it was sarcasm including smiley how that can be taken as a personnel attack I do not know.