How Mods Should Behave....

DeVore

I'm going to try and do something I never thought I'd have to and never wanted. I'm going to *try* and define how mods should act and behave both as Mods and as posters on Boards.ie

Ok there is no priority to these ideas, this is just the order in which they came out of my head:

Being a mod is not for life, its something we can remove. We have done this before in one case.

You are there to ASSIST your community and perform general housekeeping tasks. You're primary role is to assist the admins to see gross abuses, since boards is too big for us to get around it sufficently. It does NOT confer god-like status on you. People on the board you mod are not your subjects.

If you see a post which is clearly abusive to other users or uncivil, delete it without comment. If the user persists, ban them from your board and report the fact to an admin.

If however, their abuse is aimed at *you* personally, or they are deriding your moderatoship then DO NOT DELETE it, instead report it to me (DeVore). The reason for this is to avoid what has been recently happening where complaints about deletions have also been deleted. I dont like that as it stifles complaint and leaves the mod open to charges of abuse of power.

What about content that is close to the line? Or not deliberately abusive/uncivil but more spammy and crap?
There is a grey area here which you need to be careful of. You need to be relaxed about things and let things slide so that occasionally a topic might wander off topic... or might have funny stuff in it. Thats the nature of discussion.

If you get a poster who is spammy but means well then have a word in private with him/her. Tell them "hey, some people have been complaining about the volume of your posts, can you tone it down a little? thanks!" Warn them again with a threat of being banned and then ban them if they persist.

Theres a disturbing occurance in recent mods to percieve themselves as somehow above the general populace of boards.ie. Let me strip you of any such notions. I respect mods because they are of assistance to us in running Boards.ie, mostly they are people who I trust or who seem to be able to handle the work of looking after a board. However, this does not make you a God or in someway superior to posters on your boards. You work for them in many ways.
People on your board have *every right* to question the way you moderate your board in a civil manner.

Boards is a fun place, a place in the sun for us all to input how it gets run, which is why Admin is open to all... you should consider that this isnt the Irish Times, not everything HAS to be completely on topic and if you are wondering if a post is over the line, then its probably not and you should consider pm-img me or one of the admins and asking their advice...

When posting in other fora, you should observe the rules of that board and also act in a way that promotes the sort of posting we want on Boards.ie

Feel free to input positive suggestions and guidelines for moderators. Rules of thumbs etc.

DeV.

amp

The recent "issues" have not really been about Mods thinking they're superior to non-mods. It's about a large section of mods not liking a smaller section of mods. In a nutshell as it where.

And even then it's generally agreed that all mods are doing a good job on their own boards. It's the 2nd last paragraph of your post that is the real issue imo.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by amp
The recent "issues" have not really been about Mods thinking they're superior to non-mods. It's about a large section of mods not liking a smaller section of mods. In a nutshell as it where.

Well, I reckon it is myself as well. I think Devore is spot on posting this at this time. I'm not referring to my own situation solely, so don't start abusing me, but I just wanna say nice 1 Devore, I'm glad someone noticed!

azezil

Originally posted by DeVore
Feel free to input positive suggestions and guidelines for moderators. Rules of thumbs etc.

Originally posted by amp
The recent "issues" have not really been about Mods thinking they're superior to non-mods. It's about a large section of mods not liking a smaller section of mods. In a nutshell as it where.

And even then it's generally agreed that all mods are doing a good job on their own boards. It's the 2nd last paragraph of your post that is the real issue imo.

While you're right in what you're saying amp, I don't think its really relivant to this topic and is, infact seting a bad example for other board members.

Boston

If however, their abuse is aimed at *you* personally, or they are deriding your moderatoship then DO NOT DELETE it, instead report it to me (DeVore). The reason for this is to avoid what has been recently happening where complaints about deletions have also been deleted. I dont like that as it stifles complaint and leaves the mod open to charges of abuse of power.

can you split that part of the thread off close it and send it to the bin. then contact an admin, the evidence is preserved but no longer a destructive influence on the thread.

what do you do in the case were you moderate somebody for posting spam or generally being a nuisance and then they become abusive, is it acceptable in that case to delete those posts.

if the forum has two moderators, and one moderator is receiving abuse, is it ok for the other mod to delete that abuse since its not directed at him

People on your board have *every right* to question the way you moderate your board in a civil manner.

were is the line drawn, when is something taken a genuine and something taken as just someone banging on about how dare a moderator infringe upon his civil liberties

amp

And...... cue Typedef

Boston

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46035

edit: all sorted now, i recieved a complaint, and all baiting was removed, i dont see why a good topic should be closed.

anyway that raises a question, if the topic starter complains to a moderator about the baiting in a topic, can the moderator then go in a purge the thread

logic1

Originally posted by Boston
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46035

edit: all sorted now, i recieved a complaint, and all baiting was removed, i dont see why a good topic should be closed.

anyway that raises a question, if the topic starter complains to a moderator about the baiting in a topic, can the moderator then go in a purge the thread

Boston there are *NO* hard and fast rules. As Devore has said time and time again use your own judgement as to what should be moderated and what shouldn't. Sometimes it's black and white but most times it's a bit grey.

.logic.

Rev Hellfire

quote : People on the board you mod are not your subjects.

Does this mean I cann't collect taxes any more ?

Hobbes

A man, Cloud told me being a moderator would get all the chicks and let me control peoples lives! I'll feel so used.


I Would tend to not delete the post, but only the contents and put the reason in why the contents are being removed. (see Castor Troy for good examples). That way the context of the thread isn't lost. Take the link Boston supplied, it's all a mess now because a large number of posts where just deleted.

WhiteWashMan

boston. lad. take a chill pill will you.
you dont have to tell the world about every post you delete or edit.
its not a race.
its not a popularity contest.
its not a case of 'i am a moderator now, i must behave like this'

relax, chill, enjoy yourself, and stop taking yourself so seriously, and stop taking posts so seriously. if we all edited posts we thought were of topic in any way, wed havea pretty sterile set of forums where no one would post.
its the mixture of method and madness here that makes it interesting. try to keep it interesting mate, and not amputate everything that seems 'non-sensicale'

and remember, always have a good day.

Boston

ive clearer that thread up pretty well now Hobbes.

WWM i only started to edit posts when it got personnal, and then i had to edit all the replies to that post and then all the replies to the replies about why the post was edited. god these things can mounth up.

im also a tad paranoid as i cant help but feel this thread is a direct result of celts unfounded acusations about me.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Boston
ive clearer that thread up pretty well now Hobbes.

WWM i only started to edit posts when it got personnal, and then i had to edit all the replies to that post and then all the replies to the replies about why the post was edited. god these things can mounth up.

im also a tad paranoid as i cant help but feel this thread is a direct result of celts unfounded acusations about me.

its not about 'that' thread.

just relax. youre a mod, people will take pot shots at you.
so fúcking what?
its a bloody bullitan board. does lose sleep over it...

SheroN

Looking at some of the muppet-like mods on these boards...it disgusts me that i am not a mod.
that is all.

tHE vAGGABOND

yea sher - your a much bigger mupper than some of the muppets who are mods

bonkey

I think a policy of "mod-cycling" mightnt be a bad idea, except for the amount of work which it would involve for our lord and overfiend.

Seriously - every moderated individual protests their innocence, and tells the world how the mods are so sucky at doing their jobs. So maybe we have the wrong mods.

Change mods on each forum every so often - say every three months for the more popular ones (like humanities, after hours, politics, etc) and maybe every 6 months for the less busy ones (science, Food & Drink, etc).

I'm not necessarily talking about elections. I'd suggest letting deVore, or the outgoing mod(s), or someone/someones decide who they think would be suitable successors, who havent been a mod in (say) 1 year.

I think a side benefit would also be that the mods themselves will be less likely to suffer from "moderator fatigue", where either they get so frustrated at what they see as persistant abuse that they become either ultra-strict or ultra-lax.

At the end of the day, I see moderatorship as a thankless job. You cant get it perfectly right no matter what you do, and ultimately this can only lead to a bad thing. Changing mods periodically may give more individuals the insight to realise how thankless and tough the job can be, and also perhaps help stave off the inter-mod and mod-poster bickering which is currently rife.

Just my 2c.

And yes, if anyone wants me to put my money where my mouth is, I'm perfectly willing to offer up my mods position on Politics as a trial run.

jc

gandalf

No Bonkey bold!!!!

I'm trying to expand my powerbase on Boards.ie, Dev promised me the Head of Secret Police job when Ireland is renamed Boards.ie

Seriously bonkey I really think rotating the mods would create a load of unnecessary work for Dev and the other Admins.

Gandalf.

Boston

problem with that bonkey, take me as an emaple, put me on a gaming forum and id be useless.
put typedef on the ms app/ os forum he would be lost
put amp on the political forum and all hell would break loose

we moderate the forums we have the most interest in. generaly ones we can help at.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Boston
problem with that bonkey, take me as an emaple, put me on a gaming forum and id be useless.
put typedef on the ms app/ os forum he would be lost
put amp on the political forum and all hell would break loose

we moderate the forums we have the most interest in. generaly ones we can help at.

i dont agree.
the job of moderator has nothing to do with the subject of the forum. its only about keeping the peace, o whatever you wish to call it.
dont you see that?

anyone can moderate a forum. hell i can moderate the unix forum and i dont know anything about it.
theres a thousand people here knko more about windows than you. will you give up your moderatorship for one of them?
what the bloody hell do i know about work?
its not the forum, its the content......

Boston

you make a fair point, i still people you have to have a fair grounding in the subject.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Boston
you make a fair point, i still people you have to have a fair grounding in the subject.

nice to have if you are going to help people, but still its not nessecary.

azezil

WWMAN what if someone posted something on a forum you were assigned too which was total tripe or designed purely for the purpose of e.g. destroying all data on your computer, but you didn't know it was tripe cause u had no interest in the subject, and as a result alot of people got dodgy advise and possibly loose their life's work on the mating rituals of hamsters!

No a mod needs some knowledge of the subject matter.

Baz_

i like bonkeys idea, and since I dont have a problem with any of the moderators really, why not just keep the moderators and every [insert suitable time period here], you can randomly assign the moderators to one of the boards. Nothing too perfect in terms of randomness, but it might freshen up each moderators view of the other boards, and why certain moderators are a bit more strict than others.

Baz_

Originally posted by azezil
WWMAN what if someone posted something on a forum you were assigned too which was total tripe or designed purely for the purpose of e.g. destroying all data on your computer, but you didn't know it was tripe cause u had no interest in the subject, and as a result alot of people got dodgy advise and possibly loose their life's work on the mating rituals of hamsters!

highly implausible example, but you have the wrong idea of moderation too, its as wwm says. If someone does post tripe or damaging stuff, then they will usually be pulled up on it quicksmart, for examples see the tech boards.

Originally posted by azezil
No a mod needs some knowledge of the subject matter.

IMHO BS

bonkey

Originally posted by Boston
you make a fair point, i still people you have to have a fair grounding in the subject.

I agree that it helps.

While WWM is "puritanically" correct in that moderating has nothing to do with the content, I think a mod is more likely to do a good job if they are also actively interested (and at least partially informed) in whats going on.

This is why I had the idea of mods being involved in appointing their successors. I know I could very quickly draw up a short-list of ppl who are not mods on any forum who I would consider good candidates for the politics forum, and I'm willing to guess you could do the same for yours.

jc

Baz_

well i was not only thinking of fresh moderation but also making it easier for the overlords (not my word, but its being quite a lot) to change mods, and I imagine that it would be a relatively trivial task to write a function that changes the boards moderators moderate.

amp

Imo it makes no odds if the mod is a ninja on the particular board he/she moderates. In fact in some cases it can be better that way.

In Webmaster for example there is often talk of php and java and all sorts of stuff that I have absolutely no idea about. I tend to take my lead from the real experts there. Most of the moderator stuff I do there is move off-topic threads to the appropriate forum and clamp down on flames.

If you are (or think you are) an expert in the boards topic you're a little more likely to be actually involved in a flame ridden thread because you have a particular opinion on the thread.

A flame, off-topic or down right offensive post is the same no matter what board it's on.

Shinji

While WWM is "puritanically" correct in that moderating has nothing to do with the content, I think a mod is more likely to do a good job if they are also actively interested (and at least partially informed) in whats going on.

It's got sod all to do with being informed really, and everything to do with being interested. Being mod on the Games board is a piece of p1ss for me, partially because the posters are, for the vast majority, well behaved, but mostly because I check the forum on a very regular basis and read all the threads there, simply because it's what I'm interested in. I'd have a job moderating the Technology forums, because the case modding threads would either send me to sleep or drive me mad, and I just plain wouldn't read the forum as much.

Moderators need to be interested in the subject at hand. They don't need to be able to answer Mastermind questions about it, they just need to be interested enough to read the board regularly and weed out trouble.

bonkey

Originally posted by Shinji


It's got sod all to do with being informed really, and everything to do with being interested.

<snip>

Moderators need to be interested in the subject at hand. They don't need to be able to answer Mastermind questions about it, they just need to be interested enough to read the board regularly and weed out trouble.

Absolutely. My "partially informed" notion comes from the fact that if you are interested in a subject, and you do read the threads, it is almost impossible to remain ignorant about the subject.

I dont think masterminds are needed. God knows I aint one on political issues

jc

Typedef

Originally posted by amp
And...... cue Typedef

Typedef's tyrinnical network master will have to be finessed if he is to regain WINS proxy rights on his machine.

Looking at some of the muppet-like mods on these boards...it disgusts me that i am not a mod.
that is all.

The muppetting is always greener on the other side.

put typedef on the ms app/ os forum he would be lost

Flames your general direction.... I used to work as a Tech support rep for Gateway computers..... It's not like I'm trying to burst your bubble on this one, but I also have 'joint' admin rights/status for two Windows servers in work. Not to mention the fact that I have setup at least two networks at this stage mostly Linux dhcp servers, but this is only easier 'if less secure and using a propietry less stable os' in windows.
Currently I have six operating systems on my main home box. Linux-Slackware, Debian-Linux, Windows 2000 professional, Gentoo-Linux(entirely compiled from source if you don't mind) FreeBSD 4.4 and OpenBSD 3.0.
Flames aside I think I am more than qualified to mod a windows forum for a couple of months.
I mean I was one of those people who had to sit at the other end of the phone and fix people's windows machines, be the problem hardware or software, ergo before I ever touched a *nix machine I had windows skills and just because I have 'mild' contempt for windows does not mean I'm not capable of say appending a device string to an inf file for example like with the Windows 3rd party OpenGL hardware accel drivers from http://www.voodoofiles.com/3dfxhelp.asp it just means that I have had my fill of windows support and left technical support for that reason.

If you have a 3dfx voodoo 3 3500 w tv out running on windows 2000 fresh install and you want to get OpenGL hadware accel working.
Yes to prove this point go and get the small OpenGL drivers fromt the link above and try to install them. This will error out with a message giving you the device string. Take this device string and insert it below the last entry in the inf file and bingo, you have just installed opengl drivers that will enable you to play quake 3 in windows 2k.

Ok so inf hacks may be a little lame however I remember I got a winmodem working in Linux with a similar technique, it works wonders really in the pertinant instances, point being <Flames your general direction>

This is why I had the idea of mods being involved in appointing their successors.

If it were to happen this would be an acceptable mechanism for me to relinquish my ornimental iron fist on Green Issues, yes I'm open to the idea of 'another environmentalist' modding Green Issues, but I would be have apprehensions about allowing someone who knows nothing, is stupid or has contempt for environmental issues influence the forum whilst also being it's local governance. Yes appoint a sucessor, much like it actually works in real life you know CJ Haughey, Bertie and so on, that would seem logical.

Typedef.

Boston

*repressess sarcasm and digs about gateway tech support*
fair enough, i just got the impression you wouldnt enjoy it that much

Pablo

lets be honest ... who gives a fuçk ?

Typedef

Well said pablo, thanks for the input.

Slydice

Whats the guidelines regarding the Counter Strike forum post permissions DeVore?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

ykt0di9url7bc3

boards has been for quite a while, and forums were drawn up and mods were choosen.....

In all honesty in the terms of keeping a forum abuse free, close to the topic and good place for a disscusion...it can be a bit hard at times (cs muppets, ayatollah's sense of humour..:) )...i thought that mods were choosen for this and choosen for the fact that they can look after it themselves....(i never seen any crap on games, sci fi, politics....except what i post )


mods are still posters
and when mods start squaring up a lot of **** came up

all this should be buried quickly and deleted in case it comes up again, lack of evidence kind of like doesnt help ones argument

astrofool

Too many forums, make one forum for all subjects and put Castor in charge

seriously the tech page now looks like a home for the "i know more than you" moderator, and is plain stupid, maybe get a non-techie to mod the forum (a reader of the forum, but one who won't try to one up another mod)

Gerry

I completely disagree with most of your sentiments astrofool, but if people want a "non-techie" to mod the tech board, fair enough. I've tried to stimulate discussion on the tech board, I thought it was a place for discussing technology, not "my windows is broke" but if people don't want to discuss stuff theres nothing I can do. As for "one up another mod" could you explain yourself a bit more clearly? <edit> actually I'd rather not start another flamewar, pm me with your thoughts. </edit>

astrofool

sorry, by saying tech page it seemed I implied technology board, which is one that has seen little problems, and also fewer posts due to the division of technology into many little slots.

They could really all be broken down as such:

Technology - broad coverage, net/comms, audio/visual, science

PC board - would cover hardware tweaking, ms apps/os

The Web/Networking - would cover nets/comms, webmaster, technology, wireless

Mac

Programming

Unix - as it's not hardware specific, dare to throw linux in there as well ?

thats 12 boards condensed into 6 that would recieve alot more readership, i'm never gonna bother checking all 12, i'd check maybe 2-3, and i read the boards enough to be in the top 50 posters area, people who post less will also read alot less of them.

dahamsta

[Might as well stick me nose in this one too.]

Gotta say, I like it this way meself astro. I flick onto boards, pop into the relevant forums, and bam, I'm away. I don't have to grind though stuff on hardware tweaking, macs or audio/visual, which I'm not in the least bit interested in. When it was all in Technology, it was a pain in the butt to trawl through the stuff I wasn't interested in (because of the morons who use subjects like "it isn't working...", it has to be said).

adam

po0k

I want for to mobble.

Op Flash trial board?

Gerry

Sorry for jumping to conclusions there astrofool. In fact, I would agree that there are too many technology boards, I was against most of the splitting off. The security board gets practically no traffic, perhaps it should be integrated with the nets/comms board? I don't think hardware tweaking should become the pc board. If anything, it should be called the hardware tweaking / electronics board. I think technology should be for discussing past, present and upcoming technology, and any questions/problems which are not covered by the other technology boards. Unfortunately that still leaves its description a bit vague, I'd like to hammer out a charter for the technology board, with everybody thats interested helping out.

Boston

Originally posted by astrofool
They could really all be broken down as such:

Technology - broad coverage, net/comms, audio/visual, science

PC board - would cover hardware tweaking, ms apps/os

The Web/Networking - would cover nets/comms, webmaster, technology, wireless

Mac

Programming

Unix - as it's not hardware specific, dare to throw linux in there as well ?

first as far as i was aware linux topics are posted in the unix forum. since to the best of my knowleadge linux is loosely based araound unix.

second i like the way you group the forums with the most topics and post(there for most demand)together while leaving mac(though a totaly seperate subject) on its own,


i think its pretty well devided and if your going to start joining forums, start from least posts and up.

ButcherOfNog

the fact some of you are getting all worked up about this tells its own story, will yis ever relax

Zero

nerds

Toulouse

Agreed.

dahamsta

In fact, I would agree that there are too many technology boards, I was against most of the splitting off.

Course you were, ya greedy ba5tard. Wanted all the posts for yourself.

The security board gets practically no traffic, perhaps it should be integrated with the nets/comms board?

All security is network-related now, is it? And there was me shoulder-surfing only yesterday. How dated of me.

adam

Gerry

ok, well then maybe network security stuff could be posted on nets/comms, windows security stuff (!!!) could be on msapps or technology... and unix/linux security stuff on the unix board?

Boston

if a board isnt in use then i argee that it shouldnt be there, that cant be said for the vast majority of tech forums here.

though im certain afew forums can and should be joined together, i think it should be left up to the regs of that forum and the moderators to decide

seamus

Might as well throw me nose in here, being a mod an' all......
I agree with dahamasta on the Tech boards. I just pop my nose in and leave. The (specific)tech forum's content has changed dramatically over the last 6 months to more technical questions, so I usually just get a little bit of education and leave. I ignore Webmaster, Audio/Visual and Mac, and Security to some degree, and it suits me fine, being on a tight schedule as I am

As for rotating the mods, I had come up with that idea 2 days ago (freaky ), but certain mods just couldn't be moved because they are too good at their own board. Typedef, Gerry, and Occy are just some. Personally I'd make a hash of modding Humanities or Politics, 'cos I'm not here 12 hours a day , and sometimes I'm too damn lazy to go reading all those articles.

My 2c

Typedef

Well schucks.

Flattery will get you everywhere, I think seamus should annex a portion of Ireland for himself and rule it with benavolent loving iron fistedness.

Yes, this sounds like a really great plan.
I heartly endorse this governmental overthrow or people's power based insurrection.