Next Esat meeting

Dangger

I can confirm IOFFL are meeting with Esat's head of regulatory affairs, David Taylor this Thursday the 11th of April.

Son of Blam

Hey you should ask him if Esat will still be around next March!

"BT Ignite will make no further investment in SME and consumer businesses outside the UK. Such businesses will be closed if not profitable and consolidation opportunities will be sought in the longer term."

"Already BT has given Esat Group until March 2003 to become profitable."

"Given the significant losses racked up by Esat in Ireland, many believe it cannot become EBITDA positive by next March while continuing with its existing range of services."

This all from that article: http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=727954&issue_id=7191 in the Irish Independent which seems to imply that Esat will be gone in March next year.

-Son of Blam

aidan_dunne

I just want to wish the IOFFL crew the best of luck in your meeting with Esat on Thursday. I reckon you'll need it! lol

Tellox

ask them how severe the money losses were when they brought out nolimits

timod

Are Eircom not obliged to provide a flat rate service to Esat if they ask for it? It's just the pricing that's the problem, Eircom wanted £39, and ODTR wanted £13. Right?

Assuming that Eircom are still offerning it at £39, would esat be able to purchase this, and perhaps sell it to us for a little above that? Then when the interconnect rate comes down, after the court case, then we might be down to about €30 a month.

There's probably a lot of people that would be willing to pay about €60 per month for flat rate (not just off peak) until something more reasonable comes along.

(or am I just being silly...)

Tim

Dangger

Are Eircom not obliged to provide a flat rate service to Esat if they ask for it?

"If they ask for it" being the important part of that question.

pete

Originally posted by timod
There's probably a lot of people that would be willing to pay about €60 per month for flat rate (not just off peak) until something more reasonable comes along.

(or am I just being silly...)

Tim

No, you're not.

To paraphrase a wise man - If it costs less than my current Internet phone charges, i'll sign up. Simple as that.

sceptre

Originally posted by Son of Blam

This all from that article: http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=727954&issue_id=7191 in the Irish Independent which seems to imply that Esat will be gone in March next year.
-Son of Blam

... and as you may imagine, Tony O'Reilly has something of a conflict of interest with regard to such an article. In any case, no-one can disagree that he wouldn't potentially profit in a personal way from having people reluctant to sign up to a service that the ever so neutral and impartial Irish Indo has implied might just let them down in the long run.

I'm not anti-Eircom, as people are aware. I just have particular problems with both (1) their effective unchecked monopoly and (2) current pricing structure (see problem (1))

With regard to news though, the Indo can sometimes be as impartial as the Daily Mirror.

timod

Originally posted by Dangger


"If they ask for it" being the important part of that question.

Indeed!

> Please ask Esat to ask Eircom for Flat Rate....

yellum

Originally posted by timod



> Please ask Esat to ask Eircom for Flat Rate....

Add the word AGAIN to that.

phoenix2181

Build it, & they will sign up as wiseman once said;)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by timod
Assuming that Eircom are still offerning it at £39, would esat be able to purchase this, and perhaps sell it to us for a little above that? Then when the interconnect rate comes down, after the court case, then we might be down to about €30 a month.

I think these are the LLU prices you are thinking of here. This has nothing to do with flat-rate dialup access.

Tellox

Build it, & they will sign up as wiseman once said

Build it, and they will come


so, tommorows the meeting, best of luck to ye

pete

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I think these are the LLU prices you are thinking of here. This has nothing to do with flat-rate dialup access.

Uh oh. Boy do i feel stupeh.

I had thought that once LLU was in full effect, and A.N. Other telecoms operator had access to the last mile, then they'd be free to charge whatever they wanted (not being dependent on buying time from eircom) for their service - eg a flat rate net access service for a reasonable sum....

Dang.

Why are we after LLU, then?

timod

Originally posted by pete


Why are we after LLU, then?

I know that the £39 is LLU pricing...

What I meant was...

If the £39 is on the table, as bad as it is, why don't esat go for that until the courts make it better. With that then, esat could offer us flat rate at £(39+esat's fee). which would still be a hell of a lot cheaper than current phone prices.



Tim

stormkeeper

The £39 is on the table. (as bad as it is) Why don't esat go for that until the courts make it better. With that then, esat could offer us flat rate at £(39+esat's fee). which would still be a hell of a lot cheaper than current phone prices.

I agree with this... Heck, I'd be nuts enough to pay €100/month for Flat-Rate, as it's still cheaper than my last 2 phone bills.

By the way, good luck in the meeting

dahamsta

Hey pete,

I had thought that once LLU was in full effect, and A.N. Other telecoms operator had access to the last mile, then they'd be free to charge whatever they wanted (not being dependent on buying time from eircom) for their service - eg a flat rate net access service for a reasonable sum....

Well... you were wrong.

Why are we after LLU, then?

Because it's cool. Very cool. In the long term...

No disrespect pete, cos I know you read my posts, but... read my posts...

adam

pete

i misunderstanded

dang

it's been some long day(s)

edit: in my defence, this is what my misunderstandingness is based on:

"LLU"

---

Currently Eircom is the owner and controller of the local loop in Ireland. They alone have access to what is known as the “last mile” which links each of their customers from their homes to their local exchange. Lines from homes and businesses terminate at a local exchange and local exchanges connect to other local exchanges enabling telephone calls to be routed to their destination.

The “last mile” is so called as it refers to the last mile(s) of copper cable connecting a telephone to the telephone exchange. It is access to this “last mile “ which is necessary for competing Telecom operators to offer services to the public. The unbundling of the local loop (“last mile”) will permit other Telecom operators to offer competition and diversity in the communications services available to homes and businesses today. Competitors of Eircom will be able to install their own equipment in the telephone exchanges to manage the data and traffic from their customers, instead of having to piggy back on Eircom’s equipment and service. Not only will this see reduction in call charges as true telecom competition emerges, but it will make possible the roll out of new communication services to the customer.

With LLU alternative telcos can buy just the parts of the incumbent network that they need. This would allow them to unbundle single telephone lines from the Eircom’s exchange and enable them to connect them into their own networks. The competing telco would then just pay a rental fee to Eircom who would cede control of those lines. This would give the competing telecom companies full access to the local loop.

Local loop unbundling has only really advanced where strong regulators have endorsed the concept and recognize that unbundling encourages full-scale competition--even in the local market--quickly and smoothly. It enables established alternative carriers be able to compete on equal terms with the dominant operator, but also new types of operators, specializing in certain segments of the value chain, will be able to enter the market.

mdf

Esat and any other operator can use the €13.53 price for LLU line rental to provide whatever services they like down the copper line- voice or DSL.

However in practice LLU tends to be used for broadband rather than narrowband technologies and Esat are (as was posted elsewhere on the forum) advanced in their LLU plans and programme.

Maybe a question to ask Esat today is where they will be rolling out DSL

sceptre

LLU (or availability of LLU) will be a fantastic step forward.

It's seen as a lame duck to an extent (particularly by Esat at times) as they're conscious of how few lines have been unbundled in the UK (when they're owned by BT it's something to be expected) - that's 142 lines at last count. As time goes on though, even the telcos will have to see the possibilities.

dahamsta

It's over 200 in the UK now sceptre, or at least it was the last time I looked. Ireland is actually a step up on them though, in that there are now two companies involved in unbundling in Ireland - the UK is still stuck on one (Bulldog).

Pete, as mdf pointed out, you're right in theory but wrong in practise. I should have made that clear last night. Also, my comment about reading my posts was in reference to LLU, not a bitchy comment about your being wrong. I was locked, what can you do?

adam

pete

Originally posted by dahamsta
Pete, as mdf pointed out, you're right in theory but wrong in practise. I should have made that clear last night. Also, my comment about reading my posts was in reference to LLU, not a bitchy comment about your being wrong. I was locked, what can you do?

adam

Ha you're just lucky i didn't report you to a moderator arf arf arf

Dustaz

OOoooooh, that troublemaker dahamsta...one day...one day

Please correct the following statement , just for my own personal information then (and probably a lot of other people).

In Ireland, LLU is available. Eircom have set a price for unbundling any loop that an OLO wants access to. The problem is that Eircoms price is too high which puts of companies from actually asking for it. As a result there are currently only 2 local loops unbundled (Limerick?).

Is that right?

mdf

No, the price set is the ODTR price of April 2001. There are a number of exchanges unbundled nationwide.

dahamsta

My honourable friend mdf is of course correct[1], but a bit sparing with the information. The current price for unbundling is indeed the price set by the ODTR, however Eircom are challenging this in the courts. This creates a fear factor, because if Eircom win the case[1], Eircom's pricing will be applied retroactively (or so I have been led to believe). This could add up to an enormous lump sum, /on top of/ Eircom's, frankly greedy, pricing.

Again though, the LLU process in Ireland is progressing admirably in Ireland. If there is one thing I will commend them on, it is Unbundling. The ODTR is as much as done on Regulation and contracts, it's up to the OLO's now. Esat are ploughing ahead, and another OLO is involved now. The problem with LLU remains that it is unlikely it will be directed towards consumers and SME's in the short to medium term. Who are the only people I really care about. Enterprise can stand on their own rather large feet.

adam

[1] I was watching Prime Minister's Questions, ok?
[2] Admittedly unlikely, as it is unlikely that the actual case will ever go before a judge.