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    #32
    longword
    Closed Accounts Posts: 741 ✭✭✭longword


    If you're using /bin/ping (or PING.EXE for that matter) to compare ISDN to ADSL, you might like to try with realistic packet sizes (say -s 500), or a variety of them, rather than the default minimum size packet.

    The ping times displayed in games can be more useful but they also depend on more than just network performance and will vary from game to game.


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    #33
    Paddy20
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Paddy20


    Delphi91,

    I am with you, and if Eircom would only use their savvy even the office cat would be able too tell them that the average Joe Soap/Voter wants "Flat-Rate" FIRST??...

    Eicom only have too throw a few switchs and hey presto - flat rate at a fair price for all, with the rest following along quickly. It is only logical.

    Where is the Political will!. Has Europe really got too sue to get the Irish people what they are entitled too right NOW!.

    Paddy20,;)


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    #34
    BKtje
    Registered Users Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Longword im really just trying to see if DSL would be worth getting for me over DSL (apart from price etc). Seeing as all i really do online is play games, the ping would have a large effect on me.

    I dont see what raising the packet size would do except show that dsl would have less lag? Feel free to correct me as im probably spouting ****e :)


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    #35
    Dustaz
    Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz


    ISDN gives you better ping to games full stop. Eircom chose to have a wider coverage area as opposed to a faster ping in thier dsl implementation.
    Having said that i agree with longword when he says that its better to compare pings in game than just a dos ping. Praetorians figures are wrong. In cs i get about a 60 ping with a tweaked config, altho other games get a higher ping.

    If your only ever going to play online games and the cost of staying online to play them doesnt worry you too much, stick with ISDN for the moment.


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    #36
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Pinging 199.103.180.10 with 500 bytes of data:

    Reply from 199.103.180.10: bytes=500 time=160ms TTL=116
    Reply from 199.103.180.10: bytes=500 time=160ms TTL=116
    Reply from 199.103.180.10: bytes=500 time=160ms TTL=116
    Reply from 199.103.180.10: bytes=500 time=160ms TTL=116

    To keep Longword and B-K=DzR both happy.. ;)

    Ping statistics for 199.103.180.10:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 160ms, Maximum = 160ms, Average = 160ms

    Pinging games2.iol.ie [193.120.201.112] with 500 bytes of data:

    Reply from 193.120.201.112: bytes=500 time=81ms TTL=244
    Reply from 193.120.201.112: bytes=500 time=70ms TTL=244
    Reply from 193.120.201.112: bytes=500 time=80ms TTL=244
    Reply from 193.120.201.112: bytes=500 time=70ms TTL=244

    Ping statistics for 193.120.201.112:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 70ms, Maximum = 81ms, Average = 75ms


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    #37
    KdjaCL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,346 ✭✭✭✭KdjaCL


    proablay a stupid question but ,
    isnt the Line rental for your normal phone included in the €89xVAT
    price?
    i was assuming it was .
    kdja


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    #38
    m1ke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭m1ke


    yes until eircom decide to make their dsl product ping low

    stick with isdn if you want lower pinging games


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    #39
    Dustaz
    Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz


    Originally posted by kdja
    proablay a stupid question but ,
    isnt the Line rental for your normal phone included in the €89xVAT
    price?
    i was assuming it was .
    kdja

    No its not


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    #40
    longword
    Closed Accounts Posts: 741 ✭✭✭longword


    Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
    To keep Longword and B-K=DzR both happy.. ;)
    To keep me happy you'd have to state the service and conditions used for each.

    I'm a fussy bastard at the best of times ;-)


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    #41
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    No its not

    Well, it's not included in the €89, but it is included in your normal phone bill. You won't pay an additional line rental unless you get an additional line. Which you shouldn't need, since voice services work as normal.

    adam


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    #42
    Mick-X-Listener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭Mick-X-Listener


    What exactly does this mean? can I upload as much as I want but I will be limited to 3 gigs download and charged per mb after that? I want to upload files so I should be ok?


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    #43
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    According to the info on the website, it's a download cap. So, yes, you should be able to upload ad infinitum.


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    #44
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    What exactly does this mean? can I upload as much as I want but I will be limited to 3 gigs download and charged per mb after that? I want to upload files so I should be ok?

    Ostensibly yes, but the actual T&C's may be more restrictive -- for example, they may cover uploads in the full T&C's. Whether you'll actually be charged or not also remains to be seen. Although monitoring shouldn't be all that difficult, in reality a lot of ISP's/OLO's don't bother, or don't bother collecting. And they play the numbers game too, they look at statistics to see how usage will work out on average, and round the number accordingly, so some users may end up subsidising the hogs. (There was an excellent thread about this on Slashdot recently, which you'll find by searching this board for Slashdot.) It might not be worth the risk going totally ape if they don't though, you could find yourself presented with a hefty invoice, and Eircom would be legally entitled to collect on it.

    adam


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    #45
    madden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭madden


    Ping statistics for 193.120.201.112:games2.iol.ie
    Packets: Sent = 155, Received = 153, Lost = 2 (1% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 130ms, Maximum = 1402ms, Average = 209ms
    that's my ping and i have a modem :( hopefully i will get a 1mb downstream soon tho ( uncapped ) w00t


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    #46
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Odd - I just checked out http:www.adsl.ie again a few minutes ago.

    It's also dated today.

    The business pricing seems to have changed again:

    The product has both a USB port or ethernet option.
    Speeds are up to 512kbps downstream/128kbps upstream.
    Connection fee is 125 excl. VAT - Monthly fee is 110 excl. VAT.
    Additional equipment required: ADSL USB modem 145 excl. VAT or
    ADSL Ethernet modem 200 excl. VAT.
    For eircom i-stream solo the monthly allowance is 3GB.**


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    #47
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Guys, where's this E89 coming from?

    I've just checked the website(dated today)nd its quoting the solo package at E110 ex/vat

    SO it works out as follows:

    Connection Fee: E125 x/vat -> E151.87 inc/vat
    Monthly Rental: E110 x/vat -> E 133.65 inc/vat
    ADSL Modem (Ethernet): E200 x/vat -> E243.00 inc/vat

    Total for first month: E528.52 inc/vat

    And

    per additional 1024mb (1gb) over the 3gb cap: E30.72 x/vat -> E37.32 inc/vat


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    #48
    Coyote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭Coyote


    they just put up the price gits
    it was 169 now it's 228 + VAT

    eircom i-stream enhanced
    For a multi user, multi PC networked environment

    Speeds are up to 1Mbps downstream/256kbps upstream.
    Connection fee is 125 excl. VAT - Monthly fee is 228 excl. VAT.
    Additional equipment costs will vary with customer requirements.
    For eircom i-stream enhanced there is unlimited monthly download allowance.**


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    #49
    Hankster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Hankster


    Got this from http://www.eircom.ie/cgi-bin/bvsm/bveircom/bladerunner/showContentDropDown.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0068046720.1018871383@@@@&BV_EngineID=fadcdkkgkeeibedcfjgchgcghk.0&cid=TheResAdsl&fromChannel=At+Home&selectedChannel=Products+and+services

    For a single user, on a single computer

    The product has both a USB port or ethernet option
    Speeds are up to 512kbps downstream/128kbps upstream
    Connection fee is 151.25 inc. VAT
    Monthly fee is 133.10 inc. VAT
    Additional equipment required: ADSL USB modem 175.45 inc. VAT or
    ADSL Ethernet modem 242
    For eircom i-stream the monthly download allowance is 3 GB.**

    **There is an additional charge of 3.6c incl VAT per MB for material downloaded over and above the stated monthly download allowance.

    I know this page is dated 1st March 2002 and the other (www.adsl.ie) today, but isn't it a little odd that within little over a month, for prices on the same product to have jumped by quite a considerable margin?

    Robbing bástards!


    Never mind just re-did my maths and the prices are the same. My bad. Sorry. :(


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    #50
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    I've got a feeling they're just mucking around with the site. You'll notice on the res page they still have it dated March 1st, and the price is exactly as it was (for i-stream Solo), less the VAT that is on the business product.

    They also refer on both pages to the ongoing dispute with the ODTR. Give it a day or two, methinks.


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    #51
    longword
    Closed Accounts Posts: 741 ✭✭✭longword


    Originally posted by Coyote
    they just put up the price gits
    it was 169 now it's 228 + VAT
    They're winding us up.

    That must be it.

    There's some sick twisted bastard in Eircom that knows we're watching the page on an hourly basis, and changing it in just the right way to cause the most outrage.

    165 euro for the privilige of a 6GB cap? WTF are these people smoking?


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    #52
    Arboration
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Arboration


    Starts banging his head upon a table.


    BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS BASTARDS     - Outburst.


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    #53
    ando
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭ando


    why am I not surprised? I knew that €169 was to good


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    #54
    Balfa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭Balfa


    It could of course be that they put the lower price on the site and watched this board to see the general reaction. maybe enough people said they'd take it at that price anyway and so they're seeing how high they can drag the price up on us. But that's just paranoia speaking :) And if that WAS how they conducted their marketing, they deserve even worse than i've been plotting :]


    It irritates me that their spokesman has been using the fact that they invested billions in implementing this technology as an excuse for their exhorbitant prices. However the reason they blew so much on it is because they were experimenting with offering ADSL with streaming video to rival NTL's cable tv, and then they gave up on that. They shouldn't sort that out by upping the price of the ADSL product. They should fire their thick managers instead.


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    #55
    kamobe
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭kamobe


    lol

    That's actually pretty funny if they're winding us up :D


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    #56
    keithwhir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭keithwhir


    hoo well at least they got a sence of humer :p


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    #57
    segadreamcast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭segadreamcast


    I thought i-steam was funny...

    I think this is just sick and frankly it disgusts me. About a third of us will probably sign up for adsl from the off, and for keeping tabs on it this is what we get...I'm gonna ring em now. Yeah.


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    #58
    Tellox
    Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Tellox


    Edited due to lack of coherent content.


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    #59
    Arboration
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Arboration


    Me.

    Seriously......






    .......... Ring me:
    0404 40947
    .. No, do it.. I mean it.


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    #60
    stormkeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,633 ✭✭✭stormkeeper


    Edited due to lack of coherent content.


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    #61
    timod
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭timod


    Hate tobe a party pooper, but that kind of talk is not going to help us. Burning down Eircom offices certainly won't :)

    Eircom do this because they can. If I owned Eircom, I probably would do it too. They are a business, and must make as much money as possible as required by their investors.

    It is obvious to me that the only way to get Eircom to do anything that benefits our cause is by campaiging against bodies *other* than Eircom. - Namely, the government to introduce suffecient Legislation, the ODTR to implement it, and the OLO's to take advantage of it.

    The report from the ODTR meeting proves this. More loops would be unbundled if OLO's requested, FRIACO would probably exist if OLO's wanted it. IMHO :).

    Tim


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