Monopoly to be re-instated???

Delphi91

Further to the comments on the board this past week about ESAT, here's the text of an article in todays Irish Independent:


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BT pullout to open door for Eircom

EIRCOM could return to a near monopoly position in the residential telecoms market with 98pc of customers if British Telecom fails to sell its loss-making home phone division in Ireland.

The UK company is to review its Esat operations and has appointed Bill Murphy as acting chief executive to decide on the future of the residential business.

Industry sources yesterday said it would be very difficult to sell the loss-making division in Ireland, and it would be more likely that the operation would be shut. Earlier this week, British Telecom said it would close its consumer businesses if they were not profitable.

The closure of the Irish division, called Esat Fusion, would be a serious blow for the telecoms regulator, Etain Doyle, whose job it is to stimulate competition.

At present, Esat Fusion is the second biggest player in the Irish market with 150,000 subscribers, or 15pc of the market.

Most of its customers would be forced to rejoin Eircom if the UK operator was unable to sell the operation.

A number of other new entrants to the residential market have a 2pc share, while Eircom has 83pc. Eircom increased its share of the market by 3pc during 2001 at the expense of the new entrants.

Last month, the telecoms regulator said in a report there had been a decline in numbers of people using new entrant companies for home phone services. This survey was disputed by Esat group, which has claimed its share of the Irish market has remained stable.

The research by the telecoms regulator, which does not directly relate to market share figures, found 8pc of adults used a supplier other than Eircom a drop of 6pc since the last survey in 2001.

The decline in those using a supplier other than Eircom may be indicative of decreased activity in the residential sector in the past twelve months, the report said.

The consumer survey also said that 13pc of those currently using Eircom had switched back from another supplier.

The main reason given for switching back to Eircom was "cheaper calls overall."

On Monday it emerged that British Telecom may pull out of the residential business sector in Ireland.

BT Ignite is the pan-European subsidiary that owns Esat Group, employing 1,300 staff here.


David Murphy Deputy Business Editor

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Article to be found here

Arboration

I can see Eircom's prices raising again..

Tellox

goddamnit

Jpaulik

Thats just mental. Denis O'Brien where are you now ? Actually, why doesn't IrelandOffline contact the guy and see if he'll give you a hand ? Surely counting all that cash has ceased to be fun now.

Dangger

Aren't there unanswered questions around O'Brien that might make him think twice about getting involved in telecoms here again too quickly? I'm thinking Lowry and liciences here? Can anyone throw some light on it?

fi

Isnt this just typical, it is us "the little people" who suffer time and time again.

i am single and the esat nolimits saved my life, i am not in a situation to go out and socilise all the time so i spend quite a bit of time online.

if esat go and i am forced to go to eircom i know for a fact i will not be able to afford the online charges, it makes me so mad and the likes of the people in tallagh can relax in the luxery of 24/7 flat rate, it is most unjust and why cant someoen form the IOFFL become someone in government who can and dwill do something?

there must be something, thye ahve to listen to the people.

i know there are many many people like me and worse off but this just takes the biscuite.

dahamsta

Aren't there unanswered questions around O'Brien that might make him think twice about getting involved in telecoms here again too quickly? I'm thinking Lowry and liciences here? Can anyone throw some light on it?

What'a unanswered Dave? O'Brien did what he had to do at the time to get an Irish telecommunications licence. If you didn't do what O'Brien did back then, you didn't get a licence, period. It's the national equivalent of the planning application "process". It may have been immoral and unethical, but it was mandatory.

Doesn't everyone know that Ireland ranks below Chile in the World Corruption Index?

adam

Coyote

It’s not quite the same, what he did is not illegal but it’s not the way we as a country should want phone licenses worth over 100 million been given out.
Where planning application are the same for everyone who apples.

Coyote

Richard Barry

Originally posted by dahamsta
Aren't there unanswered questions around O'Brien that might make him think twice about getting involved in telecoms here again too quickly? I'm thinking Lowry and liciences here? Can anyone throw some light on it?

What'a unanswered Dave? O'Brien did what he had to do at the time to get an Irish telecommunications licence. If you didn't do what O'Brien did back then, you didn't get a licence, period. It's the national equivalent of the planning application "process". It may have been immoral and unethical, but it was mandatory.

Doesn't everyone know that Ireland ranks below Chile in the World Corruption Index?

adam

While Ireland is far from the whiter than white zone this list is crap in my view. Switzerland is by far the most democratic country in the world with its referendum system. The only improvement they could make is to have a website to enable the electorate to vote on each law being enacted.

While I have nothing against the US, statistically there is far more corruption there given its population size than most of the other countries on the list.

"UK" # 10 - the home of the old boys network... No constitution. Rigged "first past the post" electroal system.

Anyway why pick on Chile as the baseline? For one they produce far better wine than any country ranked above them on this list.

R.

dahamsta

While Ireland is far from the whiter than white zone this list is crap in my view.

Oh, well, it must be wrong so.

While I have nothing against the US, statistically there is far more corruption there given its population size than most of the other countries on the list.

Relativity

Anyway why pick on Chile as the baseline? For one they produce far better wine than any country ranked above them on this list.

Indeed, wine production has always been one of the major factors affecting corruption levels. Sure doesn't that fella Brando drink it in the Godfather movies!

adam

Dustaz

Just to drag everything back on topic, The subject of the original topic is pretty depressing.

Are esat the only real competition to Eircom? Is there any other OLO that could feasibly jump into the gap?

dahamsta

Are esat the only real competition to Eircom? Is there any other OLO that could feasibly jump into the gap?

Well, it all comes down to investment, doesn't it? Investors won't touch comms right now, which is fine from a global viewpoint, but (in my opinion) shouldn't necessarily apply to Ireland. I think the problem is that investors are relying too heavily on global opinion, and they're looking on Ireland as too small to generate a short-term/windfall return on investment. It's very much like the main argument against rolling out flat-rate services over here -- there isn't much money in it.

So investors aren't interested, which is both greedy (because there /is/ money in it, the UK has proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt) and silly (because /any/ profit in the current economic situation should be appreciated). Investors have been living in a fool's paradise for the past few years, and it still doesn't seem to have hit home that the landscape has changed. It's not like a broken fruit machine anymore, you have to think more carefully about what you're doing now, and you have to invest long-term. The days of paper napkin business plans are over. Thank the gods.

Of course I'm hardly a comms expert or an economist, but plain old common sense is screaming at me that now is actually a pretty good time to invest in comms in Ireland. Although the Government has made a right hash of paving the way for comms and technology, they can't afford to ignore it anymore, simply because: a) we're losing money hand over fist, and we stand to lose a lot, lot more; and b) we've become an international laughing stock. Whether they like it or not, they're going to have to invest hundreds of millions of pounds in communications in the next few years. That's Free Money[TM] for OLO's.

Me, I'd like to see Mom and Pop's encouraged and supported in Ireland, not just in the comms business, but in all fields. We can't afford to rely on the multi- and meta-nationals any more, they've served us well but now they're just sucking the marrow from our bones. We have to invest in Ireland, not people like George Soros. He can manage quite well enough on his own, thank you.

“Show me the money.”

adam

Richard Barry

Indeed, wine production has always been one of the major factors affecting corruption levels. Sure doesn't that fella Brando drink it in the Godfather movies!

adam [/B][/QUOTE]

Quite. Just like the guys who did this http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=732088&issue_id=7230 - they were obviously tanked up with a bottle of Chateau Mouton Rotschild 1er cru classé 73!

R.

Richard Barry

Me, I'd like to see Mom and Pop's encouraged and supported in Ireland, not just in the comms business, but in all fields. We can't afford to rely on the multi- and meta-nationals any more, they've served us well but now they're just sucking the marrow from our bones. We have to invest in Ireland, not people like George Soros. He can manage quite well enough on his own, thank you.

Wouldn't we all. Unfortunately enterprise in Ireland is mainly dominated by multi-nationals or the local build and sell out quick merchants, usually with a good few shovels of the corruption one has been speaking about. It would be nice to have an Irish Berkshire Hathaway http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ with an Irish Warren Buffett to enable the Denis O'Briens of the world to release cash from their operation through a 50% (or whatever partial) sale and keep the show on the road under the same control and management.

R.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Don't shoot me down for this....

The government plans to connect every household in the country with a 5mbit line, would it not be handy for them just to buy Esats network if/when Esat shut up shop? Could it speed up the process and put pressure on Eircon? It could be done, so whats stopping them? I know that a state company wouldn't be in it to make a huge profit if any but to supply services? Or is it a totally off the wall idea? A turnaround to privatisation?

ambrose

dahamsta

The government plans to connect every household in the country with a 5mbit line

The Government may very well /say/ that they want to connect every household in the state, but their plans in that regard fall at the first hurdle, because the fibre rings project has no measures for last mile connectivity to SME's or consumers. It'll end up in the hands of Enterprise, or never lit up, just like all their other projects.

adam

Son of Blam

Originally posted by dahamsta

Of course I'm hardly a comms expert or an economist, but plain old common sense is screaming at me that now is actually a pretty good time to invest in comms in Ireland.

So how come the residential section of Esat isn't making money? In fact, in any section of Esat making money?

"Already BT has given Esat Group until March 2003 to become profitable." (from Independent http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=727954&issue_id=7191)

And also, how come NTL are losing money? (The search bit of the Irish Times is broken right now, I wanted to link to the story about NTL being whatever billion in debt, it's been posted a few times here already)

I'm not sure what common sense you're working on here, but if Ireland's largest "non Eircom" telcom can't survive despite being owned by the UK's biggest telcom, how do you propose a new one starts up and does better in the current climate?

(random current climate link: "Funding for IT firms down 54pc" in today's Irish Independent http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=732261&issue_id=7231)

dahamsta

Not to put too fine a point on it, Son of Blam, because they're morons.

adam

BKtje

i was under the impression that NTL was losing its money elsewhere outside europe and that its irish based company was doing okish. Thought i read that somewhere but im sire someone will correct me

Felix Randel

NTL are making money in Ireland.

Esat is run and staffed by complete morons

chernobyl

What have Esat done lately that would suggest they are going to make a difference to home phone and internet users?

Esat are going backwards and maybe BT could turn Esat's demise to an advantage but not to ours.

Do €ircom make it impossible for competition to exist or is Esat just that poorly managed?

Coyote

yes they are poorly managed, but Eircom are not helping anyone.

longword

Originally posted by Son of Blam

And also, how come NTL are losing money? http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=732261&issue_id=7231)

The NTL group are losing money hand over fist primarily because they went billions into debt (bigger than Ireland's national debt) with borrowings used to buy telecoms companies like Cablelink at top dollar prices before the telecoms crash. Now they're struggling to make the payments on that debt and the assets they bought are worth a small fraction of what they paid for them so it's difficult for them to even sell their way out of the problem. Whilst some of their operations like NTL Ireland are making a modest profit it's not nearly enough to cover it. Within a month or two they may well be declared insolvent. Looks remarkably similar to what happened Excite@home.