Communications Bill - Ends on Thursday...

timod

According to

http://www.gov.ie/oireachtas/sch-week.htm

All Stages of the communications bill are to conclude at 6.15 pm on Thursday if not previously concluded.

Based on the Forfas report, the Bill requires to be amended to give the regulator powers to impose a flat rate interconnection product on Eircom.

Does the lobbying working group, or the committee have an active policy on this? We basically have 1 day (tommorrow) to highlight this oversight to our TD's.

I know it's been said before that sending random mail to your TD's is probably not ideal, but I would urge people to get in touch with their TD's ASAP to get this amendment to the Bill.

Thanks,

Tim

vinnyfitz

You are quite right Timod.
This is the point to push with TDs now.
The recent announcements by BT make the case all the stronger.
The Dail will take all stages of the Bill on Thursday so amendments can be put in and passed during the day.
Has the committee met Forfas yet? Did they get the impression Forfas expected the Bill would be amended by the Government?

Dangger

Cutting it close I know, but we meet Forfas on Thursday morning. We have had a lot of contact with various TD's in relation to this though.

Felix Randel

Based on the Forfas report, the Bill requires to be amended to give the regulator powers to impose a flat rate interconnection product on Eircom.

What do you mean by this? Do you mean that this will enable the odtr to force eircom without the use of loopholes to introduce friaco, and that this will be in the bill

dahamsta

I think Tim's answers would be:

Do you mean that this will enable the odtr to force eircom without the use of loopholes to introduce friaco

Yes.

and that this will be in the bill

No.

I think Tim is suggesting that this provision should be added to the Bill. I agree with him. But I can't see it happening.

adam

timod

Originally posted by dahamsta
I think Tim's answers would be:

Do you mean that this will enable the odtr to force eircom without the use of loopholes to introduce friaco

Yes.

and that this will be in the bill

No.

I think Tim is suggesting that this provision should be added to the Bill. I agree with him. But I can't see it happening.

adam

Bingo....

I'm still holding out hope that we can get the TD's to ammend the bill however.

Xian

The question remains how seven eu countries have successfully introduced FRIACO without it appearing in national legislation. Most notably, the Italian regulator found its powers sufficient to mandate its introduction based on an eu directive. Something must have been lost in the translation (maybe "market greed" as a mistranslation of "market need").

timod

FWIW, here's what I sent to a load of TD's and ministers....

Dear Minister/Deputy etc....,

As you may be aware, the Communications Bill is due for discussion
in the Dáil on this coming Thursday. I would be obliged if you could
consider the following points when the Bill is being discussed.

The communications bill is a very welcome development, and should do much to
further improve the communications situation in Ireland.

However, there are a number of oversights:

My most pressing concern is that of Flat rate internet access. In simple
English, this would mean allowing other operators and service providers to
offer always-on access to the Internet to customers who are paying a flat
fee for the service, a flat rate interconnection product for narrowband
access should be introduced as quickly as possible. Such interconnection
should be available for basic telephony and ISDN services.

To give a relevant example, (as used by Forfas, see below), a user in the
UK, can stay on the internet 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for £15stg
(~Eur25). For an equivalent user in Ireland, such a service costs in excess
of Eur700. This has obvious impacts for both businesses and consumers.

I would consider it an extreme priority to give the ODTR (or the new
commission as mentioned in the Bill), the power to mandate such a service
from Eircom. Ireland is starting to trail badly in all aspects of consumer
internet connectivity, and I would consider this as a major step forward.

Such a step in the UK recently has been responsible for a huge uptake in
broadband connections there. The UK was consistently one of the worst in
Europe for Broadband access (although considerably ahead of Ireland) Oftel,
the British regulator, had the power to force BT to give flat rate access,
and this has had the effect of making Britain one the fastest growing
broadband markets in the world.

Pretty much all of what I have to say has been researched and confirmed in a
recent Forfas commissioned report, available from
http://www.forfas.ie/publications/bband02/Broadband02.pdf

I would encourage you to read this report, and to press the government to
implement it's recomendations as a priority. Particularly in terms of Flat
rate, and DSL pricing.

There is a brief summary at:
http://www.forfas.ie/newsasp/show.asp?page_id=239
which mentions:

"The Bill requires to be amended to give the regulator
powers to impose a flat rate interconnection product on Eircom,
to ensure that the regulator has sufficient powers to levy
meaningful fines for non-compliance and to provide for
an efficient appeals mechanism to decisions of the regulator. "

I do hope that the concerns of Forfás will not be ignored, and that this
issue will be highlighed during the debate on Thursday,

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you are seeking clarification on any
of the items I have mentioned above.

Best regards,

etc...
(I have IOFFL mentioned in my default sig.)

I'm pretty sure some of my facts are not entirely accurate, and I know I could have mentioned a lot more, but for now, I just wanted to focus attention on the debate on Thursday.

Feel free to copy the letter....

Tim

SkepticOne

Thanks Tim. Although an amendment would have had to have been worded some time ago, it is possible that something is already in the pipeline. IrelandOffline have been in touch with many TDs. In addition, some of the OLOs may have been lobbying for this type of ammendment (though not specifically related to flat-rate). The letter above would serve to reinforce any such ammendment and help it through. We hope to get in touch with TD's in the morning.

vinnyfitz

Have to (half) disagree with you here SkepticOne.
If we got the right amendment (maybe already drafted by Forfas), there is no reason why we could not press it with Government or opposition tomorrow or Thursday.

Don't hold your breath waiting for any OLO amendment to resolve our concerns.

If the wording of our amendment does not make legal sense whose problem is that? - the Government's who is trying to guillotine debate on this Bill despite the fact that, initially, they wanted to introduce it 12 or more months ago. Then they hung around till the last minute. Let their legal experts sort it out and make a good amendment out of the views of the majority.

Anyway trying and not winning is still a success 'cos it forces Government to react on the record in the Dail with arguments which if they are nonsense we can still demolish later - in the next battle in the war - lets flush them out.

I look forward to the battle over the next couple of days. I, for one, will be happy to push the line with TDs if I get the lead from the Committee or Lobby Working Group. The recent BT ESAT announcement allows IOFFL to jump in with fresh vigorous arguments that TDs will bite on.

We can make a difference.

dahamsta

You're not suggesting we try to put one over on Eircom and the Government vinnyfitz, are you? That would be awful!

EDIT: I have an email addressed to all my TD's ready and waiting...

adam

SkepticOne

Please go ahead with this.

Ask for an amendment to the Communications (Regulation) Bill which gives the Regulator (or Commission) power to proactively mandate a wholesale product on an operator with significant market power, for example Eircom. This is necessary to attract competitors into the market in general and enable flat-rate Internet access in particular. Mention that the existing legislation is ambiguous on this issue.

Go on to say that flat-rate Internet access is necessary for the development of Ireland as a technological nation and has been recommended in many Government advisory reports including the latest from Forfas: "Investment in Ireland. Review of Progress and Key Policy Requirements" which says "The Bill requires to be amended to give the regulator powers to impose a flat rate interconnection product on Eircom".

---

Follow timod's wording if you wish.

In order to get there, an email should be sent to the TD's Dail address.

Get the name of your TDs (alphabetically) here:
http://www.irlgov.ie/oireachtas/a-misc/alpha.html

or by consituency here:
http://www.irlgov.ie/debates-97/26jun97/constit.html

The email address is not stated on that page but is normally in the form: firstname.lastname@oireachtas.irlgov.ie. Note that this does not apply to ministers. For that, consult the appropriate department website. These are listed here:

http://www.irlgov.ie/departments/default.asp

For email addresses, please also try:
http://www.rte.ie/news/dailguide/

This page also gives FAX numbers if you are having trouble with e-mail. This might also be more effective.

Now go ahead and do it!

dahamsta

From: adam <xx@x.xxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: 17 April 2002 12:46
To: <simon.coveney@oireachtas.irlgov.ie>
Cc: <minister@doh.irlgov.ie>; <deirdre_clune@oireachtas.irlgov.ie>;
<batt.okeeffe@oireachtas.irlgov.ie>; <johndennehytd@eircom.net>
Subject: URGENT: Communications (Regulation) Bill, 2002

A Chara,

The Communications (Regulation) Bill, 2002 is due to be debated tomorrow,
Thursday, in the Dáil. Obviously, it will need to be finalised and approved
by end of business Thursday, or it will be binned; and it will be another
six months, or a year, or five years before competition in the Internet
marketplace is addressed in Ireland. Somewhat conveniently, the ODTR and
Eircom will do timed press releases today noting the resolution of it's
bitstream and Local Loop Unbundling disputes. This is to be applauded, but
it should not be taken as the unqualified answer to our problems. The
current Bill is flawed, and Eircom, Vodafone and IBEC, among others, are
attempting to break it beyond repair.

I am sending you this email to ask you, as my democratically elected
representative, to fight against this. IBEC, Vodafone and Eircom must /not/
be allowed introduce an amendment that will remove percentage-of-revenue
fines for what, critically, will be court-proved offences in contravention
of the law. This is the only tangible clause left in the Bill that will
address the anti-competitive mindset in the marketplace. In addition, an
amendment addressing mandates /must/ be introduced to the Dáil. The new
Commission has to be in a position to proactively address competition in the
marketplace, and mandate essential products like unmetered Internet access.

Let me make this quite clear: My vote in the upcoming General Election
relies on this and this alone. I will be watching you tomorrow, and if I do
not see a member of your party stand up and tackle these issues hard, you
will not appear on my ballot card. No vote, no preferences, nothing. Not
only that, I will hit the streets immediately afterwards, and I will start
canvassing /against/ your re-election; and I will be able to rally a lot of
support to help me. Your seat in the Dáil has not been used to address the
issues that concern me, I can tolerate this no longer. If you don't use your
seat tomorrow, I will happily help put someone else there who will.

Best Regards,
Adam Beecher

Micky Martin's email address just bounced, so he obviously doesn't embrace technology and communications. That's him off my ballot card. Well done Micky.

adam

pete

try minister@doh.ie ? or minister@health.gov.ie


those irlgov addresses can be flaky - i think they're being replaced by gov.ie

i think.

dahamsta

Nope, both of them bounce too. Cork South Central, Micky Martin is out, ok?

The People's Republic must rebel!

adam

pete

That's pretty sloppy alright.

Is that the officially sanctioned Ireland OFFline form letter?

If so, can I just remind people that details of TD's by constituency are available at http://www.rte.ie/news/dailguide/ . There should be full contact details there for all your representatives, including email addresses which may be more up to date than the 'official' oirachteas ones - and if you're too young to vote, remind them that your parents aren't!

edit: i just realised that liam lawlor is one of my TD's..... jesus. I'm putting my faith in Joe Higgins.

dahamsta

That's pretty sloppy alright.

Sloppy, but hardly unexpected. I wrote to Simon Coveney last week about the Government's new "plan", and that went ignored. I hate having to pull strings to get people to reply. But so be it. If they want to do it the hard way, who am I to stop them?

Is that the officially sanctioned Ireland OFFline form letter?

Gods, no. Write your own, I spent hours creating that.

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pete
try minister@doh.ie ? or minister@health.gov.ie


those irlgov addresses can be flaky - i think they're being replaced by gov.ie

i think.

Talk about e-government Can someone confirm the correct format for the address?

sceptre

As someone who has two opportunities to vote, sent something close to Adam's mail to my local Limerick East and Cork East TDs (thanks Adam, hope you believe that plagarism isn't always wrong)

Willie O'Dea's mail bounced from all possible addresses btw.

Folks, do what SkepticOne said and contact your TDs now. Mine will be getting phone calls later.

dahamsta

From: adam <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xx>
Sent: 17 April 2002 14:15
To: CLUG; Enterprise Ireland eBusiness Discussion; IIU; IE Forum;
CorkWAN; LKOTD; WEBDEV
Subject: OT: URGENT: Communications (Regulation) Bill, 2002

The Communications (Regulation) Bill, 2002 goes before the Dáil tomorrow. It has to be passed by 6.15pm or it will be binned. As we speak, IBEC, Eircom and Vodafone are lobbying to get percentage-of-revenue fines - the only item of substance remaining - removed from the Bill. At the same time, IrelandOffline is lobbying to have an amendment allowing for mandated services introduced; and against the other amendment.

If you believe that telecommunications operators should be fined amounts that are directly related to their earnings if they break the law, and/or you believe that a flat-rate product is essential to the progression of Ireland as a connected state, you should write to your local representatives and tell them this. But there isn't much time to do so. You need to do it now. Right now.

The email I wrote to my TD's in Cork South Central is on the Boards.ie thread below, about a dozen posts down (dahamsta): you can use it if you wish; amend it if you believe it too harsh; or better, write your own. Instructions on how to find your TD's email address are in the post above mine (by SkepticOne):

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=432242

Some of the email addresses won't work, which is a perfect example of the level of understanding and caring the people you put into power have for comms, net and tech issues. Unless something is done, this will not change. They won't do it on their own, they need a push. We have to be the ones to do that.

Thank you for your time.

Best Regards,
Adam Beecher

m1ke

ok i fired that email off to

Bertie Ahern
Tony Gregory
Marian McGennis
Jim Mitchell

they didn't bounce, (yet)

Kix

I've sent it off to Michael Dee.

the_corpo

i sent it to all the dun laoghaire td's 8)

vinnyfitz

For some reason they don't use their Dail addresses so take this advice clipped from the Oireachtas website (they must get asked this quite a lot)

"E-mail addresses of Members are usually of the form: firstname.surname@oireachtas.ie
N.B. this does not usually include Ministers or Ministers of State.
To contact Members of the Government (Ministers) or Ministers of State
The Department of the Taoiseach website http://www.gov.ie/taoiseach/government/default.htm has a page about The Government including e-mail addresses of Ministers and Minsiters of State
or contact the appropriate Government Department or office"

Yoda

Sent versions of Timod's letter to Ruairí Quinn (Labour), Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael), and John Gormley (Green). Sent a version of Dahamsta's letter to Eoin Ryan (Fianna Fáil).

dahamsta

Why the split Yoda? Don't you like FF?

adam

Xian

One last clause to put in for those who haven't sent it yet (based on the Forfas document):

The provisions relating to the establishment of an Appeals Panel to decisions of the Regulator that were in the original draft of the Bill should be re-inserted. This would prevent non-compliance by a company through protracted court hearings as was the case in the course of unbundling the Local Loop.

Validity check, anyone?

sceptre

Got a reply from Mick Noonan.

Apparently Jim Higgins (FG spokesperson on Public Enterprise & Tourism) will be leading the FG response on the Bill.

Anyone here from Mayo (or better still Ballyhaunis) and has Jim as their local TD?

timod

ok, sent it to all 166 TD's. Got about 25 bounces. (and, no, I don't regard it as spam )

SkepticOne

Thanks for your support with this. If anyone wants to continue with this, they should ask their TD to also oppose any amendment seeking to limit the fines the ODTR can oppose, both summary fines and fines upon indictment. People should also consider faxing their TD.

Details of the fax numbers can be found on the RTE website: http://www.rte.ie/news/dailguide/

Dangger

For the record, we have had contact with Jim Higgins in relation to his stance on this today. He received further information in relation to this yesterday from the lobby group. I'll also be sitting in the public gallery from about 3:10 today.