Should provisional drivers be under stricter rules??

seamus

Stems from the AK phoneshow last nite. Plus I'll be here for a while and fancy a debate (no trolling). It's a simple question. Should drivers on a first provisional be forced to drive with someone beside them? And operate say a 3 strikes system where the licence is revoked for 6 months/1 year if they are caught 3 times (or variations on that theme)?
Should they also be forced to do a simple compentency test, ie starting, stopping, reversing, parking before they can get their second provisional?

Before I got my licence I would have said no. But now I'd say yes. It all depends on your perspective. For example, a girl on the radio declared last night that she's a better driver than this other guy on the show. The Stats:
The guy has a class D licence. He specifically went out of his way to learn how to drive anything, before becoming a taxi driver. The fact that he is a taxi driver puts him on the roads at last 30 hours/week
The girl has a second provisional. She has been driving for 6 weeks having only taken it up again, 1 year after her original lessons.

I laughed when she said it, but back when I had only been driving for 6 weeks, I would have been the exact same, ie cocky and dangerous.

And so I put it to you again. Let the debate commence!

Mayshine

I've got strong feelings about this too.

First think I would do is rename the provisional licence to a learner licence, no need to give it a name its not. To get this licence a drive must have at least 10+ lesson from an authorised learning school.

Provisional drivers should never be allowed drive unacomanied - never fullstop. A licence should be a certificate of competency. The situation whereby you are legal not allowed drive on your own on you first prov and 3rd prov, but are on you 2nd is absurd.

An the police must do more to crack down on provisionals driving unacompanied, €100 spot fines should do it

goose

the law on this should definately be changed. this should go in conjunction with other driving laws that are needed.

I think that provisional drivers should be forced to drive accompanied. and that provisional licenses should only last 1 year and cost about E75 to replace.

Its rediculous that considering the test isnt that difficult to pass, that people arnt getting "trained" properly in driving.

BeatTun

i think there should indeed be a learners licence, and that it should be a hell of a lot more restrictive than a provisional is now.

i think new drivers should be given a temporary licence, maybe for 12 weeksin which they are given time to prepare, practise and study for their driving test (which ideally in my plan WOULD be after 12 weeks) if you pass, you are now a QUALIFIED driver and insurance companies should treat you as such, despite your age, if you fail then your off the road until you apply for another learners licence???

Our man in Havana

They need to introduce the american system here.
Harder Theory test, us test needs 40 out of 50

Learner licence for 6 months only. No driving at night or alone. and no driving on mootorways!

seamus

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
They need to introduce the american system here.
Harder Theory test, us test needs 40 out of 50

Are you crazy?! The American system is crap. The competency test is conducted in a yard, driving around cones and such - like you see in the simpsons.

BTW:
40 out of 50 = 80%
35 out of 40 = 87.5%

I think our way is better.

I'm not sure about having a max time on being a prov driver...well not a small max. IMO, drivers should be provisional for at least a year. Then they can get a licence which allows them drive on the Motorway between 8pm and 7am *supervised*. Only after getting this licence and holding it for 3 months, can they take their test.

Just IMO.

Bard

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond

Learner licence for 6 months only. No driving at night or alone. and no driving on mootorways!

It IS currently illegal for a driver on a provisional license to drive without a fully licensed driver in the car, so that covers the "alone" bit. It's also illegal already for them to drive on the motorway.


[ EDIT: Changed "on the car" to "in the car" above ... d'oh ]

gurramok

Originally posted by Bard
It IS currently illegal for a driver on a provisional license to drive without a fully licensed driver in the car, so that covers the "alone" bit. It's also illegal already for them to drive on the motorway.

One question, where would all the accompanied fully licensed driver's come from to accompany the existing provisional licence holders who drive unaccompanied on the roads(we know that alot of L drivers drive alone)?
Most of those people with L plates drive to and fro work, not all will find people to accompany them day and night ? !

What i think should be done, system should be modelled like what they have in Holland. No Provisional licences exist over there. You have to get a full licence before you are even allowed onto the road.
To get a full licence, you need to do driving school course and pass the driving test for a full licence.

Mayshine

One question, where would all the accompanied fully licensed driver's come from

Thats not really anyones problem but the provisional driver. If they go and flout the law by driving unsupervised then they should live with the consequences. It certainly ain't my problem and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Take the train, bus, walk, cycle, find a lift and go apply for a f***ing driving test

Borzoi

There seems to be a lot of confusion about when a prov driver is allowed drive alone, this always suprises me as the rules are very clear:
On a 1st provisional you must be accompanied
On a 2nd porv, while you are waiting for your test, you may drive unaccompanied, should you fail that test you are back to being chaperoned.
On a 3rd and subsequent you must be accompained.

Yes, the only relaxation of the rules is on the 2nd and it was only introduced because of the long delays getting a test.

The problem, as usual, is not the laws, but the enforcement of them. Ditto for learners on motorways.

And having gone through the system I's bent most of those rules.

Rabies

I agree with tighter restrictions on provisonal drivers. any one can get the provisonal licence at 17 and start driving on the road (as long as they can afford insurance).

when i started driving first about 3yrs ago. i was only "on the road" for about 3-4 weeks before i went to dublin from tipperary... i shouldnt have driven on the motorway, looking back at it now i know i definitly wasnt experienced enough. I did my driving test just after xmas last and FAILED it. even after two years driving i failed. but i sat my test again a couple of weeks ago and PASSED ....

my point is, i know (we all know) what it feels like to be restricted when driving. but the rules are there for your safety and other road users safety. we might think that we can drive an F1 car but really if you are only for a few months or a year you really have very little road experience.....

seamus

Originally posted by gurramok
What i think should be done, system should be modelled like what they have in Holland. No Provisional licences exist over there. You have to get a full licence before you are even allowed onto the road.
To get a full licence, you need to do driving school course and pass the driving test for a full licence.

I disagree. Anyone with a full licence knows - every road in Ireland is different. The only way to know how to drive on them is to get out and do it. IMHO, any number of driving lessons, 35 or 40 will never prepare someone for driving on the roads. Every situation is different, and no-one has experienced everything possible. I'd be more afraid of a driver who'd never driven on our roads before than a provisional driver.

One question, where would all the accompanied fully licensed driver's come from

As Mayshine said, that's not our problem. If you choose to learn to drive, you also choose to have to put up with some minor irritations. What if there's no licensed driver beside you? Do what you did before you started driving and cycle or bus it.

On a 2nd porv, while you are waiting for your test, you may drive unaccompanied, should you fail that test you are back to being chaperoned.

That's another problem with the system. I got my test after 11 months, still on my first provisional. Also if you fail the test, there is no owness on you to drive accompanied again. The law permits you to drive unaccompanied for the duration of your 2nd provisional (2 years), regardless of crashing, failing your test, or whatever.

(Of course seamus is preaching do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do. He drove unaccompanied for at least 35 miles every day, had 500 miles motorway experience before his test, and the only time he put his L-plates up was 15 mins before the test)

As I said, it's all a matter of perspective. Things that were a good idea (ie driving across the country after 3 weeks) look like suicide in retrospect.

mayhem#

Originally posted by seamus


I disagree. Anyone with a full licence knows - every road in Ireland is different. The only way to know how to drive on them is to get out and do it. IMHO, any number of driving lessons, 35 or 40 will never prepare someone for driving on the roads. Every situation is different, and no-one has experienced everything possible. I'd be more afraid of a driver who'd never driven on our roads before than a provisional driver.

HELLO?!?
Where do you think those lessons would take place?

mayhem#

They should get rid of the provisional licences idea all together.
It is absolutely lunacy to let someone get behind the wheel of a car without proper instruction and passing a test first!
You only have to look at the standards of driving in this country and you will see what I mean...

JabbaTheHut

Mayhem is right.Provisional licences should be done away with.I see people learning to drive,not rules-of-the-road type learning,but learning as in figuring out what those 3 pedals are for,and what's that stick in the middle of the floor doing there.That's madness.These people should be thought the bacics on a closed curcuit like Mondello,or some place similar.

Holding a provisional licence shouldn't give someone the right to lash straight out on the roads of the country.Part of learning to drive is anticipation,stopping distance,appropiate speed and a hell of a lot more besides.Just because you pass a theory test doesn't automatically mean your fit to drive on a public road.I know you have to start somewhere,but the main road should not be that place.

The whole system should be overhauled.The provisional licence should not exist.Lessons should be carried out in a specifically constructed curcuit.From there to the road,under supervision,where a new format test has to be passed.Only problem is the cost.Insurance prices are prohibitive enough without having to incur this cost as well.

Having said that,I know plenty of people who passed a driving test,has cheap insurance,and any provisional driver could drive better

Xterminator

Originally posted by JabbaTheHut
Having said that,I know plenty of people who passed a driving test,has cheap insurance,and any provisional driver could drive better

Hey, an honest comment amoug the the self smug comments.

Guess what, you all had to learn to drive.

This shyte about beginners on the motorway! Its easier to drive on a motorway than a narrow winding back road!

And there are drivers out there who never took a test, who have a license. There are 1000's of drivers out there with convictions for drink driving/running lights/speeding etc.

these people can drive where they like, and are usually habitual offenders. But hey lets screw the learners! Where do the learners pick up all the bad habits? Its not like they invented bad driving. They are learning by example!

There needs to be an overhaul of many things in the irish motor industry, and as part of this the provisional system could be looked at and improved.

Sure it takes forever to get your test. there should not be a wait of more than 1 month!
The penalty point license system needs to be introduced, then enforced.
Ther attitude of drivers needs to be revisited.
Roads need greater maintanence.
We need a 'traffic police' who are dedicated to just traffic control.

This attitude of 'I was speeding on a safe stretch of road, and was caught by camera' and then they think they have done nothing wrong!
Speeding is wrong. end of story.
Orange lights dont mean speed up, you'll squeeze through.
You dont drive up the outside lane, then try to edge in at the top of the q, to turn!

Blaming everything on learners is just a cop out. After all they will watch you.
What do you teach the learner driver?

X

JabbaTheHut

No one is balming EVERYTHING on the learner driver.Yeah,sure,everyone had to start somewhere,but why start on the main road?

I'm just saying that the system needs overhauling.

You don't have to be a full licence driver or smug to see what crazy things goes on,on the roads.Accepting that learner drivers learn their habbits from evreyone else is just a cop out.

Do like you say,bring in penalty points,and enforce the law properly,and everyone will benifit.

Mayshine

I don't really agree with you xterminator

But if I take your point that learer drivers learn from the example of other road users, surely then they shouldn't be allowed on the road on their own if all they will do is pick up the bad habit of all the other bad drivers out there.

A set of properly instructed lessons will surely instil a better sence of road manners and driving habits. Just because there are plenty of poor drivers out there shouldn't be an excuse to allow learner drivers to pick up these habits