IMPORTANT: Flat-rate ammendment to Bill

dahamsta

Thanks Tim.

adam

Xian

Timod,

therefore, by your reasoning, I was justified in castigating Mildred Fox, an independent, and all other TDs I e-mailed, apart from Liz McManus (Lab) (who notified me that she had forwarded my concerns to the party representative who was to speak at the debate on the Bill), who did not respond?

Where is 80project when you need him?

timod

Perhaps. unless you want to take the view that Mildred Fox is atually under the influence of Seamus Brennan (Govt Chief Whip), and thus, she would have passed comment to the Minister of Public Enterprise.

After all, Mildred Fox is one of the independents that the government have used to keep their overall majority. So, in a bill such as this, she might be regarded as a government TD.

Tim

(who's really talking through his arse, and trying really hard to justify the bad actions of people. Give 'em the benefit of the doubt I say.)

Xian

quote "I will be voting for this Bill at 6.15 p.m. today", unquote.

pete

With all due respect to Ms. Fox, I doubt if she concerns herself with matters that happen beyond the boundaries of her own constituency very much.

She was probably unaware of the fact that an 'arrangement' had been arrived at.

Xian

Originally posted by pete
With all due respect to Ms. Fox, I doubt if she concerns herself with matters that happen beyond the boundaries of her own constituency very much.

Unlike Liz McManus, Labour TD in the same constituency

McManus urges re-think on Broadband for Bray and North Wicklow
“I am very concerned at the neglect of Bray, Greystones and North Wicklow that is evident in the Government’s recent initiative�, said Deputy Liz McManus. “It is clear that yet again this Government is neglecting Bray and the surrounding areas when it comes to infrastructural investment."

She did reply, saying she would pass on my concerns to the party spokesperson. I'll have to disillusion her, as Councillor on Wicklow County Council and Councillor on Bray Urban District Council, of the notion that it was a Government decision to exclude Bray, Greystones and North Wicklow from the first round of development. Nevertheless, the effort was made.

<edit>
As a footnote, and for the record</edit>

I don't think it's worth reviving the thread over. If someoine else does, feel free:
Reply today from Ms. Fox:

You are of course free to vote for whoever you choose, however,
I would like to point out that I was in fact present in Leinster House
to vote on this issue and on the Amendment you were concerned
about. However, when the person proposing the Amendment
doesn't push the Amendment to a vote, there is absolutely nothing
that I can do about that.

As it happens there was no vote on any of the Amendments or
on even the Bill itself, so no Wicklow T.D. got to vote on the issue.

My reply:

I feel I owe you an apology for the abrupt nature of my last e-mail, the product largely of a lack of understanding of processes in the Dail and frustration at seeing yet another opportunity for the introduction of flat-rate internet access in Ireland dismissed. I trust you will accept it as such.

Altomaximus

Originally posted by Xian

Unlike Liz McManus, Labour TD in the same constituency

She did reply, saying she would pass on my concerns to the party spokesperson. I'll have to disillusion her, as Councillor on Wicklow County Council and Councillor on Bray Urban District Council, of the notion that it was a Government decision to exclude Bray, Greystones and North Wicklow from the first round of development. Nevertheless, the effort was made.

Unforutunately the majority of Irish politicians haven't a clue about broadband or it's impact or about the benefits of public transport or motorways or clean water or the need for free flowing airports and a national airline system which integrates into everything else - ie get off the train get on the plane integration. Look at the several mile long queues of cars on the M50 every day to pay a toll on an urban ring road! No other country on the planet has tolls on urban ringroads which are designed to take traffic away from city roads on to the ring by making things faster and free. Even in France where most autoroutes are tolled, they are always free around cities.

If you get a transponder in any European country with toll motorways you can usually drive through the dedicated tollgate for transponder users at 80 kph + In Dublin if you have a transponder you have to stop and queue with everybody else.

Ireland = sick mismanaged country - get out before the meltdown!

Altomax

timod

19 April, 2002

Dear Tim,


I refer again to your e-mail concerning the Communications Regulation Bill.

I too share your concerns in relation to the cost of internet access. Low cost, high speed internet access is a key element of my Department’s communications policy.

You will be pleased to learn that yesterday, in response to both the concerns interested parties brought to my attention and the debate in Dail Eireann, I tabled a Report Stage Amendment, which inserts a new subsection into the Bill at Section 12(2)(c)(v). The new sub-section provides:-

(2) In relation to the objectives referred to in subsection (1)(a), the Commission shall take all reasonable measures which are aimed at achieving those objectives, including
– (c) in so far as promotion of the interests of users within the Community is concerned –
(v) encouraging access to the internet at reasonable cost to users

This amendment now stands as part of the Bill.

I have no doubt that this amendment, together with the enhanced enforcement measures provided for in the Bill represent a significant improvement in the current position. The Bill having being passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas is due to be signed into Law within the next week or so.

With best wishes,

Yours sincerely


Mary O’Rourke T.D.
Minister for Public Enterprise

so maybe this piece can be used to force flat rate?

Dustaz

wow thanks mary.

sceptre

Dustaz needs a sarcasm device methinks.

aidan_dunne

I hate all that governmental jargon. Just can't get me head around it, I guess.

Why can't someone just write a law or Bill simply saying, "Eircom, you must unbundle the loops completely, provide FRIACO, bitstream access and DSL at a reasonable cost and you must do it NOW, full stop, or we'll shut you down. Thank you," and then enforce it.

I know if I was in government that's the kind of thing I would come up with. Simple, clear, to the point, in language everybody can understand.

Hmmm, maybe I should run in the election. Who'd vote for me? lol!

ando

(2) In relation to the objectives referred to in subsection (1)(a), the Commission shall take all reasonable measures which are aimed at achieving those objectives, including
– (c) in so far as promotion of the interests of users within the Community is concerned –
(v) encouraging access to the internet at reasonable cost to users

This amendment now stands as part of the Bill.

excuse my lack of indept knowledge of the bill, but what does this exactly mean?

ressem

This sounds like another set of civil servant aims, with little action required.
I think that I would start by removing all subsections that read like "in so far as ", "encouraging", "at reasonable cost". It's utterly subjective and commits the commission to nothing. I don't understand why politicians still believe that this whitewashing benifits them.

Ok, story as I hear it is that the government, presuming they stay in, is going to offer high levels of grant aid (circa 80%) to organisations that can provide local loop type access. I simplify of course but you get the drift.

This would be to find a use for the cross country fibre that they announced a month or so back, without commiting the government to putting in and maintaining the local loop themselves.

Sounds like potentially good news for the wifi 802.11x crowd. I don't think that this will have the cable companies redoubling their efforts to dig up the roads though. If the SME's that don't need guaranteed service start dropping their leased lines to Dublin, perhaps Eircom will respond.
More likely it is a recipe for more haphazard messing with ambitious small orgs trying to make a name for themselves, regardless of expertise.

OT Question 1: Anyone built an Eliza type parser to trim political bills down to concrete essentials?

OT Question 2: To boil the blood. Anyone else see the piece in www.totaltele.com, telecom company in Tokyo to provide residential 100Mbit internet for YEN5800 on a trial basis. True or not, I don't know. Any of the Boyz in green feel like unrolling a line of fibre behind them?

OT 3: Agree with altomax. The politicians and advisors just seem lost. They seen to follow (second rate) consultants blindly when it comes to IT, and appear incapable of drawing up a copper-fastened contract WRT anything. To be cynical, one could say that those who can't teach, govern.
Are there any government departments that use computers well?

Xian

Originally posted by ando
excuse my lack of indept knowledge of the bill, but what does this exactly mean?

As far as the ODTR goes, nothing.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48186]
Regardless of legislative changes or their powers in this matter, they (the ODTR) pointed out that there is still no incentive for them to act unless an operator at least (blah, blah, blah...)

Ireland stands to be the first country to require legislation to require the telecoms regulator to require the introduction of FRIACO.

longword

Originally posted by Xian

Ireland stands to be the first country to require legislation to require the telecoms regulator to require the introduction of FRIACO.

And presumably the first country to pass up a clear and easy chance to fulfil this 'requirement', and instead fob us off for another year or more. Thanks Mary.