Flatrate easy ???

Stonemason

Having just received an itemised bill i was thinking while looking at the numbers i have phoned all clearly printed before my very eyes.Eircom know exactly which numbers are ISP numbers would it be to hard for them just to cancel out these numbers on your bill and charge you a flatrate of €20 a month surely this would save on having to have special numbers huge ammounts of modems ect ect and thus by-passing their argument about not being cost effective ?.The only problem i can forsee is that if like myself you use different ISP,s when traffics bad how would the other companys get their money ?.



Stone:D

Arboration

See, Eircom are alot like a spoilt teenager:
You tell them something for their own good; They ignore it.
You tell them to do something, you get; "I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE!!"
You tell them that something isn't fair; It's fair to them.


(sceptre: originally edited out comment. Re-reading comment, was too harsh to do so - misread it purely as an anti-Eircom rant (see guidelines). Replacing comment - apologies)

Winters

Originally posted by Arboration
See, Eircom are alot like a spoilt teenager:
You tell them something for their own good; They ignore it.
You tell them to do something, you get; "I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE!!"
You tell them that something isn't fair; It's fair to them. [/B]

I like the way you think

The reason esat have a hugh 1330 number is that it is not charged by eircom. Eircom will automaticly charge local phone calls which isp's use for your internet connection. If all the isp used a new special number it would fix this.

Stonemason

I know the reasoning behind the different numbers ala SNL.What i was driving at was that Eircom personaly could simply put into their bill generating program to list all calls to local net access points.They could even charge full price all the way through the bill and then at the end much like a frequent caller discount cut back the total for internet calls to no more than €20.This last idea would also be quite nice as you could see how much you would have been charge under their present pricing regime.Perhaps they could even do away with only being able to use local numbers in other words even long distance ISP,s within ireland would be charged at local rate so that the spread of user would be less likely to clogg up certain numbers.Surely there must be a way for other companys like esat to come to an arrangement with eircom so their numbers could be included in this list.



Stone

dahamsta

Although I believe that implementing flat-rate is a lot easier than we are led to believe, I'm very doubtful that it's "easy", period.

Redeveloping billing systems is awkward and difficult, because they are relied upon so heavily - they are after all eircom's bread and buter. In this case, because eircom will be required to roll out a wholesale product in parallel with a retail product, we're not just talking about eircom Plc's systems, we also need to consider the retailers, as they will require detailed information from eircom Plc.

There is also Regulation to consider. As far as I'm aware, the ODTR has only provided the 189x numbers, and has not developed Regulation for same. Regulation for these will be mandatory, and will be developed around negotiations between OLO's and the incumbent, in the same manner as LLU, contracts for which can now be pulled "off the shelf" for new entrants.

I realise I've stated in the past that flat-rate can be enabled "at the flick of a switch", but I now realise that I was wrong. (My apologies to those I've misled). However, this makes the requirement for movement on FRIACO all the more urgent.

EDIT: It's also important to point out that there are apparently still problems with 1891 provision. This should highlight the complications involved.

adam

Dustaz

Originally posted by dahamsta

I realise I've stated in the past that flat-rate can be enabled "at the flick of a switch", but I now realise that I was wrong. (My apologies to those I've misled). However, this makes the requirement for movement on FRIACO all the more urgent.

How long would it take, realistically?

Tellox

little over a month realisticly..

Fergus

Originally posted by dahamsta
Redeveloping billing systems is awkward and difficult, because they are relied upon so heavily

Though we are talking about converting from a system involving realtime tracking of usage for per-minute charging, to one of a fixed monthly fee. A lot simpler. You could even do it manually.

Originally posted by dahamsta
I realise I've stated in the past that flat-rate can be enabled "at the flick of a switch", but I now realise that I was wrong.

Still, it would appear Esat have been negotiating about how to do it with Eircom in the same time that BT have designed, implemented, revised, and made available to competitors, the whole technology.

Dustaz

yes, but BT didnt do that overnight.

What id basically like to know is if/when this magical EU legislation comes in and the ODTR go 'Righto, flat rate..now', how long should it take eircom to implement it (assuming they go about it in good faith and not stall at every oppurtunity)

Tellox

theres no doubt that they'll stall it a few times,I'd say 3weeks - 2months

dahamsta

I honestly don't know Dustaz. I've been told unofficially several times that FRIACO took three years to implement in the UK, but it wasn't made clear to me what that period of time encompassed. Speaking personally, I don't believe that the /actual/ implementation of FRIACO - by that I mean technically and legally, from decision to release - took anything like as long as that.

Neither do I believe the process will take anything like as long as that in Ireland, if someone, anyone, would take responsibility and start tackling the issue, instead of hiding behind each other, and blaming each other. What I do believe - know in fact - is that statements like this are becoming more and more common as IrelandOffline extends it's reach to achieve it's goals.

In the face of this, the arguments being propagated by Government, GO's, NGO's and operators are becoming increasingly hard to believe. We are constantly being assaulted by spurious claims, accusatory finger-pointing, malicious misdirection and tangential issues that have no bearing on our campaign; all of which should be viewed by the leadership, and the membership, as facetious.

I won't go into the lies and deceit being propagated by these organisations, because I feel sure that IrelandOffline will go into it in far more detail than I could, in the coming weeks and months. But I will say that it is a sure sign that IrelandOffline is bringing pressure to bear. When claims like this are on the increase, someone is doing something right.

adam

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by dahamsta
I honestly don't know Dustaz. I've been told unofficially several times that FRIACO took three years to implement in the UK, but it wasn't made clear to me what that period of time encompassed. Speaking personally, I don't believe that the /actual/ implementation of FRIACO - by that I mean technically and legally, from decision to release - took anything like as long as that.

I remember a couple of years ago seeing an item on Sky News' "Technofile" programme (sadly, no longer on air) when they were discussing FRIACO and all that. Apparently, it took about three years to sort out all the legal wranging between BT, OFTEL, CUT, AOL, Worldcom, etc., to actually get FRIACO agreed upon, so you're right on that part, Adam. But according to this item, once it was agreed upon the actual implementation of the service took about six weeks. The presenters talked about how quickly something like the long-awaited arrival of flat-rate in the UK could be implemented so quickly once the lengthy process of cutting through all the crap was sorted.

That was the UK, though, and if it took six weeks over there I would expect it to take at least two to three months over here. After all, you know how relaxed and laid back us Irish are at things! lol

JTMan

The Implementation did take 6 weeks, correct ,but not without a lot of issue to be sorted.
1. BT first only allowed AOL to take the package until the regulator stepped in.
2. BT set minimum orders for FRIACO at the start only allowing the bigger ISP's to order it. Again the regulator stepped in and stopped this.
3. There were a lot of other technical issues that had to be sorted even months after its implementation.
4. The issue of the price of FRIACO was still argued out by UK ISP's until recently. The price was recently lowered by the regulator for BT Wholesale.

So, getting the package right took about 3 years. The implementation took about 6 weeks but issues over FRIACO still lingered for a while after implementation but have since subsided.

Every aspect of the UK package needs to be studied by ODTR as well as what went wrong after implementation. ODTR should consider hiring CUT as consultants to help design any future Flat-rate package.

Mark_irl

How long would it take, realistically?





Never gonna happen my friends!!!!!!!