creating a database driven site

mistercrow

Hi,

I need to create a database-driven site fairly pronto for a start-up. Thing is, my coding knowledge is sketchy. I've done a couple of ColdFusion courses though and know SQL so am thinking of using that.

Am looking for two things...

1. some advice on getting started, ie whether CF is a good idea, what database to use etc...

2. anyone who fancies a bit of consultancy work now and again to keep me on the straight and narrow.

The site will need to have a members area, where users can add to or amend their profiles. These profiles should be dynamically displayed on the site.

Anyone able to help?

damnyanks

It doesnt really matter what language you use but its nice to see someone using CFM (Me lurves it!:))

Anyway if its a smallish site use Access its quite handy and its easy for someone at the company without alot of "know how" to edit things straight from the db.

Keep me in mind for the consultancy I'll gladly help.

steve-hosting36

Hi Micstercrow,

Probably get flamed for this - but Frontpage has a wizard that does this, allows online registration and users maintain their own data, plus uses the members db to control access to directories. Runs with ASP and Access on a w2k server with Frontpage extensions and can be up and running in 15 minutes

Stephen

halfab

Why not give one of the many Content Management Systems a try ..
there is phpnuke and geeklog and many more , they use
sql and php and will run on *nix or Win32 servers
try www.irelandoffline.org for a look at geeklog and www.techseekers.net for phpnuke..

the most difficult part of getting them going is to find hosting that
provides these services.. (sql,php,apache, ) etc..
But other than that its pretty easy.

steve-hosting36

Check www.irishhostreview.com

Terminator

What you're suggesting is only easy when you know how to do it.

It is by no means a 15 minute job. To get it running and iron out bugs will take you at least 2 full days work so give yourself plenty of time.

The Corinthian

This looks like a commercial venture; as such many of the suggestions here may well be inadequate. Many CMS systems out there may not meet your application requirements (I won’t even respond to the FrontPage suggestion ) and you should also consider the importance (if any) of security and scalability to your offering. Finally, you have to consider maintenance of your application, whether who can handle it in house or you’ll have to farm it out – the technologies used will affect this greatly.

I would suggest that you have someone qualified scope your application and site properly, before you write a line of code. Otherwise you’ll end up taking a bath on the whole thing.

And all this presupposes that you’re working from a valid business case in the first place...

retneil

Another possibily is to run an MSSQL DB and use xml , java on the site..

mistercrow

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, this is a commercial venture and security and scalability will be important. I'd be hoping to cater initially for 1000 users with the possibility of accomodating 10,000/20,000 eventually.

However, we don't really a lot to spend initially. That's why I'm hoping to put at least a demo together myself.

From what I've read, I'm not sure if the Frontpage option would be sufficient, but I could be wrong.

As Corinthian suggests, a qualified scope sounds like exactly what I need. Any of you who responded consider yourselves qualified to conduct such a scope? I think I should be able to work out the coding as long as I get somebody to verify that the general principles of what I'm attempting are sound.

Anyone fancy the job, let me know and I'll contact you privately.
Cheers

Winters

I wouldnt advise using CF. Its VERY hard to find a good CF server and most of them are a lot more expensive. I would advise using ASP or PHP. Its VERY easy to find good ASP servers at good prices

damnyanks

I wouldnt advise using CF. Its VERY hard to find a good CF server and most of them are a lot more expensive. I would advise using ASP or PHP. Its VERY easy to find good ASP servers at good prices

www.gearhost.com
www.readyhosting.com
www.endore.net
www.cfxhosting.com
www.cfm-resources.com
www.crystaltech.com
www.nexpoint.com
www.media3.net
www.mediatemple.net
www.ucvhost.com

Thats just off the top of my head

CFM is a very good option, CFM MX was just released as well!

Winters

Humm. Thanks for the list. I had joined CFM-Resources and found themm to be VERY slow.

"Off the top of your head" do you know any good FREE ASP or CFM hosts?

DeVore

Spin Solutions do this sort of thing. Its not trivial and if you dont know what you are doing you *and* the company could end up taking a VERY expensive bath.

If this is a serious operation then you should think about a few things first (like, whats it supposed to do exactly, where are you going to host it? etc)

Oh, Access will support about 10 users before crashing everything. Dont even bother with it. MSSQL or Mysql or Oracle are the choices really.

You are really getting into some trouble if you arent experienced in this field... if you need a steer, mail me I can help but after a few helpful mails and calls, you are either on your own or you'll have to hire us.

DeV.
tom@spin.ie

LoLth

www.brinkster.com

they're a free ASP host that also run subscrition packages if you want to expand in the future. The free one has 30mb space.

Don't know about CF ones though.

Winters

I'm already with brinkster. They seem to be the best of the lot.

damnyanks

I dont know any other free CFM hosts. You have to remember that it costs 5k to buy the software alone.

anthonymcg

I'd go with PHP and mySQL. For an app that needs to hold data on a 1,000 + users you need a fast database and mySQL will provide just that. Nasa even use it!!

PHP is relatively easy to learn and can be incredibly powerful when used right. There's also a load of web communities dedicated to helping you if you have any problems. Free hosting is hard to find with PHP and mySQL but most paid-for hosts will offer it (sometimes cheaper than ASP/Access/SQL Server).

Whatever you do I wouldn't use Access as the database. It struggles to handle a lot of concurrent users and can be really slow when retrieving large result sets.

I'm building an app with PHP/mySQL at the moment and am glad I took the time to plan it fully. Getting the database schema right first time is vital as you will spend a lot of time trying to fix it later if its not right. You'd also need to do System Sequence diagrams and maybe Entity Relationship diagrams but that depends on the app. Don't undervalue planning though cos it'll be crucial.

Gavin

Doing it in UML is always a good way to go about it alright. Most of these things are a bog standard three tier architecture, MVC pattern. Enormous amount of examples out there.

I'd recommend either php/mysql/postgresql or
for the slightly more serious route jsp/servlets/mysql/postgresql. Struts is a quite good framework that you can build your app on. Check out jakarta.apache.org/struts

Gav

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Verb
I'd recommend either php/mysql/postgresql or
for the slightly more serious route jsp/servlets/mysql/postgresql. Struts is a quite good framework that you can build your app on. Check out jakarta.apache.org/struts

Business considerations are equally important, if not more so; the cost of initial development and ongoing maintenance cost, to begin with. Issues such as what type of transactions will be required by the application, what load is it likely to be under, how important is security, what technical resources are in-house and what revenue is it expected to ultimately generate are all of critical importance.

The error in many application architectures is that they will often be techno-centric and an overkill for what is needed by the application. What can be worse is where an application, beyond even the initial development and set-up, can cost more to maintain than it will generate as an e-business. This was the reason for many dot bombs.

For most Irish based e-commerce sites, I would generally go for PHP/MySQL or ASP/SQL Server, with the only black mark against the former being a more limited number of experienced developers to maintain it than for an IIS based application. Java based solutions, unfortunately have the highest price tags in terms of labour costs, and the scalability afforded by JSP/Servlet based applications is unnecessary for the vast majority of Irish based e-businesses.

DJB

Hi mistercrow,

Our company's (Dynamic Web Solutions Ltd) sole products/services are Content Manager Systems and Website Hosting. Our range of CMS's are called Site Managers. We build general CMS's for resale to numerous companies at cheaper prices, such as Property Site Manager, Car Site Manager, E-Commerce Site Manager, etc. We also build Custom Site Manager's for certain clients.

We build complete administration control panels, so all content can be controlled easily. We can incorporate numerous functions, including e-commerce, user logins, user level access, file uploads, and so much more.

We program in ASP and VBScript with the option of an Access Database or MS SQL Database. Our hosting plans fully supports all of these with numerous features with our hosting control panel.

If you would like a consultant, a hand in planning/development or just a light chat, you can contact me on 042 9355048 or email me at david@site-manager.com.

Regards,



David

The Corinthian

As an additional point, if you’re looking for an architecture that best fits your requirements, do not get your initial scooping done by the development firm that will actually do the development work. Otherwise the spec you’ll get will reflect their in-house skills and requirements before your own.