What console would you buy?

Shinji

Ladies and gentlemen of the gaming jury, I rest my case. XBox is the console of this generation.

Misery loves company. You just bought an Xbox, didn't you?


Oh yes, by the way, your comments on the hard drive are not only factually inaccurate (only 1gb of that space can actually be used for save games, the rest being set aside for settings and caching purposes, and besides, the whole point of a card is that it's removable - something the Xbox bodges horribly by having many games whose saves are so large they won't fit on a removable card, bit of a bummer if your console fails...) but are also entirely beside the point - as are your comments on technical abilities.

Do you know, out of the last generation of consoles, what the single most powerful and technically advanced one was? A console which also had internal save RAM?

Yep. The Sega Saturn.

Q.E.D.

chernobyl

My battery died and i lost all my nights anf VF saves...bah
VF4 this friday and the only thing that has improved is graphics.

Shinji

You reckon? :eek:

I really like VF4 - it feels a lot more solid and responsive than the previous games, and the AI training mode is absolutely bloody superb. Definitely entertaining enough to tide me over until Soul Calibur II, although I think SC might still be pulled out for late night drunken fun....

entropi

Originally posted by Shinji





Mmm, in terms of games pipeline, stuff I'm looking forward to on PS2 over the coming year or so:



Shinobi

Shinobi... wtf!!!

I LOVED this game in the arcade ffs.... lovely


oh,and i want a PC, so i can play DaoC @ home instead of DNC all the time [ not that i hate dnc ]

Doodee

Any1 know when the Japaneese Version of the X-Box Controller is set to come out??

Eager to get one.

Dont be at yourself

Err, its not.

They brought out a smaller version of the XBox joypad that was similar to the Japanese one in the US and said that if there was demand for it in Europe, they'd release it. That's the last that was said about it.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by Shinji


Misery loves company. You just bought an Xbox, didn't you?


Oh yes, by the way, your comments on the hard drive are not only factually inaccurate (only 1gb of that space can actually be used for save games, the rest being set aside for settings and caching purposes, and besides, the whole point of a card is that it's removable - something the Xbox bodges horribly by having many games whose saves are so large they won't fit on a removable card, bit of a bummer if your console fails...) but are also entirely beside the point - as are your comments on technical abilities.

Do you know, out of the last generation of consoles, what the single most powerful and technically advanced one was? A console which also had internal save RAM?

Yep. The Sega Saturn.

Q.E.D.

OK, first off the game saves aren't that large - considering the XBox also has a memory card to remove saves and transfer them to other XBox consoles.

Again, another one of your points is entirely invalid - oodles of people have complained time and time again about their memory cards failing, it's just as likely to happen to an official memory card as it is to a Hard Drive.

And we move onto your last point. The Sega Saturn. The Saturn was poorly put together, rushed through development, and after originally being intended for 2D purposes, they tried to change it to 3D. It was a mess. A spontaneous, occasionally loveable mess, but a mess nonetheless.

Was that lifted straight from an X-Box advert?

Poo. I wish :P Maybe they'll give me a job writing their adverts...my rant certainly beats the mosquito advert by a long shot, wouldn't you agree --_--

segadreamcast

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan


I play games, not statistics though.

And the games I want to play are by in large GameCube bound.

I love the way you chose the part of my post that didn't mention games - and decided to ignore the part that mentions the masterpieces that came out on launch day. GameCube had a good launch lineup - but I still think PGR was the white knight that claimed it for XBox.

Praetorian

I would get a PS2 but only for MGS2...In fact Retro can I borrow yours? Sure your doing exams n e way atm :P

I would get an X-Box but I think all its good games will come out on the pc eventually anyway. Hmm I need a DVD player for my telly.

I dont like Nintendo. In fact I really dont like that little man that runs around getting high on mushrooms :P

BUT OMG that Star Wars game looks fantastico!

Maybe Ill just get all three...that way I wont miss out on any great games!

P.S. Long live the Dr3aMca$t

logic1

Originally posted by NoelRock

Ladies and gentlemen of the gaming jury, I rest my case. XBox is the console of this generation.

Keep it then. I want a next generation console.

.logic.

segadreamcast

*Loved his Dreamcast* *Sigh* *Sniffle*

segadreamcast

Originally posted by logic1


Keep it then. I want a next generation console.

.logic.

Enjoy waiting for your PS3 in 2005 then... let me know how that turns out.

Dont be at yourself

I'll adress the rest now then.

[1]has four players without a multitap, and has [2]broadband connectivity. It's also the most powerful of the four - and overall, I believe, has the [3]best launch lineup thus far including JSR Future, Halo, Project Gotham Racing (Yes, I own GT3, and I believe PGR manages to keep good balances of realism and fun, which GT3 simply did not achieve), Dead or Alive 3, Amped, Rallisport Challenge - and so many more besides.

1. Four players without a multi-tap. So does GC, GC and N64.

2. I must admit, I do love the broadband connectivity though. I cannot wait until Microsoft get their finger out and either admit that they're not going anwhere near the mess that is Europe when it comes to broadband or actually announce their online plans for Europe.

But hey, with all that waiting (and boy, that's a whole lot of waiting), Ireland might actually have broadband!

Then all I'll need are some multi-player games.

3. I'll give you Halo. I'll even give you JSR:F, at a stretch (if it wasn't so fantastically outshone by its big brother, natch). I will not, however, agree that games which are essentially prettier looking versions of games that appeared on consoles long since gone constitute the best launch line-up ever. Where's the originality? Where's the "Ooh, I haven't seen this on other consoles" factor? Wanna know? Its in Super Monkey Ball. Its in Luigi's Mansion.

And, lets face it, there is very, very little in the XBox's upcoming releases that look like changing things. Unless you can see originality in the plague of third person adventures and first person shooters, that is.

chernobyl

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
I'll adress the rest now then.

And, lets face it, there is very, very little in the XBox's upcoming releases that look like changing things.

Now thats not like you Nekki, but maybe this is a prespective thing but thats an unfounded statement.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
I'll adress the rest now then.



1. Four players without a multi-tap. So does GC, GC and N64.

2. I must admit, I do love the broadband connectivity though. I cannot wait until Microsoft get their finger out and either admit that they're not going anwhere near the mess that is Europe when it comes to broadband or actually announce their online plans for Europe.

But hey, with all that waiting (and boy, that's a whole lot of waiting), Ireland might actually have broadband!

Then all I'll need are some multi-player games.

3. I'll give you Halo. I'll even give you JSR:F, at a stretch (if it wasn't so fantastically outshone by its big brother, natch). I will not, however, agree that games which are essentially prettier looking versions of games that appeared on consoles long since gone constitute the best launch line-up ever. Where's the originality? Where's the "Ooh, I haven't seen this on other consoles" factor? Wanna know? Its in Super Monkey Ball. Its in Luigi's Mansion.

And, lets face it, there is very, very little in the XBox's upcoming releases that look like changing things. Unless you can see originality in the plague of third person adventures and first person shooters, that is.

And off we go:

1. The multiplayer point was showing one way in which XBox is superior to PS2, just like the DVD point shows how PS2 and XBox are superior to GC. See also; the Hard Drive point - showing how the XBox bounces the GC and PS2 out of the water because you have to *buy* a memory card for those - and not only that, the memory card is extremely small compared to the hard drive.

2. I-stream is launching next week. More people have broadband access now.

3. Munch's Oddysee? The game that PS2 fanboys were screaming about until they decided to leap ship to XBox? Super Monkey Ball - ah yes, a sequel is already on its way, how original. Luigi's Mansion - moreso, scraping the bottom of the barrel than innovation, which is blatantly obvious judging by its hiderous length.

On a final note - I won't deny it. Super Monkey Ball is a great game. Overall though, it's not exactly a must-have, and certainly isn't a "Halo" for GameCube.

Dont be at yourself

To Chernobyl:

Oh, I don't know.

I'm not anti-XBox or pro-Ninty/Sony. I believe that its the games that matter and when you're talking about investing in a new console you have to be pretty certain that there's going to be enough quality software out there to satisfy you.

The Playstation2 has shown that.

The GameCube is looking almost certain to show that - Nintendo have perhaps the premier games development teams on the planet and already the release list has a dozen games that I've earmarked for purchase.

The XBox? Halo. What else? Project Ego. Beyond that? There's very little in the way of format exclusive titles that would make me want an Xbox. Its problem, as far as I'm concerned, is its lack of eastern-style games. Even the games by Japanese developers are heavily westernised and frankly that's not something that appeals to me. I don't want to play identikit shooting games - I want Rez, I want ICO, I want Super Monkey Ball.

To NoelRock \m/:

1. The hardware is superior in that regard. Where are the multiplayer games? Again, there's sweet fuck all if you look past Halo.

Regarding memory cards vs harddrives: I'm a social gamer - I often take my THPS skater or PES team around to a friend's house on my memory card. That's something I can't do without spending a disgusting amount of money. And lets face it, harddrives are *far* less reliable than official memory cards.

2. Sorry, I meant affordable, useable broadband as opposed to i-stream.

3. Have you played Munch's Oddysee? It really isn't very good. Pretty, yes but ultimately it pales in comparison to much older examples of the genre.

And the sequel to Super Monkey Ball seems to be more than just a lazy update. A quest mode, new mini-games and more are promised. As for Luigi's Mansion, while it's not exactly a long game it is very polished, packed with lovely little easter-eggs and lets face it, it is innovative.

I agree though, currently the GC has no "killer app", not in the system selling sense at any rate. It does, however, offer a lot more diversity in its lineup than the XBox does and there is a whole bunch of system-sellers in store for us by the end of the year.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
The GameCube is looking almost certain to show that - Nintendo have perhaps the premier games development teams on the planet and already the release list has a dozen games that I've earmarked for purchase.

I'd be thinking more along the lines of Sega having the best development teams... even you said it yourself, twice infact, Super Monkey Ball a Sega game thankfully, glad to see them doing well and getting the appreciation they deserve.

Personally speaking though - I think GameCube is fairly similar to DC, and as much as I love my DC, I want something different, bold, cutting edge, more sophisticated gaming with racers, horror games, FPS and such.

Super Smash Brothers Melee, Mario Sunshine, Super Monkey Ball...all virtually the same styles of graphics; bright, colourful, bold. Eventually it looks like N64 in a way with Mario Party, Mario 64 and Smash Brothers...

Shinji

OK, first off the game saves aren't that large - considering the XBox also has a memory card to remove saves and transfer them to other XBox consoles.

Right, but my point was that this actually doesn't work for rather a lot of games, partially because Microsoft failed to implement TRC requirements for the memory card functions, and mostly because the actual handling of the memory cards by the Xbox API is a complete and utter cock-up. Like the stunning way that if you copy over a savegame for a particular game to your hard drive, even if there is an existing one there it overwrites it without prompting.... Nice one Microsoft!

Again, another one of your points is entirely invalid - oodles of people have complained time and time again about their memory cards failing, it's just as likely to happen to an official memory card as it is to a Hard Drive.

Actually, that's entirely untrue. The failure rate on official PS2 memory cards is well under 1% - I seem to recall one of the SCEE guys mentioning that it was something like one in eight thousand at launch, and a hell of a lot better since. The failure rate on Xboxes as a whole is about 1:1400 so far according to the last figures I saw. Hard drives have physical, moving components and are MUCH more liable to fail than solid state memory.

And we move onto your last point. The Sega Saturn. The Saturn was poorly put together, rushed through development, and after originally being intended for 2D purposes, they tried to change it to 3D. It was a mess. A spontaneous, occasionally loveable mess, but a mess nonetheless.

Apart from the 2D/3D thing (yeah, 3D took them by surprise in ways, although it's worth noting that the Saturn was still capable of better 3D performance than the PSX on paper...) that's a bit harsh.

Of course, if I were to point out that the Xbox was rather poorly put together and rushed through development (witness the current clashes between MS and NVIDIA over dev support, the utterly mangled libraries, the poor controller design, the constant dropping of the specs while some titles were already in dev...), originally intended for set-top box purposes (it's now fairly common knowledge that Xbox started life as a project called "HomeStation", which was designed as a .NET application box for your TV which would also play games and 3D apps) and then adapted for games console use.... Well, sounds like a mess really.

Now thats not like you Nekki, but maybe this is a prespective thing but thats an unfounded statement.

Really? Prove him wrong then. Show me the stunners in the forthcoming Xbox line-up that are going to have me wetting my pants in anticipation. I'm hoping some will show up at E3, because frankly right now it's looking bleak. And the Xbox is just too damned big to use as a doorstop.

the DVD point shows how PS2 and XBox are superior to GC.

Rubbish. The kind of folk who buy games consoles in Europe already own DVD players. They don't really care if the console ships with DVD playback or not, it's simply a non-issue. It was practically a non-issue when PS2 was released.

DVD playback is a nice bonus on a piece of consumer hardware. To a games console, and that's what we're discussing here, it's meaningless.

I-stream is launching next week. More people have broadband access now.

Uhhhhhhhh. Have you any concept what a small percentage of people even in the UK have got broadband? It's a non-starter right now.

Munch's Oddysee? The game that PS2 fanboys were screaming about until they decided to leap ship to XBox?

Do you want to know the real story about that one? The story where Oddworld were unceremoniously dumped by Infogrames because they couldn't make the game work on PS2 due to having no coding talent whatsoever? Where Lorne Lanning spent a trade show wandering about whinging about how Sony hated him? Where Microsoft gave them a huge money hat and bought them the (utterly cack) NetImmerse engine so they wouldn't have to code anything themselves?

Of course, the conclusion of the story is where the final game produced was frankly, an utter pile of cack, sold sod all units and proved a massive disappointment even to those who had liked the first two games, but lets not let the facts get in the way of a good bit of Xbox fanboyism, eh?




Oh, and as for your comments on originality.... Can I point out that your so-called "white knight" of the Xbox launch was a quick and dirty port of a Dreamcast game? That Halo, far from being "Combat Evolved", is a collection of cliches from PC FPS games of the last while, and while it certainly has its moments, is ultimately a dull and unsatisfying FPS game which any PC gamer will grow tired of very quickly? That DoA3 /is/ DoA2 with prettier graphics?



Not that it's worth arguing over really. People have voted with their feet. Xbox is holding on with its fingernails in Europe, has failed beyond all hope of redemption in Japan, and isn't doing half as well in the USA as everyone seems to think - software sales on it there have been DIRE since Christmas.

Buying an Xbox is possibly the poorest investment a games player could make right now.

Dont be at yourself

Sega are certainly up there with the best development teams and are one of the XBox's only rays of hope in my opinion.

Interesting side note: The SMB team are currently developing the GC exclusive titles Super Monkey Ball 2 and F-Zero.

Initial signs suggest that the GC won't be just another DC too. Sales figures are high, the number of third party developers are high and Nintendo are pushing it very aggressively.

You want horrors? Resident Evil, GC exclusive. You want FPS? Perfect Dark. Die Hard. Metroid.

Lastly, the Mario games have no choice but to base their look on the source material really. They can't have a 6 foot tall trenchcoat clad, crack smoking, gun-toting protaganist - its Mario. Mario is bright, Mario is colourful.

With all that said though, Nintendo are showing signs of diversity. Zelda is unlike anything seen before in the world of videogames and Metroid Prime hardly fits the "bright and colourful" brief.

chernobyl

Originally posted by Shinji

Really? Prove him wrong then. Show me the stunners in the forthcoming Xbox line-up that are going to have me wetting my pants in anticipation.

I could not possibly comment on such matters Shinji considering i have never witnessed you wetting your pants and could not come to any conclusion of one type of game = cack and the other = wet pants.

.......... but i will list what i am looking foward to (Xbox only).

CMR3
Duke Nukem Forever
Morrowind
LOTR (one can only hope)
House of the Dead 3
Hunter
MotoGP
Project Ego
Sega GT
Soul Calibur 2
Unreal

segadreamcast

Originally posted by Shinji


Actually, that's entirely untrue. The failure rate on official PS2 memory cards is well under 1% - I seem to recall one of the SCEE guys mentioning that it was something like one in eight thousand at launch, and a hell of a lot better since. The failure rate on Xboxes as a whole is about 1:1400 so far according to the last figures I saw. Hard drives have physical, moving components and are MUCH more liable to fail than solid state memory.

1:1400 seems to be less than "Well under 1%".

Apart from the 2D/3D thing (yeah, 3D took them by surprise in ways, although it's worth noting that the Saturn was still capable of better 3D performance than the PSX on paper...) that's a bit harsh.

Yeah but the mess they had created made it so utterly hard for people to program for that they just gave up on it.

Of course, if I were to point out that the Xbox was rather poorly put together and rushed through development (witness the current clashes between MS and NVIDIA over dev support, the utterly mangled libraries, the poor controller design, the constant dropping of the specs while some titles were already in dev...), originally intended for set-top box purposes (it's now fairly common knowledge that Xbox started life as a project called "HomeStation", which was designed as a .NET application box for your TV which would also play games and 3D apps) and then adapted for games console use.... Well, sounds like a mess really.

HomeStation is and always was a seperate project that Microsoft have always put on the backburner - it's a full out home entertainment system and looks like it could probably be the successor to the XBox - thought they need a better name than HomeStation...looks like a Sony rip-off in all honesty.

Really? Prove him wrong then. Show me the stunners in the forthcoming Xbox line-up that are going to have me wetting my pants in anticipation. I'm hoping some will show up at E3, because frankly right now it's looking bleak. And the Xbox is just too damned big to use as a doorstop.

The Sega lineup for E3 I like, Crazy Taxi 3, House of the Dead 3, Shenmue 2 (on the MS stand) (Note: Yes, this was on the DC already, but without the English voiceovers, it was dire and to be honest I felt like I was playing a straight import with no real effort put into it) and there are a few more too - admittedly I'm a bit miffed, GC have an equal if not better lineup from Sega for E3 (SMB2, PSO and such)

Rubbish. The kind of folk who buy games consoles in Europe already own DVD players. They don't really care if the console ships with DVD playback or not, it's simply a non-issue. It was practically a non-issue when PS2 was released.

If it's rubbish - then why don't I have a DVD player. If it's rubbish - then why did Nintendo go to the bother of making the "Q". If it's rubbish - then why is the word on the street "I'd buy it, but it doesn't have enough features." You need versatility now, not just a one trick pony, and the GC increasingly looks like that.

DVD playback is a nice bonus on a piece of consumer hardware. To a games console, and that's what we're discussing here, it's meaningless.

Games consoles are now as common place as CD players and video recorders - I think its a major coup if you can hit two birds with one stone and have a DVD player and a spectacular games console in a box.

Uhhhhhhhh. Have you any concept what a small percentage of people even in the UK have got broadband? It's a non-starter right now.

Does it matter? Once XBoxLive goes on, I can play against people from all over the globe. I don't need x percentage of British people to play against me, I don't need x percentage of Irish people to play against me. I can play against anyone, anytime, from anywhere around the world. Can you do that on a GC as standard? I think not.

Do you want to know the real story about that one? The story where Oddworld were unceremoniously dumped by Infogrames because they couldn't make the game work on PS2 due to having no coding talent whatsoever? Where Lorne Lanning spent a trade show wandering about whinging about how Sony hated him? Where Microsoft gave them a huge money hat and bought them the (utterly cack) NetImmerse engine so they wouldn't have to code anything themselves?

Of course, the conclusion of the story is where the final game produced was frankly, an utter pile of cack, sold sod all units and proved a massive disappointment even to those who had liked the first two games, but lets not let the facts get in the way of a good bit of Xbox fanboyism, eh?

Love the way you turned the fanboyism around on me - and you Nintendo fans talk about originality... perhaps you should apply that to your posts as well.

Fine, I'll give you this one, I have no interest in Oddworld whatsoever, it only got seven out of ten, average piece of work - and I didn't like the first two Oddworld games. So that's that.

Oh, and as for your comments on originality.... Can I point out that your so-called "white knight" of the Xbox launch was a quick and dirty port of a Dreamcast game? That Halo, far from being "Combat Evolved", is a collection of cliches from PC FPS games of the last while, and while it certainly has its moments, is ultimately a dull and unsatisfying FPS game which any PC gamer will grow tired of very quickly? That DoA3 /is/ DoA2 with prettier graphics?

Play Metropolis Street Racer and Project Gotham Racing - they're about as similar as Gran Turismo 1 is to 3.

Not that it's worth arguing over really. People have voted with their feet. Xbox is holding on with its fingernails in Europe, has failed beyond all hope of redemption in Japan, and isn't doing half as well in the USA as everyone seems to think - software sales on it there have been DIRE since Christmas.

Consoles are one of Japan's last exclusive assets really - they killed off Atari, and now they're trying to take Microsoft off the scene too. Why? It's because they're conceited and won't buy anything but their own. Besides, it's a small country, Microsoft don't need their sales...but they may need their games...

Buying an Xbox is possibly the poorest investment a games player could make right now.

I didn't buy it right now. I bought it on March 14th. Second person in Ireland to do so. And if I could buy it right now, I would buy it right now, and I advise anybody who has an iota of gaming sense do so too - otherwise you're simply denying yourself the ultimate gaming experience.

Shinji

1:1400 seems to be less than "Well under 1%".

Indeed, but it's a bit rubbish for a console which has only been out a few weeks. The PS2 memory cards manage fail rate an order of magnitude lower in hardware that's been out there for 18 months. Bear in mind that the Xbox hard drives haven't had a chance to get hit by hardware wear and tear yet.... (never mind fragmentation. Fat16 filesystem, how stupid is that eh?)

HomeStation is and always was a seperate project that Microsoft have always put on the backburner - it's a full out home entertainment system and looks like it could probably be the successor to the XBox

It might be a good idea if you stopped believing everything that you read in PC Format or on random websites. That is NOT what Homestation was. Homestation was a project which was ultimately killed by Microsoft but its basic prototype was adapted for use as Xbox. It is not a successor to Xbox, it is not "on the backburner".

The Sega lineup for E3 I like, Crazy Taxi 3, House of the Dead 3, Shenmue 2 (on the MS stand) (Note: Yes, this was on the DC already, but without the English voiceovers, it was dire and to be honest I felt like I was playing a straight import with no real effort put into it)

HOTD3 is the only Xbox-exclusive title in that lot, and even that is unlikely to be the case forever. (I'm going to ignore your comment about the vastly superior version of Shenmue 2 with the English subtitles and Japanese voices, and just assume that you're having some kind of psychotic episode which makes you think that the people who do voices for a fiver an hour when not working in Burger King are somehow better than professional Japanese voice actors...).

If it's rubbish - then why don't I have a DVD player.

You'll pay £300 Stg for a substandard console at launch, but won't fork out £150 Stg for a decent DVD player. Well, I don't know WHY, but frankly I don't think I'm qualified to investigate the reasons. The kind of people who do that usually have "Doctor" in front of their name

If it's rubbish - then why did Nintendo go to the bother of making the "Q".

They didn't. Panasonic paid them quite a large amount of money for the rights to incorporate the Cube hardware into the Q.

If it's rubbish - then why is the word on the street "I'd buy it, but it doesn't have enough features."

Which street? Because you know, that's not what I'm hearing. It's not what the retailers or developers or publishers I speak to are hearing. It's not what the Chart-Track figures this week are showing. And frankly I think the figures, and the response from the industry, is worth a hell of a lot more as evidence goes than the "word" on your "street". Whichever street that may be.

You need versatility now, not just a one trick pony, and the GC increasingly looks like that.

Given that the GameCube's "one trick" is "being a games console", I really think you're talking an astonishing amount of rubbish.

Once XBoxLive goes on, I can play against people from all over the globe.

Assuming that you haven't developed arthiritis in your hands, that is. Don't hold your breath for Xbox online stuff, especially not in Europe. Microsoft themselves aren't sure what they're doing with it yet - I suspect that Sony will have PS2 online gaming working here before MS get their finger out.

I also love your "I'm all right jack" argument here. YOU have broadband, so what does it matter that the rest of Europe doesn't? I thought we were discussing the virtues of the console and its potential for market success here, not how lucky you are to have broadband?

Love the way you turned the fanboyism around on me - and you Nintendo fans talk about originality...

I turned nothing around on you; you made some of the most astonishingly fanboyish statements I've seen on this board in ages (hey look, here's another one - "you're simply denying yourself the ultimate gaming experience"; don't you sense your lower intestine jumping up to strangle your brain when you type PR-style nonsense like that?) and I highlighted them as such.

For what it's worth, I'm not actually a Nintendo fanboy. I like what they've done with the Cube and I'm not blinkered about their games like certain people.

Play Metropolis Street Racer and Project Gotham Racing - they're about as similar as Gran Turismo 1 is to 3.

So, eh, slightly better graphics but basically the same game.

Which is what I was saying all along really.

By the way, you seem to assume that GT3 is some form of amazing killer app for the PS2... Well, er, it's not. It sold about 2k-3k extra PS2s in the week it was launched, but the baseline sales of the console remained exactly the same. Onimusha a couple of months later sold far more consoles than GT3 ever did.

Besides, it's a small country, Microsoft don't need their sales...

Heh, really? Third largest console market in the world... Yes, the Xbox could survive a failure there on purely financial grounds, but the fact that no Japanese developer would work on the system would kill it outright. And, in fact, that's pretty much what's happening.

Sega are the only major Japanese developer doing genuinely interesting stuff on Xbox, and their support for it is increasingly grudging. MS gave them a money hat, so there's a certain level of commitment, but there are stong rumours around that Sega are effectively going to refuse to develop anything on Xbox that MS don't pay 100% of development costs on.

I didn't buy it right now. I bought it on March 14th. Second person in Ireland to do so.

Like I said, misery loves company...

tman

2 words... metroid prime

segadreamcast

Originally posted by Shinji


Indeed, but it's a bit rubbish for a console which has only been out a few weeks. The PS2 memory cards manage fail rate an order of magnitude lower in hardware that's been out there for 18 months. Bear in mind that the Xbox hard drives haven't had a chance to get hit by hardware wear and tear yet.... (never mind fragmentation. Fat16 filesystem, how stupid is that eh?)

Hello? A few weeks? Try a few months considering the stats for XBox hard drive failures are in line with the American ones.

It might be a good idea if you stopped believing everything that you read in PC Format or on random websites. That is NOT what Homestation was. Homestation was a project which was ultimately killed by Microsoft but its basic prototype was adapted for use as Xbox. It is not a successor to Xbox, it is not "on the backburner".

I have (fairly good but not marvellous) connections with Microsoft. I don't read PCFormat. I know what I'm talking about. You work for eurogamer.net - I suppose that's where you get most of your nonsensical waffle.

HOTD3 is the only Xbox-exclusive title in that lot, and even that is unlikely to be the case forever. (I'm going to ignore your comment about the vastly superior version of Shenmue 2 with the English subtitles and Japanese voices, and just assume that you're having some kind of psychotic episode which makes you think that the people who do voices for a fiver an hour when not working in Burger King are somehow better than professional Japanese voice actors...).

It enhances a game, games are an interactive multimedia experience - listening to Japanese while reading English DOES have an effect on a good game. Fiver an hour? Better pay than you deserve...

You'll pay £300 Stg for a substandard console at launch, but won't fork out £150 Stg for a decent DVD player. Well, I don't know WHY, but frankly I don't think I'm qualified to investigate the reasons. The kind of people who do that usually have "Doctor" in front of their name

DVD Player = 150 Stg
GameCube (An example) = 129 Stg

279 Stg with two pieces of equipment I don't really want - compared to 300 Stg of kit that no non-biased gamer can live without. Yes...I see your point...and it makes no sense.

They didn't. Panasonic paid them quite a large amount of money for the rights to incorporate the Cube hardware into the Q.

Considering the budget Nintendo paid for the Irish launch, I suppose 30 quid looks like a lot of money.

Which street? Because you know, that's not what I'm hearing. It's not what the retailers or developers or publishers I speak to are hearing. It's not what the Chart-Track figures this week are showing. And frankly I think the figures, and the response from the industry, is worth a hell of a lot more as evidence goes than the "word" on your "street". Whichever street that may be.

Get with the program - even the Dreamcast had a good chart run for the weeks following launch. Oh, and try every street in Dublin...but you wouldn't know much about the outdoors...

Given that the GameCube's "one trick" is "being a games console", I really think you're talking an astonishing amount of rubbish.

And that's about it. When I want to watch a movie - my Cube would go off and a DVD player would go on. When I want to play online my cube would go off and my PC would go on. Get with the times and stop acting so grostequely biased towards Nintendo - not noticing their shortcomings and trying to cover them up.

Assuming that you haven't developed arthiritis in your hands, that is. Don't hold your breath for Xbox online stuff, especially not in Europe. Microsoft themselves aren't sure what they're doing with it yet - I suspect that Sony will have PS2 online gaming working here before MS get their finger out.

I can already play XBox online...thanks for trying with that one though - but it really wasn't worth the typing.

For what it's worth, I'm not actually a Nintendo fanboy. I like what they've done with the Cube and I'm not blinkered about their games like certain people.

If you're not a Nintendo fanboy, then the PSOne isn't the best selling console ever. Don't talk more rubbish than you already are - I've been watching this place for a while now. And most posts show an obvious bias towards Nintendo and their jack in the box.

So, eh, slightly better graphics but basically the same game.

It's more than better graphics.

By the way, you seem to assume that GT3 is some form of amazing killer app for the PS2... Well, er, it's not. It sold about 2k-3k extra PS2s in the week it was launched, but the baseline sales of the console remained exactly the same. Onimusha a couple of months later sold far more consoles than GT3 ever did.

Wrong. Oh so badly wrong. GT3 basically turned around the PS2, and in subsequent weeks we saw a definite increase in sales. Don't kid yourself with false stats.

Like I said, misery loves company...

Indeed it does - under ten people at the Irish Gamecube Launch - over 250 for the XBox launch...yes, you must love company...goodness knows when you'd see that though.

CodeMonkey

It enhances a game, games are an interactive multimedia experience - listening to Japanese while reading English DOES have an effect on a good game. Fiver an hour? Better pay than you deserve...

If you ever read people's comments on the matter over the internet, you will find that most people would rather read the english subtitles than suffer through bad english voice overs.

279 Stg with two pieces of equipment I don't really want - compared to 300 Stg of kit that no non-biased gamer can live without. Yes...I see your point...and it makes no sense.

That's all your biased opinion, look at sales figures and what people are saying on this board alone, most people prefer a GC over xbox. It's 279 for 2 pieces of equipment most people here really want vs 300stg for a console that has no games they are interested in...

If you're not a Nintendo fanboy, then the PSOne isn't the best selling console ever. Don't talk more rubbish than you already are - I've been watching this place for a while now. And most posts show an obvious bias towards Nintendo and their jack in the box.

I am not 100% sure but I think the ps2 have already outsold the PSOne.

Indeed it does - under ten people at the Irish Gamecube Launch - over 250 for the XBox launch...yes, you must love company...goodness knows when you'd see that though.

Considering all the hype, I am not surprised more people show up at the XBox launch but...so what?

segadreamcast

Originally posted by CodeMonkey
If you ever read people's comments on the matter over the internet, you will find that most people would rather read the english subtitles than suffer through bad english voice overs.[/B

I'd prefer a choice of what I can and can't have anyday. Like in the original Shenmue.

That's all your biased opinion, look at sales figures and what people are saying on this board alone, most people prefer a GC over xbox. It's 279 for 2 pieces of equipment most people here really want vs 300stg for a console that has no games they are interested in...

I'll sum the games thing up for you: If you like one star wars game and a load of cartoon based graphics with no realism or tension whatsoever, then by all means, go for Gamecube.

I am not 100% sure but I think the ps2 have already outsold the PSOne.

In week to week sales yes. I'm talking about overall sales figures.

Considering all the hype, I am not surprised more people show up at the XBox launch but...so what?

Guess I'll have to sum this one up for you too - nobody cared about the GameCube to show up at midnight - it was a laughable farce. Unlike the slick, properly composed XBox event.

Dont be at yourself

I have (fairly good but not marvellous) connections with Microsoft. I don't read PCFormat. I know what I'm talking about. You work for eurogamer.net - I suppose that's where you get most of your nonsensical waffle.

In all fairness, how do your not marvellous connections with Microsoft make you know more about an industry that Rob has been writing about at the highest level for years?

It enhances a game, games are an interactive multimedia experience - listening to Japanese while reading English DOES have an effect on a good game. Fiver an hour? Better pay than you deserve...

Enhances the game? Arguable. The game's setting is very clearly an eastern one - monotone american voice acting isn't going to help immerse the player in such a setting, and after all that is the game's aim. Subbing is generally preferred to dubbing when it comes to watching eastern movies or TV series and with good reason, voice acting goes some way to remove the immersion and emotion from the material.

And lets face it, "Do you know where the sailors hang out?" seems so much better when read quietly to yourself than when said aloud

279 Stg with two pieces of equipment I don't really want - compared to 300 Stg of kit that no non-biased gamer can live without. Yes...I see your point...and it makes no sense.

+ £30 STG for the mandatory DVD remote. So that's a saving of £50 STG on the GameCube and a standalone DVD player. And yet, in your eyes, the XBox is better value?

I wish I saw your point.

Considering the budget Nintendo paid for the Irish launch, I suppose 30 quid looks like a lot of money.

Nintendo didn't need to market the console as heavily as Microsoft did though. Their €100 marketting campaign, coupled with the good press and word of mouth that they'd been recieving, did more than enough to ensure that what little stock that remained after their hardcore fans had bought their consoles would be sold.

Get with the program - even the Dreamcast had a good chart run for the weeks following launch. Oh, and try every street in Dublin...but you wouldn't know much about the outdoors...

Lets face it, the Dreamcast didn't outperform the PS2's (which was released to a market pretty much devoid of competition, as opposed to the most heavily contested market in memory) opening weekend sales, did it?

And, as for Dublin's feedback: From the day the XBox launched in Ireland to the following Thursday, the Blanchardstown Centre (comprising HMV, Virgin, Game, Dixons and Currys) sold 16 XBoxen in total. 16 Gamecubes were sold in the same place by lunchtime on the 3rd of May.

And that's about it. When I want to watch a movie - my Cube would go off and a DVD player would go on. When I want to play online my cube would go off and my PC would go on. Get with the times and stop acting so grostequely biased towards Nintendo - not noticing their shortcomings and trying to cover them up.

Please, great wise one, explain how adding a feature such as DVD playback, something of which the vast majority of games players are going to have anyway, and subsequently increasing the price (not to mention size, eh?) of the console is a good thing? And while you're at it, explain how Nintendo's decision to release the only dedicated games console is a shortcoming?

It's more than better graphics.

Its not though. Its nothing more than a quick update - vehicle damage and a new location are pretty much the only differences.

Wrong. Oh so badly wrong. GT3 basically turned around the PS2, and in subsequent weeks we saw a definite increase in sales. Don't kid yourself with false stats.

GT3 *did* increase sales on the PS2 - but not by any real signficant amount. It wasn't until the strong autumn/winter lineup that sales picked up considerably. GT3 certainly didn't turn around the PS2's fortunes - it merely signalled an increase in the quality of the titles being released on the console.

Indeed it does - under ten people at the Irish Gamecube Launch - over 250 for the XBox launch...yes, you must love company...goodness knows when you'd see that though.

250 people at the launch - how many walked out with an XBox?
Its an accepted fact that the GameCube pissed on the XBox from a great height when launch-weekend sales are compared - its a mute point.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan


In all fairness, how do your not marvellous connections with Microsoft make you know more about an industry that Rob has been writing about at the highest level for years?

Eurogamer.net is most certainly not what I would call the highest level of gaming. And hey, at least I'm being honest, any info dubbed top secret in Microsoft I can't get access to. Anything below that I can normally get.

Enhances the game? Arguable. The game's setting is very clearly an eastern one - monotone american voice acting isn't going to help immerse the player in such a setting, and after all that is the game's aim. Subbing is generally preferred to dubbing when it comes to watching eastern movies or TV series and with good reason, voice acting goes some way to remove the immersion and emotion from the material.[

And lets face it, "Do you know where the sailors hang out?" seems so much better when read quietly to yourself than when said aloud

This is a tiny point - I can't believe you guys are stretching it out so much. Wouldn't it be so much better to have the choice of voiceovers OR subtitles OR both rather than "You're having subtitles or you're learning japanese."

+ £30 STG for the mandatory DVD remote. So that's a saving of £50 STG on the GameCube and a standalone DVD player. And yet, in your eyes, the XBox is better value?

I wish I saw your point.

+ 30 for the GC Memory Card. That wipes that out then.

Nintendo didn't need to market the console as heavily as Microsoft did though. Their €100 marketting campaign, coupled with the good press and word of mouth that they'd been recieving, did more than enough to ensure that what little stock that remained after their hardcore fans had bought their consoles would be sold.

Good press? Ugh, what press. TV3 and RTE covered the XBox launch - 98FM were there live and FM104 had a piece the following morning.

Oh you mean websites, well let's see, many didn't cover it, one or two panned the Irish launch, and a few biased people (who seriously could not have showed up at midnight if there were ten people) said it was a success.

Lets face it, the Dreamcast didn't outperform the PS2's (which was released to a market pretty much devoid of competition, as opposed to the most heavily contested market in memory) opening weekend sales, did it?

Obviously it didn't outperform the PS2's...nor did the GC's outperform the PS2's.

And, as for Dublin's feedback: From the day the XBox launched in Ireland to the following Thursday, the Blanchardstown Centre (comprising HMV, Virgin, Game, Dixons and Currys) sold 16 XBoxen in total. 16 Gamecubes were sold in the same place by lunchtime on the 3rd of May.

I can tell you now that that is utter crap, Game itself sold over 30 XBox's in that day alone. I should know, I was checking in and out.

Please, great wise one, explain how adding a feature such as DVD playback, something of which the vast majority of games players are going to have anyway, and subsequently increasing the price (not to mention size, eh?) of the console is a good thing? And while you're at it, explain how Nintendo's decision to release the only dedicated games console is a shortcoming?

It shows better value for money. It gives people a choice of what they want to do with one machine. Nintendo, frankly, have no great business sense when it comes to Europe - and once again they've misread us by releasing a console with no internet features at launch, no official internet features planned soon and no DVD.

It's not though. Its nothing more than a quick update - vehicle damage and a new location are pretty much the only differences.

New physics engine which overhauls gameplay and makes driving better - new cars (ugh, wow :P), vehicle damage, New York, which adds an extra 25% in terms of size to the game and there are a few more small touches.

GT3 *did* increase sales on the PS2 - but not by any real signficant amount. It wasn't until the strong autumn/winter lineup that sales picked up considerably. GT3 certainly didn't turn around the PS2's fortunes - it merely signalled an increase in the quality of the titles being released on the console.

It was one of the biggest in terms of releases Europe-wide. GTA3 and MGS2 outdid it but...this really marked the turning point for journalists etc to get behind it.

250 people at the launch - how many walked out with an XBox?
Its an accepted fact that the GameCube pissed on the XBox from a great height when launch-weekend sales are compared - its a mute point.

Over 90 people walked out with an XBox. Compared to the 5 that walked out with a GameCube at launch. Oh dear...

Dont be at yourself

Eurogamer.net is most certainly not what I would call the highest level of gaming. And hey, at least I'm being honest, any info dubbed top secret in Microsoft I can't get access to. Anything below that I can normally get.

1. Eurogamer puts the vast majority of games websites to shame - I can see why you mightn't like it though, its demograph isn't really the weenie fanboy type.

2. As far as I know, Rob's job has little to do with the content that you read on the website. So any collelations between what you perceive as substandard journalism on the website and Shinji don't really hold water.

Wouldn't it be so much better to have the choice of voiceovers OR subtitles OR both rather than "You're having subtitles or you're learning japanese."

Why? So we can wait anywhere from another 6 months to a year? No, I'll take my game BEFORE its been bastardised by some yankie localisation team, thanks.

Good press? Ugh, what press. TV3 and RTE covered the XBox launch - 98FM were there live and FM104 had a piece the following morning.

Oh you mean websites, well let's see, many didn't cover it, one or two panned the Irish launch, and a few biased people (who seriously could not have showed up at midnight if there were ten people) said it was a success.

Press? Try the numerous technology mags. Or videogame mags. Or try the various news agencies. Try any publication that reports on that kind of thing.

And lets face it, if a technology or computer game website isn't covering the launch of the GameCube, its not much of a website, is it? With that in mind, could you provide me with the names of some of these websites? I'd love to take a look.

And while you're at it, please tell me who panned the Irish launch. You don't get any marks if your answer is "my mate James down the pub".

Obviously it didn't outperform the PS2's...nor did the GC's outperform the PS2's.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Sorry, but 75k units over launch weekend in the UK and 50,000 in Germany *is* outperforming the PS2's launch weekend. Do a little research*, you'll see I'm right.

* You know, as opposed to sticking your head in the sand while repeating to yourself "I'm the one that's right, its everyone else that's wrong!"

I can tell you now that that is utter crap, Game itself sold over 30 XBox's in that day alone. I should know, I was checking in and out.

No, you're wrong. I have friends who work in Game, in Smiths, in Currys and a brother in HMV - my figures are fairly accurate. Maybe the person who you were talking to took pre-orders into account, some of which still haven't been collected.

It shows better value for money. It gives people a choice of what they want to do with one machine. Nintendo, frankly, have no great business sense when it comes to Europe - and once again they've misread us by releasing a console with no internet features at launch, no official internet features planned soon and no DVD.

Lets see, companies with bad sense...

Oh yeah, those crazy Nintendo guys. They really should have carried out some market research, eh? I mean releasing what is widely regarded as the ugliest console in the history of ugly consoles with a joypad widely regarded as being one of the most unusable joypads since the Sega fucking Master System at a pricepoint that priced themselves out of the market was pretty stupid, wasn't it?

They should have made some smart choices - made a cheap, powerful console that matches its competitors when it comes to games, doesn't fleece its customers for features that either a) they can't use in Europe because of the horrendous state of broadband in most countries (Ireland included), or b) they already have taken care of in the form of a standalone DVD player or at the very least a PS2.

And then, if they were extra clever, when their competitor was forced into cutting the price (and eating a nice big slice of humble pie) because if its hardware was selling any less sales would be in minus figures, they too would cut the price.

But nah, Nintendo don't have a clue.

It was one of the biggest in terms of releases Europe-wide. GTA3 and MGS2 outdid it but...this really marked the turning point for journalists etc to get behind it.

Biggest in terms of release? If by that you mean one of the PS2's more high profile games, then yes. But it didn't shift systems like GTA3 or MGS2 did.

Over 90 people walked out with an XBox. Compared to the 5 that walked out with a GameCube at launch. Oh dear...

Ok, take a deep breath - you may need to sit down for this.

Nintendo
Sold
More
Consoles
At
Launch
Than
Microsoft
Did.

Q.E.D.

Stop blabbing on about fucking launch partys - no one is going to care 2 weeks from now (not that they care now, for that matter) - weekly sale figures speak volumes and right now they're shouting that the GameCube's launch has been a success.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan


1. Eurogamer puts the vast majority of games websites to shame - I can see why you mightn't like it though, its demograph isn't really the weenie fanboy type.

2. As far as I know, Rob's job has little to do with the content that you read on the website. So any collelations between what you perceive as substandard journalism on the website and Shinji don't really hold water.

Yeah it's more a biased site for Nintendo zealots.

Why? So we can wait anywhere from another 6 months to a year? No, I'll take my game BEFORE its been bastardised by some yankie localisation team, thanks.

Then thank goodness we don't have people like you making decisions.

Press? Try the numerous technology mags. Or videogame mags. Or try the various news agencies. Try any publication that reports on that kind of thing.

And lets face it, if a technology or computer game website isn't covering the launch of the GameCube, its not much of a website, is it? With that in mind, could you provide me with the names of some of these websites? I'd love to take a look.

And while you're at it, please tell me who panned the Irish launch. You don't get any marks if your answer is "my mate James down the pub".

Technology mags weren't going by the Irish launch - don't kid yourself, and they're hardly going to ignore it.

Glad you asked about websites that panned it, here's one such site: http://www.irishplayer.com .

Besides, I don't think most Nintendo fans could quote from their mates in the pub...they aren't old enough to get into one of those.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Sorry, but 75k units over launch weekend in the UK and 50,000 in Germany *is* outperforming the PS2's launch weekend. Do a little research*, you'll see I'm right.

Maybe I was wrong, I'll get back to you on that one.

No, you're wrong. I have friends who work in Game, in Smiths, in Currys and a brother in HMV - my figures are fairly accurate. Maybe the person who you were talking to took pre-orders into account, some of which still haven't been collected.

I most certainly am not wrong. I was the 79th person to reserve with GAME and that was a full two weeks before launch - I cancelled a few days after launch because Virgin were opening at midnight. GAME did sell that many on that day - and I've seen the closing week sales figures too that say it. You talk about me and my mates...heh.

Lets see, companies with bad sense...

Oh yeah, those crazy Nintendo guys. They really should have carried out some market research, eh? I mean releasing what is widely regarded as the ugliest console in the history of ugly consoles with a joypad widely regarded as being one of the most unusable joypads since the Sega fucking Master System at a pricepoint that priced themselves out of the market was pretty stupid, wasn't it?

Oh get a decent opinion and actually use the joypad outside of a pod and you'll realise it's much more comfortable than most (I'm not gonna say Nintendo's because that's pretty good too) but I would say it's better than the PS2's...that controller gets too much praise and in reality it's not that good.

They should have made some smart choices - made a cheap, powerful console that matches its competitors when it comes to games, doesn't fleece its customers for features that either a) they can't use in Europe because of the horrendous state of broadband in most countries (Ireland included), or b) they already have taken care of in the form of a standalone DVD player or at the very least a PS2.

The DVD player ownership rates in this country are under 15% - there's still a large market out there.

And then, if they were extra clever, when their competitor was forced into cutting the price (and eating a nice big slice of humble pie) because if its hardware was selling any less sales would be in minus figures, they too would cut the price.

It's funny how you mock the XBox lowering price but then don't mock the kneejerk reaction by Nintendo evidently prompted by fear. You must enjoy fooling yourself - honestly you try it so much, next you're going to be telling me the decision by Nintendo to make shorter games is a good thing.

But nah, Nintendo don't have a clue.

No, they don't in Europe. NES was beaten by Master System. SNES was beaten hands down by Mega Drive. N64 was beaten by PlayStation and now GameCube is set to be beaten by either XBox or PS2.

Biggest in terms of release? If by that you mean one of the PS2's more high profile games, then yes. But it didn't shift systems like GTA3 or MGS2 did.

I know, that's why I mentioned GTA3 and MGS2...

Ok, take a deep breath - you may need to sit down for this.

Nintendo
Sold
More
Consoles
At
Launch
Than
Microsoft
Did.

Q.E.D.

Stop blabbing on about fucking launch partys - no one is going to care 2 weeks from now (not that they care now, for that matter) - weekly sale figures speak volumes and right now they're shouting that the GameCube's launch has been a success.

*Applause* Yes and now that their sad, usual, core group of zealots is out of the way, sales have in all parts gone down dramatically I hear - though this is unconfirmed so don't quote me on it.