sry.. But the story with ADSL at the moment is?

Kix · 05-06-2001 11:51pm

Originally posted by Ace Rimmer:
( why do you think they have all those multimedia companies

Generally I agree with you, but I guess that should be "had all those multimedia companies"

Son of Blam · 06-06-2001 12:09am

Hehehe, man this is a funny thread. A lot of wrong stuff has been posted though.

a) All of Eircom's DSL staff were not made redundant. The DSL team (called the Hotwire team) was shut down during Eircom Multimedia's "cutbacks" and most of the staff are doing different things, working in the NOC in Crown Alley and whatever.

b) Eircom aren't "anti-dsl". They're starting trials of new hardware next week with around 100 people, only from on exchange on the soutside to start with though. After that trial they'll do another trial in more exchanges. They want to start selling ADSL in September this year.

c) ADSL won't be a cheap alternative to leased lines. Main reason? Eircom are going to impose a 1 gig download limit a month on most of their ADSL packages. (typical price is 512k down/128k up at 60 quid a month, this isn't fixed however)

d) I know a lot of people here "work in the telcom business" or "were in a room full of Eircom executives" or "read the Irish Times everyday" but in reality there's no definite ADSL facts set in stone. However Eircom do want to sell it. Half the people who read the technology boards give out so much you'd swear they don't want ADSL to start happening. Believe me kiddos, September is when they wanna get that tasty broadband juice pumpin'.

-Son of Blam

Skeptic1 · 06-06-2001 12:13am

Originally posted by Ace Rimmer:
The silly story of xDSL that wont go away.....

I'm not for a moment disputing the truth of any of your points here. But I think there are several ways to look at the situation.

I have always felt that one of the reasons that Eircom do not xDSL is because they have no competition in this area. Without LLU, no other company can provide xDSL and consequently Eircom can continue to sell ISDN (hi-speed), 64kbs and 256kbs leased lines to customers.

I was aware that they hoped to provide video on demand, but I'm interested in your opinion on the above.

I'm surprised that they sacked their DSL specialists. I had always assumed that when LLU was finally settled, they would roll out a competing product in order to maintain market share. This sacking would indicate that they have no fears that LLU will occur (I mean actually letting competitors' equipment into their exchange). Or it could simply mean stripping off the fat for the Great Eircom Sale. Would you agree that having, say, Esat selling ADSL would be a disaster for Eircom?

BTW, I think the decision by the ODTR to deny Eircom the video on demand thing was wrong. It allowed NTL to relax and continue to provide 1950s style analogue cable television to most of Dublin, Galway and Waterford. After they announced their watered down plans this, in turn, took the pressure off Eircom and the ISPs. The decision was anti-competitive.

Your post means that the Ireland Offline needs to be more vigourous and agressive if it is to succeed. And I've no doubt it will succeed.

flamegrill · 06-06-2001 12:32am

Originally posted by Coyote:
Anyone who dose not think i'm telling the truth fine i do not care :P
it makes no diff to me if you think i'm telling the truth or not.
what i have told you is that is happening.

Coyote

I'm afraid to say that weather people believe you or not is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that know one knows for sure, I would say not even the eircom board of directors, know when exactly the role out of xDSL to us Joe Soaps is going to happen. I do believe we should all just sit tight and wait to see what happens and when it happens.

I also don’t think "we" as in us people who post on this tech forum do not want xDSL, we are merely anxious as to when it is going to happen, you all know IOL are cutting us off, so this is why.

Skeptic1 · 06-06-2001 12:34am

Originally posted by Son of Blam:

Hehehe, man this is a funny thread. A lot of wrong stuff has been posted though.

a) All of Eircom's DSL staff were not made redundant. The DSL team (called the Hotwire team) was shut down during Eircom Multimedia's "cutbacks" and most of the staff are doing different things, working in the NOC in Crown Alley and whatever.

Why, after three years of testing xDSL, are the DSL team doing different things when Eircom are about to launch DSL in september? Doesn't seem to make sense, but then we're talking about Eircom.

b) Eircom aren't "anti-dsl". They're starting trials of new hardware next week with around 100 people, only from on exchange on the soutside to start with though. After that trial they'll do another trial in more exchanges. They want to start selling ADSL in September this year.

They are always starting ADSL in about 3 months time. I remember when it was September 2000 they were starting ADSL. Staff within Eircom believed this too. I don't think Eircom are anti-dsl as such. What Eircom, like any other company, would like to do is make money without making doing anything. They will offer ADSL if there is no other option. You may be right this time, but you will need to do better to convince me.

c) ADSL won't be a cheap alternative to leased lines. Main reason? Eircom are going to impose a 1 gig download limit a month on most of their ADSL packages. (typical price is 512k down/128k up at 60 quid a month, this isn't fixed however)

I certainly believe this. If Eircom can prevent competition on their local lines (i.e. no LLU) then what we can expect is a crippled version of ADSL so they can continue to sell obsolete and inferior products for huge profits.

d) I know a lot of people here "work in the telcom business" or "were in a room full of Eircom executives"

Q: How can you tell an Eircom executive is lying?
A: You can see his lips moving.

I've never worked in Eircom but I know a few. Their main complaint is that they get the mushroom treatment.

or "read the Irish Times everyday" but in reality there's no definite ADSL facts set in stone. However Eircom do want to sell it. Half the people who read the technology boards give out so much you'd swear they don't want ADSL to start happening. Believe me kiddos, September is when they wanna get that tasty broadband juice pumpin'.
-Son of Blam

Forgive me for being Skeptical

[This message has been edited by Skeptic1 (edited 06-06-2001).]

chernobyl · 06-06-2001 12:34am

Originally posted by Son of Blam:

Eircom are going to impose a 1 gig download limit a month on most of their ADSL packages.
d) Believe me kiddos, September is when they wanna get that tasty broadband juice pumpin'.

-Son of Blam

A download limit means that this is not broadband.(this is just my opinion)

Britany Spears Looking incredible

dahamsta · 06-06-2001 12:44am

I also don’t think "we" as in us people who post on this tech forum do not want xDSL

Golden rule of posting on forums and mailing lists: Don't try and represent others.

I'd take DSL if it was offered me tomorrow, and I'd be willing to pay up to £150 a month for it, and that would *save* me money. Matter of fact, I'd be willing to pay that for a 64k always-on connection.

Course I'm not your average user, and some people might be p1ssed that I posted that, on the off chance that someone from Eircon would see it, but it's a fact, and I don't care. The current situation is already hurting my business, and when SNL goes it's going to make it even worse.

ODTR? Broaband? Broadband my **** . Come into the real world and have a look around Etain.

adam

chernobyl · 06-06-2001 12:47am

Originally posted by Poopman:
What are typical upload/download limits for adsl in USA?

in short...there are none.

chorus have started this crap with their 3GB cap on their "broadband" powernet.

Britany Spears Looking incredible

Lex_Diamonds · 06-06-2001 10:11am

OMG! I thought Chorus were bad with their 3gb!!! A 1gb limit would make ADSL unusable for any length of time.

Bard · 06-06-2001 10:43am

Originally posted by dahamsta:
sorry Bard, but as someone else pointed out that's been up there for ages, six months minimum. By all means fill it in though, let them know you're there.

Oh hell yeah- I accept that... I just said it was "interesting", that's all - it's interesting to see what this ISP are saying about xDSL... however factually bereft it may or may not be... - the link was really more for the benefit of those who may not have been aware of what Esat were publicly saying about DSL.

Bard

"Henry! The cat wants to go out!" ... "Oh dear, Min! Is he on fire, again?"

Skeptic1 · 07-06-2001 9:08am

Originally posted by Son of Blam:
b) Eircom aren't "anti-dsl". They're starting trials of new hardware next week with around 100 people, only from on exchange on the soutside to start with though. After that trial they'll do another trial in more exchanges. They want to start selling ADSL in September this year.
-Son of Blam

Interestingly, the Irish Times has a story in the print edition along these lines today. Unfortunately, it's not on the web. I hope you're wrong about the 1 gig download limit.

NORTH1 · 07-06-2001 9:17pm

Hello all.

I have been following this topic with a lot of interest and execitement with the thought of affordable fast internet connection. So when today I got a visit from an eircom sale’s rep, about my change from eircom to NTL due to NTL’s Free at weekend service, I though this was a good opportunity to ask about the “rolling out” of the DSL service in September.
He told me that he himself had heard nothing of the DSL service, put after mentioning my interest in returning to eircom if this service was coming available, he decided to make a call to his boss.
To which I got the following information.
Yes the DSL service is coming available in September,
Put only to the corporate market,
And they have no plans to make it available to the household consumer.

As I said this came from a sales rep from eircom so take from that what you may.

Brian.

Snaga · 07-06-2001 11:57pm

To be honest id be surprised if they were aiming their DSL to businesses rather than home users.

DSL is not a replacement for a leased line, purely because a leased line is the most stable type of connection out there, and large businesses want a robust connection and generally arent too woried about cost.

For SOHO(small office/home office) users DSL could be a major boon, but its as easy to supply it to them as it is to residential customers and i assume the pricing will be similar to both - although i assume residential will probably be on lower bandwidth

Gladiator · 08-06-2001 8:17am

NORTH1 there is a January dead line for llu,
the real one is august some time but they have about 3 months before the first exchange has to be unbundled, after that its fines.
It was generally excepted by all that eircom would release ADSL a few months before llu took place to crab the market.
Now I seriously dough they will limit it to business although they are the only ones likely to pay £50 for a 1gig limit.

Eircom always said they would only provide it for business but they also said that would be a t1 connection. on their site they clearly state there will be two versions, one of 500k/sec and the other of undecided higher value.

Either which way esat will release ADSL soon a few eircom has and they wont be limiting their service to business.im also guessing it wont have a 1gig limit either

Lex_Diamonds · 09-06-2001 12:06am

Gladiator, the deadline was last january. Eircom have been holding things up nicely you see

Gladiator · 09-06-2001 4:30pm

i know, that was the deadline for priceing llu, eircom met that with something like £40+ a month, at that stage all other telecos except esat pulled out.
now the odtr set a new deadline of some were in august were if eircom hasnt started llu, fines will follow and esat can sue eircom.
one problem, they have about 3 months before the first exchange has to be opened and 30 days for every one after that.
so the new real deadline for llu is sometime around january, persuming esat is on the ball to go into the exchanges every time a new stage coming around. i dont think they will be.
the only good thing about it is esat can pick the exchanges it wants to go into, otherwise eircom would start llu is the most unattractive exchanges in ireland and it would be years before llu reached dublin

irishguy · 11-06-2001 9:52pm

chernobyl,
the deffinition of broadband is anything over 56k dis includes isdn .but i know what u mean having a d/l limit is crap. if the have a 1gig d/l limit and a £60 a month charge they can can keep it at the moment i thae a 512k connection 4 £40 a month ,3gig d/l limit and 2p a meg after that.talking about vdsl which has a max speed at about 52mbs but can only run over 1,200 m of a copper twist pair btu if Fiber to the Neighborhood (FTTN) is implemented there will be no min range in built up areas .vdsl signels can run over fiber optic unlike adsl which would make is a more likly choise 4 the telecoms .also digital tv does not take up that much space so 1 said streaming mpeg 2 takes some thing like 6mbs ,well it doesent take quit that much but it doesent matter cus they aint going 2 b streaming the media it will be d/l like a file then expanded and played [this will happen with out delay so it will b like streaming media] copper cables we use in ireland provide 1.5mhz of sound bandwith and a digital channel using mpeg4 compression uses 0.6mhz to transmit 1 channel it will be decoded by a mpeg4 decoder at the receving end [it will be a box with a low spec pc in side,600mhz duron or celron]if u wanted 2 you could zip it as well and get another 10% compression but i think that u have enough space 4 as much as ur comp could handle.plez excuse my spelling i am dyslexic and too lazy to use spell check

chernobyl · 11-06-2001 10:04pm

Originally posted by irishguy:
chernobyl,
the deffinition of broadband is anything over 56k dis includes isdn

i know what broadband is so you dont need to get *****y with me.
i did say that it was in my opinion and not fact.

Moriarty · 11-06-2001 10:19pm

Originally posted by chernobyl:
i know what broadband is so you dont need to get *****y with me.
i did say that it was in my opinion and not fact.

'OooooooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooooo'

[IMG][/img]http://members.xoom.com/mrmoriarty/handbag.jpg

Moriarty
mrmoriarty@eircom.net

I Give up trying to get that image working

[This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 11-06-2001).]

Leverz · 11-06-2001 10:44pm

Originally posted by irishguy:
chernobyl,
the deffinition of broadband is anything over 56k dis includes isdn

The definition of broadband does not include ISDN.

chernobyl · 11-06-2001 10:54pm

Originally posted by Leverz:
The definition of broadband does not include ISDN.

it does actually.
Broadband is classified by "an always on connection" and ISDN falls under this catagory as it only take about 2 seconds to connect via ISDN.

jd · 11-06-2001 10:59pm

<definition>
Broadband refers to telecommunication that provides multiple channels of data over a single communications medium, typically using some form of frequency or wave division multiplexing. </definition>

now go and argue it amongst yourselves..

[This message has been edited by jd (edited 11-06-2001).]

Skeptic1 · 11-06-2001 11:01pm

Originally posted by Leverz:
The definition of broadband does not include ISDN.

It does if you live in Ireland

.

Seriously though, in common usage it's a relative term and depends on context in which it is used. It generally means significantly higher bandwidth than usual. For home users in the US it tends to start at 1.5 mb/s. In Britain it would be about 512 kb/s. In the corporate world 512K tends to be classed as "narrowband". The ODTR talks about Chorus's 512K narrowband licence, for example. The term "broad", of course, is relative. How long is a piece of string?

The only absolute definition I have found on the web has to do with the ability of a line to carry multiple different signals e.g video and data. This definition does not seem to be used much these days. It seems a bit old fashioned.

Leverz · 12-06-2001 12:27am

Originally posted by chernobyl:
it does actually.
Broadband is classified by "an always on connection" and ISDN falls under this catagory as it only take about 2 seconds to connect via ISDN.

Errr...... I think not, its narrowband, as a matter of fact, check up. I will await the apology ;P
There is B-ISDN, which is Broadband ISDN, but this is not what you are supplied to your home, but what large companies receive as a leased line.

Snaga · 12-06-2001 12:55am

For those interested, Broadband ISDN starts at 2 megabits per second.

Bard · 12-06-2001 5:56pm

Originally posted by chernobyl:
it does actually.
Broadband is classified by "an always on connection" and ISDN falls under this catagory as it only take about 2 seconds to connect via ISDN.

Would the fact that you need to connect at all not mean that it's not "always on"?

Bard

I walk through walls/ I float down the Liffey/ I'm not here/ This isn't happening

Leverz · 12-06-2001 6:30pm

You are correct Bard, you still have to login to join the network, where as with xDSL/Cable, you are always a part of the network (some ISPs set up "dialup settings" to try and reduce the bandwidth pressures)

NORTH1 · 12-06-2001 7:02pm

We are getting away from the point here with our what the deffination is.....arguement.

Can anyone confirm are we getting DSL in Dublin to the Household consumer or is this just more Bull.

Brian.

Leverz · 12-06-2001 7:04pm

You are the one that said no. That it was for the business sector only.

-ADREN- · 12-06-2001 7:46pm

Yeah lads but think of it.. If DSL does come out and it is very pricey its still going to cause a slide right? I mean that means eircom might lower there ISND rate or even let it be free on weekends as for NTL or other Cable Internet companies in Irelend, when they hear of the release of DSL they will want to counter market.. and Lower there price or push cable in a big way .. any ways just an Optimistic.. view on things.

sry.. But the story with ADSL at the moment is?

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