Will a new government actually implement insurance reforms

Mailman

Please go to
www.123.ie and www.directline.com

Get a quote for a 25 year old male with 0 years experience but a full licence on a '94 1 litre Micra worth £1000.
Note the difference in price.
For the UK I'd suggest using the post code MK8 0AB and address 6 vincent avenue. Milton Keynes isn't the safest or most dangerous place in the UK to drive.

Once you have digested the disparity in quotes for the same individual continue your argument.

When I did it. I got a quote of £450 STG and €10 short of €3000.

If DaveIRL still wants to maintain that there isn't something wrong with the Irish Insurance Industry and associated Industries then be my guest.

daveirl

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Mailman

They won't operate here because of the way the insurance and associated industies are organised.
This is an invisible barrier to entry and the insurance industry are happy to keep it this way even if it means that they make less profit and premiums are higher than they would be otherwise.

The last thing Hibernian/AXA want is DirectLine to start insuring Irish drivers over the web from a server located in the UK - They'd be wiped out over night.

Now I'll thank you very much not to dismiss comparitive quotes from the UK because that is the only thing that is going to keep this thread grounded in reality and is the reason why the MIAB report should be implemented in full ASAP.

A 25 year old is not a 'Young' driver, a teenager is a young driver.
The MIAB report bears this out. It's the teens who are the significantly higher risk. They're the ones insurers are loosing money on. The report shows the insurance companies are making profits, all be it small profits on practically every other group.

daveirl

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Mailman

Don't dare dismiss comparitive quotes between the UK and Ireland.
If our insurance industry was operating properly then we would be given similar sort quotes.
Nobody is campaigning to make Insurance companies lose money.
People are campaigning to have the insurance industry reformed.
There are many suggestions in the MIAB report.
Some deal with improving road safety, some deal with reforming the legal system and some deal with introducing competition, lowering costs and bringing transparency to the motor insurance industry. All are needed. What isn't needed is someone gloating and saying nothing can be done.
Your attitude is extremely unhelpful and you are playing into the hands of the vested interests, that is, if you aren't a vested interest.

For those that are interested the recommendations from the MIAB report can be found at http://www.entemp.ie/cr/miab.pdf
You'll find there a list of suggestions there for reform of the motor insurance industry.

daveirl

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Mailman

The markets are comparable.

In both countries people are legally obligied to insure their cars and the nature of the cover provided is identical.

What isn't comparable is the cost structure and degree of competition.

With regard to legal costs I'll direct you to section C150 of the MIAB report which states:
'Unlike the civil codes operating elsewhere in Europe, Ireland is a common law jurisdiction like England so comparisons with that country ARE MORE VALID. Again the McAuley report provides useful independent research on some differences between these two jurisdictions in levels of costs for both plaintiffs and defendants'

This section and the ones which follow it deal specifically with legal costs, not awards to plaintiffs.

As you are listing recommendations I'll assume you have access to the full report and don't wan't to challenge any of the findings from C149 through to C164 which deal with litigation costs comparisons to other jurisdictions.
These sections show that cases in Ireland take longer and are more expensive to settle than in the UK.

Your opinion that our high insurance costs are due to a compo culture are dealt with in sections C306, C314 and C338.
If you read through these sections it will become obvious to you that the compensation culture will only persist as long as the costs associated with going to court are so high. Most Solicitors will take on cases because they are sure they can settle before a judge makes a ruling. Insurance companies settle because the potential costs of fees overshadow the award to the claimant. If legal costs were lower insurance companies would pursue more suspect cases through the courts and fraudulent claims would mostly disappear.

Section C360 through C365 carries the heading
'Do High Claim Costs suit insurers?' - the conclusion they drew was - probably.

You acknowledge that there are recommendations in the MIAB report which specifically focus on and are applicable to the Insurance industry yet you say the problem lies elsewhere.
The MIAB report says the problem lies in the Motor Insurance industry and elsewhere. As the MIAB report was four years in the making I'll believe them rather than you.

Once again, no one is asking Insurance companies to make a loss we are asking them to operate more efficently and reduce their administrative costs so that they can provide their product at a lower price. The recommendations with regard to motor insurance companies in the MIAB report will help to lower premiums.

bonkey

Originally posted by Mailman
Once again, no one is asking Insurance companies to make a loss we are asking them to operate more efficently and reduce their administrative costs so that they can provide their product at a lower price. The recommendations with regard to motor insurance companies in the MIAB report will help to lower premiums.

The reason that there are so many administrative costs are not entirely the fault of the motor industries. A large part of the recommendations revolve around making the legal system leaner and simpler, in order to facilitate faster resolutions with far lower costs. There are also, IIRC, points about limiting the amounts paid in payouts.

You can read the document many ways. However, the tone I get most from it is that the it is saying that the governnent need to get their act together in this area, paving the way for serious improvements in the system, leading to reduced insurance costs. Whilst I would not claim that the insurance companies are in top efficient form, I would say that they are by no means the largest culprits in this mess.

jc

Mailman

In terms of page depth the MIAB report devotes 135 pages to claim costs, incl. legal fees, 166 to the Insurance Market and 74 to Accidents.
There has to be something wrong with the insurance market if the report spends 166 discussing it.

daveirl

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Mailman

Rather than going back over points already covered where you just won't agree with me I'll move on to competition.

Sections M61 through M90 of the MIAB report deal with competition in the market and certain risk areas of the market.
The report comments on the reduced competition in the Irish Motor Insurance market over the last 4-5 years and the MIAB report has made a number of recommendations to ensure that there is competition in the market and open it to competition from abroad(M65).
Elsewhere it notes that management expenses within some of these newly merged companies has decreased. At the same time premiums have continued to increase year on year.

From reading the report I found it strange to see that FBD which has one of the highest management expense percentages was routinely giving some of the lowest quotes in the surveys that were carried on year after year.

daveirl

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Mailman

As long as the likes of M&S, Dunnes Stores, Penny's and St V de P supply cheap\free clothing then nobody is going to complain about the price of clothing.

It's interesting to see that the government have specifically mentioned in their program for government that they intend to implement the MIAB report in full "urgently".
This is good because it makes it more than just an election promise.

l3rian

they will drop it, but not by much, it will be a token reduction, so bertie can add it to one of his speechs, it will rise again soon after too