No Limits - Make a complaint

Trojan · 02-05-2001 3:39am

Hey! Someone who makes sense, on boards.ie! How the hell did (s)he get past the defenses?

logic1 · 02-05-2001 10:47am

Ok your right in some ways but yesterday I contacted my Dads solicitors (yes he needs several

) and they're case was that yes at any time Esat can cut you off from the service as long as they're not discriminating in any way against a specific group of users. E.G. If the letter said "On the 30th of May you are being disconnected from the service as we have a right to do according to our terms of service." End of letter. But because they said "You are being cut off for excessive usage" they are immediately discriminating against a certain portion of their customer base even if it is these people that are causing them to make a loss they cannot state that in the letter.
And it was recommended that we contact the ombudsman immediately.

.logic.

logic1 · 02-05-2001 11:01am

Just a foot note to your comments:

Am I making sense here? How did people get so naive and spoiled? Internet access is a service that companies are free to provide at what ever price they want. 

Not true. The price isn't regulated by the ISPs and their not free to chgarge whatever they want. The ODTR and various customer rights organisations have a say in what is a fair price and ISPs can regulate depending on the standards set down. If they charge hugely over this price they're not going to get sanctioned to start trading by the fair trade commitee.

The customer is free to choose between the various offerings. When you signed up for the service you agreed to Esat's right to terminate the service for any reason.

Again not exactly true. The agreement stated they have a right to change the service for commercial or technical reasons and they can disconnect you if given 30 days notice. This doesn't mean they can disconnect for any reason as discrimination would come into play as it has done. For example they can't say "I don't like you. You smell so we're disconnecting you". However they can at any time withdraw the service from you if you are given 30 days notice. You will see that this isn't cutting you of at any time for any reason they choose.

Protesting, simply because you are not getting what you want, is childish, unless you can establish that you have a right to that something. You have no more a right to cheap Internet services than you have to cheap flights to America (substitute something else you might want here).

I'm afraid I also have a problem with this statement. I don't see any body protesting because we're not getting what we want. People are generally disgruntled because of the state of the Telecoms and Internet market in Ireland and this is basically the straw that broke the camels back. We were given a "nolimits" service and it remains to this day a nolimits service as I established with the marketing director yesterday as they have never released a change in policy to the general public. If they had brought in the 3 hour cut off that would be considered a change in policy and hence an altered service agreement but they did not enforce this 3 hour cut off hence the service remained nolimits.
Then this service was withdrawn from us stating that we had overused it. This in itself is ludicrous and unless we do stand up for ourselves in some form that over priced (and yes it is overpriced) internet access will stay the norm.
I believe it is only because of the amount of complaints lodged against eircom that Ethain Doyle introduced two new number, one exclusively for flat rate access and on the 30th of last month set a £10:99 per month charge rate on this number for ISP usage. This I solely believe is due to people like us standing up for ourselves and demanding Ireland move into the new millenium and draw an end to huge monopolies and money making engines and we can have some real competition and fair pricing structures as most of the rest of europe have. I've worked in the Internet and namely ISP business with the past 2 years and so I would consider myself extremly familiar with europes pricing structure and schemes and I can tell you Ireland is one of the worst at the moment sow hen you give out to people and call them whingers and babies please take a minute to realise what your saying and think about what these people you fob off as moaners are trying to dow ith the telecommunications market in Ireland. I find it empowering that so many young people do want to stand up and make a point and be heard (also some old people like dev and regi.. yeah regius ancient...

)

So in finishing I would like to ruin my whole polite argument by saying "Get a ****ing clue."

.logic. (edited cause I ****ed up my tags.. grr)

[This message has been edited by logic1 (edited 02-05-2001).]

Skeptic1 · 02-05-2001 4:12pm

Originally posted by logic1:
Just a foot note to your comments:
Not true. The price isn't regulated by the ISPs and their not free to chgarge whatever they want. The ODTR and various customer rights organisations have a say in what is a fair price and ISPs can regulate depending on the standards set down. If they charge hugely over this price they're not going to get sanctioned to start trading by the fair trade commitee.

I did not know that ISPs were regulated by the ODTR and I stand corrected on that. However, if the ODTR state exactly what price ISPs can offer their services at, you are not going to find may ISPs competing for your custom.

Again not exactly true. The agreement stated they have a right to change the service for commercial or technical reasons and they can disconnect you if given 30 days notice. This doesn't mean they can disconnect for any reason as discrimination would come into play as it has done. For example they can't say "I don't like you. You smell so we're disconnecting you". However they can at any time withdraw the service from you if you are given 30 days notice. You will see that this isn't cutting you of at any time for any reason they choose.

OK, so you would have been happy if they changed the reason for the termination? Maybe we can get them to change the text of the letter. Like I said, I don't agree with the way they went about terminating the service. Would you be happy if they simply stopped the service for everyone?

I'm afraid I also have a problem with this statement. I don't see any body protesting because we're not getting what we want.

Really?

People are generally disgruntled because of the state of the Telecoms and Internet market in Ireland and this is basically the straw that broke the camels back.

I have no problem with this. It does not go against my original point.

We were given a "nolimits" service and it remains to this day a nolimits service as I established with the marketing director yesterday as they have never released a change in policy to the general public. If they had brought in the 3 hour cut off that would be considered a change in policy and hence an altered service agreement but they did not enforce this 3 hour cut off hence the service remained nolimits.
Then this service was withdrawn from us stating that we had overused it. This in itself is ludicrous and unless we do stand up for ourselves in some form that over priced (and yes it is overpriced) internet access will stay the norm.

I agree that the way they terminated the service was wrong. See my earlier post.

I believe it is only because of the amount of complaints lodged against eircom that Ethain Doyle introduced two new number, one exclusively for flat rate access and on the 30th of last month set a £10:99 per month charge rate on this number for ISP usage. This I solely believe is due to people like us standing up for ourselves and demanding Ireland move into the new millenium and draw an end to huge monopolies and money making engines and we can have some real competition and fair pricing structures as most of the rest of europe have. I've worked in the Internet and namely ISP business with the past 2 years and so I would consider myself extremly familiar with europes pricing structure and schemes and I can tell you Ireland is one of the worst at the moment sow hen you give out to people and call them whingers and babies please take a minute to realise what your saying and think about what these people you fob off as moaners are trying to dow ith the telecommunications market in Ireland.

The people I am fobbing off as moaners are those that are attacking Esat without examining the underlying telecommunications situation. Whingers and babies, these are your words for them, however.

If Esat are to be blamed for the telecommunications mess in this country, then so are Clubie, Utvinternet etc. Maybe they should all be kicked out and then we would get some decent service

I find it empowering that so many young people do want to stand up and make a point and be heard (also some old people like dev and regi.. yeah regius ancient... )

I have no problem with the above. Eircom's network was built up over generations at the taxpayers expense. They are now hogging it and providing obsolete services over it at expensive rates. Eircom are a monopoly and should be regulated. My problem is people complaining about one particular company (not a monopoly). I have no connection with Esat; I'm not connected with them in any way, not even as a customer. But it is clear to me that they are not responsible for the state of Irish telecommunications and Internet access.

Even protesting against Eircom will do little good. They already know they provide an inadaquate service but continue to do so because they have a stanglehold over the local loop infrastructure.

I think people should be protesting against the Governemt and their quango, the ODTR.

[This message has been edited by Skeptic1 (edited 02-05-2001).]

Megatron · 02-05-2001 5:01pm

well , a mate of mine got this letter the same as me, and he's gone straight to a lawer, i had to laugh when i saw that " we are not living to the spirt of the agreement "

that made me laugh , cus my mind couldn't think of enough swear words !!!!
anyway i'll tell ya all what the out come witht he lawer type person is and if there can be anything that can be done.

Later Skaters

No !!!!! I will crush you with my Bare hands

Bard · 02-05-2001 5:33pm

Originally posted by The Professor:

No, I reckon they want to drop the product completely or limit it to those, that use the service so rarely that they'd be better on a different scheme.

That's pretty much exactly what the Esat "representative" told me down the phone. (Bloody 'ell!)

I didn't get the letter, btw... I'm not a heavy home user of the 'net as I generally have enough of it by the time I get out of the office.

Originally posted by cr8or:

lads look at this
http://www.boards.ie/members/cr8or/
all they info yeas will need

... and at that page you give out the guys mobile phone number... are you sure that's a good idea? I believe Devore has already objected to this elsewhere on the boards...

Bard

"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

bugler · 02-05-2001 5:58pm

I have got the letter now aswell.
I have been in college since september,away from monday to friday every week.At the weekends I would use it fairly heavily,probably 20 hours total. I have had about 3 overnight d/l's in the last few months.My 20 hours (roughly) that I spend online at weekends translates to an average of less than 3 hours a day,I don't need to tell you geniuses that

.

This is supposed to constitute "over-use" of an unmetered off-peak deal?

If this amount of usage puts me in the top 10%(my c0ck it does) then i think its fair to say that a very large pecentage of users are wasting their time with Esat,as they must use it so little they'd be better off with a different ISP charging them by the minute,and it wouldn't be sub-standard either.

Cr8or · 02-05-2001 6:09pm

If some 1 asks me 2 remove it ie a bord admin ect it will be down in a flash :P

but if no one says anything?

Bard · 02-05-2001 6:29pm

Originally posted by Cr8or:
If some 1 asks me 2 remove it ie a bord admin ect it will be down in a flash :P

but if no one says anything?

Well the point was that Devore already objected to someone else who posted up that self same mobile number on this public forum.

Personally, I'd object on the grounds that it could be at least a part of a cause for the guy getting unwarranted nasty calls and/or text messages.

Bard

"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

bugler · 02-05-2001 6:40pm

Maybe with the money Esat will be saving by cutting off their "overusers" he might be able to afford a new number.

Renton · 02-05-2001 6:50pm

I say we get as many people as possible, Ringing them and complaining, repeadidly, if we ring them hundreds and hundreds of times,

and keep asking to talk to their manager till u get the head boy, and complain to him

If we get LOADS of ppl doing this, it will **** them off

Also if possible, get the mobile number of a high executive in ESAT, then put their number in the buy and sell,

8 bedroom house, Dalkey Area, £50,000

(ha ha)

RentZ

Da_cOmRaDe_MiKe · 06-05-2001 12:49am

ya them *****es at esat!!!!!!
**** sake no one ****tted me more than them this year!!!
o btw i use eircom and got isdn ye should try it and they bring a new thing out like esat! so hurry up and sign for it so i wont have to pay as muuch!

thnx

- Da_cOmRaDe_MiKe

Man causes all problems. No man, no problems. - Stalin

gnardlz · 04-06-2001 1:02pm

Is anyone else still logged in on their no-limits account?
Are they just going to send a whopping bill next month?

It's a dirty war!

chernobyl · 04-06-2001 1:09pm

you wont get kicked unitl the 8th/16th/24th.
depending on when you get billed.

Britany Spears Looking incredible

takeesattocourt · 21-06-2001 4:22pm

Hi everybody!!
I hope people are still checking up on this topic.I have been searching the internet for other people that have had promblems with no limits.
I was on tv3 if any of you saw that.I have been in contact with consumer affairs who are dragging their feet on the issue,they are saying it is an issue for the director of telecommunications who in turn say it is a consumer affairs issue.What crap,burecrats gone mad,the ombundsman will tell you all they can do is to get these deparpments to actually listen to you and respond not much else.
There are laws in place that cover false and misleading statements and false advertising,I would imagine this falls under tose categories,but the office of consumer affairs is not doing anything as far as I can see,lets put pressure on them,earn their money!
Also the director of telecommunications office doesn't seem to want to do anything about it either,equally lets keep puting pressure on them.
I agree with other people that say we have been discriminated against,imagine an all you can eat dinner advertised for £20,oh but fat people are not allowed!!
Lets stop acting like sheep and take esat to court only by speaking up will anything ever change in this country!!
Forget the excuses and arguments amongst yourselves it is a buisness transaction,esat gladly took your our money,whether they made money out of the service or not doesn't matter,they make millions anyway,no one in esat is going to starve because no limits didn't work out the way they wanted it to,but I bet a lot of you like me are spending extra money now!!
It's buisness to them,thats all,they tried with the letter to put the guilt trip on people bulls**t,does anyone actually think they care about you or I?
Almost every other country has block access,if esat can't make money from it then tough,don't offer it in the first place.
I am definetly not letting go of this issue,I am intent on getting them into court on the discrimination issue and I would love to hear from others by email martinhayes1@ireland.com nor do i have any intention of leaving the burecrats get away with doing nothing!
If anyone else is interested in getting involved please contact me,this country needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world and companies like esat made accountable.
Remember : you or I would be fined very fast for having no car tax or something stupid like that!
Stop felling sorry for them its just buisness.
regards
Martin Hayes

No Limits - Make a complaint

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