*Hardware-Based* Phone Home Apps

Gladiator

Oh No! *Hardware-Based* Phone Home Apps!
It's true: Phoenix, the BIOS people (they make the Phoenix and Award BIOSes), recently launched PhoenixNet, which will work with an advertising-based phone-home app built right into the hardware of your PC. Although the announcement is couched in careful terms, the gist is clear. "...system builders and resellers... can use PhoenixNet's services to distribute... products and services to millions of users."

Millions of captive users, that is. According to the PhoenixNet site:

The PhoenixNet Internet Launch System (ILS) is a patent-pending technology built into the firmware of your PC. PhoenixNet's technology resides safely within ROM (Read Only Memory). PhoenixNet is activated automatically at the initial launch of your new PC....

Once running, the PhoenixNet software will use your Internet connection to force-feed you downloads, advertising, "sites to see," and support services. The PhoenixNet utility apparently integrates with Windows; it's controlled--- if that's the word--- via a system tray applet. However, because at least some of this code is operating at the firmware/BIOS level, it's possible for this code to run "below the radar" of the OS or of local desktop firewalls. It could be difficult to know just what this code was doing, or when it's doing it.

Why is Phoenix doing this? The PhoenixNet site ( http://home.phoenixnet.com/about/index.html ) spins it one way:

New and experienced users alike face some tough hurdles when trying to get running on a new computer. From connecting to the Internet to learning about and managing their PC. How do they get started? ... Now, thanks to PhoenixNet, the solution is only a mouse click away. Save time and effort by using PhoenixNet built into the PC.... PhoenixNet services can be individually customized to meet the needs of any user. This service continues over the life of the PC. And it's free.

But despite this happytalk explanation, to me this doesn't look like an impartial third-party advisor to end users, but rather an advertising vehicle. The PhoenixNet site says, "... we select the best providers of these products and enter into partnerships with them in order to provide these tools directly through our network," To me, this sounds like: "Vendors pay us, or give us a cut of their action, to get their stuff listed on PhoenixNet."

PhoenixNet may be hard to avoid: A number of motherboard makers have already agreed to start using PhoenixNet: They include AOpen, Chaintech, ECS, EpoX, Giga-Byte, Jetway, Legend-QDI, MSI, Soltek and Zida.

For biased info on this, see the PhoenixNet FAQ at http://home.phoenixnet.com/about/index.html#fre ; for third-party, independent views, see Steve Gibson's GRC newsgroup on 'spyware:" Point your usenet/newsgroup reader at news.grc.com, and join the grc.spyware discussion.


their going to place it in the rom so theres absolutly no way to change it, and it will go past all software based firewalls

yankinlk

sounds dodgy enuff. the internet is great tho, in 12 hours someone will have a flash to beat it. avid pc builders will never stand for it, so it will have to be removed. can imagine what it might do to your fps and/or ping...

Xenophobic

Jesus will they never leave us alone?

Send the info to www.thereg.co.uk , they're excellent at reporting this kind of stuff.

P.S. TSADBOT is an advert server bot?

FGS Can we not do these companies for wasting computer time / internet time for piggybacking virus like on our machines, same way the US government tried to press charges against hackers?

Xenophobic

Gladiator

you see thats the whole point of them putting it on the rom, cant flash it,
it will be extremely hard to crack this.
of course somebody will come up with away, like disabling it for windows or something but it wont be quick,
at least asus is ok

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 21-06-2001).]

MiCr0

remove the chip

Kix

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The PhoenixNet utility apparently integrates with Windows; it's controlled--- if that's the word--- via a system tray applet. However, because at least some of this code is operating at the firmware/BIOS level, it's possible for this code to run "below the radar" of the OS or of local desktop firewalls. It could be difficult to know just what this code was doing, or when it's doing it.</font>

Hummm... I don't think that I quite believe that it can "fly under the radar"; according to the rest of the article, it uses Windows TCP/IP stack for connectivity.

There was a similar hammer-headed idea a few years ago about puttin' ads in the BIOS. Of course, when it came to fruit, it was only the large OEMs which used it for their own logos - and those were disablable. I wouldn't panic about this too much. If even one manufacturer smells an advantage to sales by omitting it or making it optional, they will.

Market rules

Gladiator

replace it with what, there the biggest bios providers after they took over award.
and you have to admit that abite above most the average user.

hacking a bios may be difficult or impossible but I know I read somewhere where people use hex editors to edit the registers after bootup to enable or defeat certain bios features. Although this is a VERY hairy affair and could fry a thing or two in the box! Definitely not for average user.

So I guess the largest bios company (all my past PCs have been award) must be thinking that even if people do find a way around it, there won't be many. And those who actually do it are not worth the advertisers' time cuz they don't really go shopping that much with all their time spent in front of that beige box! LOL!

Gerry

You can use wpcredit, available from www.h-oda.com , to change bios registers. Also it is possible edit the bios configuration to enable or disable specific features using programs like modbin. This has been done recently to disable acpi on certain motherboards such as the abit kt7. Slightly more diffcult is disassembly of the bios, allowing you to code in new features.

Anyway, I'm quite confident that if this phoenixnet ever takes off, as people have said already there will be a work around available quickly on the net. It will only be the people who don't know about it who will suffer.

For example, someone will hook one of these phoenixnet machines up to a decent firewall, and see what its doing for a start.

Gladiator

well it should be able to get pass a hardware firewall, what ever about software.

but since this hasnt happened yet lets not say it cant do anything

ConUladh

The source of the article you've copied is

http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2001/2001-06-07.htm#3

Great newsletter IMHO

Read this:

http://www.thecubicle.com/mix_mingle/sockets/archive/feb/phoenix.htm

Particularly The PhoenixNet ROM-based software is integrated into the motherboard flash memory

So I don't see why you can't flash it, I don't know too much about BIOS flashing so I'll leave it that

Gladiator

it all depends on were they write the code in the bios

ConUladh

Here's a board incorporating it (October 2000)

http://www.lostcircuits.com/motherboard/iwill_kv200/

Check out the 'features including spam' section

Xenophobic

Looks like El Reg has gotten involved.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/19992.html

Xeno

Kix

I've read all the posts on the board referenced in La Reg's article, and this is what I've found:

1. If you don't install the drivers which come on the motherboard CD the hidden extras, i.e. the PhoenixNet software, doesn't get installed. The BIOS portion can't do anything on it's own. You can get more up-to-date drivers on the manufacturer's web-sites anyhow.

2. This PhoenixNet software is Windows 98 only.

3. Beware, if you install Windows 98 on a machine with one of these BIOSes, install the drivers (+ PhoenixNet software) from the CD and don't install WSH (which I don't because it's a security risk) then the PheonixNet software crashes your system on boot. One to avoid if possible.

4. Apparently it's appearing on quite a few new boards.

5. Of course, you can always disable it before you install your OS. Or don't plug in your modem till you've got rid of it...

The power is yours!

[This message has been edited by Kix (edited 27-06-2001).]

Stonemason

I think we are missing the point.Its like dell or gateway locking certain parts of your bios because they feel we are to stupid to be allowed to have total control over your own system.What im driving at is when you buy a pc they dont tell you there are strings attached.can you imagine going into a car sales room and the guy sells you a car but neglects to tell you that the radio is stuck on channel 5 because we have a deal with some company.As if it wasnt bad enough we have to endure junk mail (which changes its address every two mins to bypass you mail rules why if not to deliberatly spam you?)we now have to take a system with the advertising ****e built in.Sorry im sick to death with this constant unwanted and unwaranted big busines forceing this electronic junk on us all the time.At least with the telly you can get up and make a cuppa or something when your working on your pc the last thing you want is popups telling you about the latest greatest panty liner.I know this is abit extreme but how long before it becomes a reality.


Stone