darkmaster banned from the forsale and wated boards...

Keeks

for trying to sell illegal services.





(Just to let the admins know, i'm currently doning up a proper chareter for the boards at the moment after the recent spate of sh*t myself and blade had to contend with.)

Pablo

how about just a warning ?

maybe discression would be something that should be taken into consideration. and why put it on the admin board ? so that everyone sees it ??

gandalf

Just out of curiosity what kind of illegal services ?

Gandalf.

Rabies

i think it was chipping PS2's

Saruman

I dont see Buy and sell preventing advertisers taking out banner ads advertising the same thing...

SheroN

I don't think it's actually illegal?.....i mean...if you buy the game...you're allowed back it up (cd-r) and be allowed play it?....or something..or maybe im full of ****...

amp

Plyd. Zero tolerance. Criminals OUT!

Quigs Snr

Keeks, I'm not defending the guy but I do know this:

You are factually incorrect. Chipping a PS2 is not illegal. That is a proven legal fact, if it were Sony would be putting these sites that openly sell chips out of business. It does invalidate your warranty but it can be deemed in no way illegal. If you have a moral complaint against it or the owners of the board decide it's against policy, then thats fine, please state so, but claiming it's illegal will not wash with some of the more savvy users and they'll get their knickers in a twist groaning about censorship and calling you a facist.

Playing backed up games on your PS2 is also not illegal if you own the original. I suppose it's similar to the way the emulator scene works whereby it's not illegal to own an emulator. It's also not illegal to own a ROM if you own the original software already.

Personally though, I wouldn't let anyone I never met before near the inside of my PS2 with a soldering iron, and no comeback if they screw up. You'd want to be off yer head.

The_Bullman

is it illegal to chip playstations but not mobile phones? This used to be advertised a lot on the forsale board

Quigs Snr

I would hasten to add that without making any reference to the accused's character (often 'chippers' are just some lad who's figured out how to do it and wants to make a couple of quid). I have been to markets where people offer to chip machines and sell you backups/pirated games (lets call a spade a spade here), and these people are almost invariably a lower class of humanity, scumbags if you will. A generalisation but a fair one. Plenty of people chip machines etc... people who make a living out of chipping and pirating are generally not usually very savoury characters.

gandalf

Err keeks thats a bit strong imho. What happens if someone comes on offering to chip DVD Players will they meet the same fate. I don't believe chipping a PS2 is illegal, Sony would like you to think that it is and you will throw away your warranty in getting it chipped.

Jesus from the wording of the original thread I was expecting something like "adult" services

Gandalf.

Shinji

100% official legal line on this: Chipping PS2s is not illegal.


Sony has succeeded in having the original designers and creators of the Messiah and Neo mod-chips shut down under UK copyright law, however European, Irish and International copyright law doesn't carry the same clause which got them shut down under UK law.

(FYI, this clause is one prohibiting the manufacture and sale of devices specifically designed to circumvent copyright protection - similar to some of the controversial parts of the DCMA.)

The main issue with people who chip PS2s is that most of them are into the pirate software business as well, which of course IS illegal.

Xterminator

So is the guy banned or what?

It would appear the service he offered was legit (and very simialr the the unlock your sim ads which i have seen many times), .. and apart from a few sweeping generalisations, about piracy, as long as such services are not advertised here,i cant see he is doing anything wrong?

X

Keeks

Still banned...as far ar i'm know the PS2 chips and all conerned are copyrighted. That includes chipping them. I think Sony made sure of that this time round. I'm sure shinji will tell me difereently if i'm wrong.


Anyway if he want to advertise sevircse for sale take it to the Work board. He wasn't selling anything.

And if anyone can prove that it wans't illegal, then he can come back with no issues. I have no problems with that. Until them they re banned.

astrofool

you can chip whatever you like and it's grand, lose your warranty but thats it.

Shinji has already told you differently.

Sure the pc you're using to write your posts wouldn't hve existed without people reverse engineering things.

bkehoe

Chipping the ps2 is not illegal.

sceptre

With regard to the Messiah chip, Sony brought the action under section 296 of the UK Copyright Designs and Patent Act (1988). Basically that means that it's an offence to make, sell, import, hire, advertise for sale any device or means specifically designed or adapted to circumvent a form of copy protection employed in relation to particular copyright works or to publish information intended to enable or assist others to circumvent such copy protection features.

Last I heard, Ireland wasn't part of the UK.

The EU Copyright Directive will implement legislation of this type by the end of 2002. This is basically the EU version of the DMCA (though in some circumstances it goes even further - plus in the EU the freedom of speech challenge won't be coming up as it will in the US)

Lex_Diamonds

I respectfully request that "darkmaster" have his account re-instated for the reasons given above.

One little observation though. He is selling the service of chipping PS2 consoles yet, at the same time, he posted in the wanted forum looking for a PS2....

Keeks

Originally posted by Shinji
The main issue with people who chip PS2s is that most of them are into the pirate software business as well, which of course IS illegal.

The reason for being banned is

1. He is offering a serive, and that to me is Commercail selling, and anyone who read Devs announment on the board will know thats banned.

2. the only ppl the advert is directed at, are those interested in pirate warez, also illegal on the boards.

PPC

Originally posted by Keeks
2. the only ppl the advert is directed at, are those interested in pirate warez, also illegal on the boards.

You can also play imports and alot of people do

Pablo

you choice of words seem to be too strong, illegal in the sence of the rules of the forum , but not illegal in the world grand master plan of things .

Originally posted by Keeks
for trying to sell illegal services.

Originally posted by Keeks


The reason for being banned is

1. He is offering a service, and that to me is Commercail selling, and anyone who read Devs announment on the board will know thats banned.

still thought a warning would have been more apt.

Celt

Originally posted by Keeks


2. the only ppl the advert is directed at, are those interested in pirate warez, also illegal on the boards.

I got my ps2 chipped to play FFX import.
Thats it.

Keeks

No one said it was a permaent ban. I'me still waint for the person to reply to this thread to explain themselves. This is the warning. Otherwise I would have asked the admins for a 12 click and not posted anything here.

astrofool

try a pm or email, he probably doesn't check this board at all.

Alot of people buy in alot of messiah chips (you get discounts on large quantities), and then offer to sell them and install them to people, usually taking on the price of the ps2 if they do a botch job of it. Someone selling messiah chips without installing them won't sell very much. Product + Service combined really, for sale board is the only place to announce it really, hence he shouldn't have been banned. And you should be apologising to him for clearly jumping the gun.

DeVore

Keeks is harsh but fair enough.
The one thing that has tipped me towards banning him is that since he arrived, I've noticed a number of things that made me raise an eyebrow. And I hate looking like Roger Moore, there've been a few incidents that, while nothing totally out of line I've seriously thought about twatting him one.
Considering I had to assist him to get signed up and he's one of the regulars mates I didnt think he's bring this much trouble.

1. Chipping ps2s may not be illegal, but I dont want it here.

2. Pay money to get service = for profit service = commercial selling = not on.

Now, if it was say Shinji saying "hey lads I can chip you're stuff for you, just pay me the costs etc and enough for a pint" then it would be fine. Hypocritical? No, Shinji puts time and effort in here, hence we'd let it slide. Being hypocritical means breaking *your own rules* and those are mine. I care not about yours

Replace "Shinji" with any other mod or regular/helpful person round these parts.


DeV.

Keeks

I don't see how it was harsh...i just banned him from those boards until i got a vaild explanation. Or better still, to highlight the fact that this kind of stuff isn't allowed. A kinda extreme way to get the message across i know, but if it stops consistant muppetry, then i consider it worth it.

Shinji

Now, if it was say Shinji saying "hey lads I can chip you're stuff for you, just pay me the costs etc and enough for a pint" then it would be fine. Hypocritical? No, Shinji puts time and effort in here, hence we'd let it slide. Being hypocritical means breaking *your own rules* and those are mine. I care not about yours

Heh, cheers, but my eyesight is bloody bad enough without spending any more time than I strictly have to peering at microsoldering gear. 76 wires onto a PCB on a 3 times smaller scale than a PC motherboard for a PS2 messiah... Never, ever again. Ever.


Fair enough on the commercial service aspect of it, that's clearly against the charter of the board. I was just pointing out earlier that it's incorrect to say that it's an illegal activity... In fact, even in the UK it's legal to install the chips, it's just illegal to sell them. Copyright law is weird....

darkmaster

PS2 chipping is not illegal,

A lot of people want this service, and as its not "commercially available" in Ireland I can provide this service if people want it.

A chip will allow you to play backup games and import games, yes it voids your warranty, thats it. Its not illegal.

Live with it dude.

darkmaster

So am I banned or what?

Makaveli

Wow only took you 3 months to reply to the thread.

sceptre

Seeing as this thread is dragged up from the almost dead, here's a suggestion (it's only a suggestion - I'm not trying to tread on anyone's toes):

Unban the guy if he's still banned

Tell him whether he can advertise the chipping or not.

Based on the posts of deVore and Keeks I suspect that'll be a "not" but tell the guy (seeing as he's posted now)

If it's a "not", ban him if he does it again. If he doesn't it's forgotten.

IF it's a "not"under the "commercial selling" rules, it;s covered in the charter. The position on chipping console services/DVD players/whatever may need to be included in the charter, as it's not covered under what's listed there at the moment.

DeVore

sceptre has the right idea and chipping is not something I want to encourage on the boards, illegal or not.

DeV.

spongebob

seeing as the boards mods are hardly the fascistii I would be inclined to say that what the mod sez goes and thats that.

if it were a free for all there would be no mod in any forum.

different mods may take narrower or broader views according to their particular topic matter and in this case the mods felt they had to do something....so fine.

I noted that yer man darkmaster has been an assidous and valuable member of the fora he was not banned from ...over the past 3 months , looking at his posting record and that.

M