Some more programing career quetions...

TARE

I've recently finished my first year of a computer science degree, I read the "Any professional game programmers here?" tread, which had alot of helpfull tips. I just have afew more questions. I'm not necessarily focused on game programing/developement although it dose sound interesting, but, Any general software programers here ?

- Where do you work and what sort of stuff do they do ?

- How much experience did you have when you applied for the job; What langueges did you know? Where/how did you learn them? how long had you been prgraming? What programs had you created? that sort of thing...

- What do you find are the hardest part of your job is ?


General programing questions:

I'm currently learning Java, so far i've only used it to create DOS text based programs, here's the program I had to do for my Individual project this year.

Project.java

I presume "proper" java prgrams are more complacated then this, how big is the step between my Stock control system and say a prgram like Winamp or any other program like that or is it just a matter of adding a GUI ?

I enjoy making programs and I'd like to learn some new stuff, I'll have afair bit of free time over the summer so any sujestions of what I could learn or program you think I could have a go at making? I would'nt mind doing something with a GUI, any sujestions ?

"The industry is entirely focused on C and C++; what little Java work there is is mobile phone focused and that's pretty underfunded and frail right now. " ( Shinji )

- Surely java used for more then moblie phone stuff ?

Cheers,
BoB

Hecate

I'm between diploma and degree at the moment so I can't really answer your questions about employment

But as for the general programming ones ....

Java programs that use GUIs could be only a few lines long since they use encapsulated objects and classes written by you, or someone else to do specific tasks, for example, this program displays a rainfall graph, it's all one file but could be split out across several classfiles and into packages. If the project gets very large, testing and debugging are simplified, thats where OO languages like Java come into their own.

"The industry is entirely focused on C and C++; what little Java work there is is mobile phone focused and that's pretty underfunded and frail right now. " ( Shinji )

I wouldn't say that exactly; theres a fair bit development work in Java Servlets (java programs which run on the server side) and JSP scripting (pieces of embedded java code in a script compiled on the fly, much like php) with databases and the like. It's worth learning as an introduction to OO concepts.

C and C++ would definatly be worth taking a look at also; quite a few languages borrow their syntax from C so it's a good starting point for programming in general...although it is quite low level and is used for scientifc applications, electronics, industrial automation and device drivers.

TARE

Cheers Hecate, I seem to be missing some files needed to run that rainFall program though.

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\MainMenu\RainfallApp.java:3: Package javax.swing not found in import.
import javax.swing.*; // needed for BoxLayout

Could ya tell me where i can get them?


"The industry is entirely focused on C and C++; what little Java work there is is mobile phone focused and that's pretty underfunded and frail right now. "

I think Shinji was talking more about the games industry then the general programing industry, i think...

Thorbar

Shinji was only talking about the games industry but at the moment there are more c/c++ jobs in the uk then there are for java according to the IDC.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25380.html

The Corinthian

Originally posted by TARE
"The industry is entirely focused on C and C++; what little Java work there is is mobile phone focused and that's pretty underfunded and frail right now. " ( Shinji )

- Surely java used for more then moblie phone stuff ?

Yes, but Java has fallen out of favour with the marketplace to an extent. Java has always been most at home with networking/Internet related development. I'm sure some of the Duke-lovers will jump up and down now saying that Java can do so much more, and it can, but not in any practical manner in this Win32 orientated World.

Unfortunately, Java is also a victim of it's own success as it was/is very much seen as the choice of the serious Enterprise Solution (Read: dead expensive). As such, firms that may have felt bullish enough to go for the classic Java/Oracle Enterprise Solution solution in 99/00, have ‘cut back’ (not that they ever needed that level of scalability/security in the first place) to an ASP/SQL Server or even PHP/MySQL solution. Thus, while all the disciplines were hit badly by the dot bomb, Java was one of the worst hit, IMHO.

I would agree with Shinji and go for C and C++. Actually, if you can learn VB and even VBA, as over the years I’ve always found that you’ll never die of starvation if you can code for VB/VBA (you’ll never grow to fat either, but you can worry about that in the next economic boom).

Paulj

As a related question what are the prospects for getting employment in ireland these days as a programmer?

Im currently doing my leaving cert and will probably be going doing comp eng. in ul next year. I've heard that half the comp sys class in UL couldn't get work experience last year...is this true?
Are things going to improve?...

Has anyone any comments on either of these courses?

Thorbar

Can't remember the exact figures but a fair amount of people couldn't get work experience in comp sys last year. But that was the first year after the big dot crash and many companies were tightening the belt i.e. saving money by not taking on students. Also there's a huge difference between comp sys and comp eng in UL. There's loads of phyics and maths and circuitry in comp eng. And in first year they've only done a fairly brief run over of pascal and C. One of the lads in my house was doing it. So if you're looking to be a programmer I'm not really sure if comp eng is the best course.

photty

I would agree that C/C++ is key to getting work these days. I started off a few years ago with an engineering degree and notions of becoming a software developer. In college my only real coding experience was my final project which was Java/C++ based. However since then I've worked in embedded systems for telecoms (but not for much longer ) and I found that real world large software systems prefer C and at a push C++ wihout the frills (lots of inheritence, templates, STL). Point is forget coding by numbers with Java and learn C.

Lemming

Originally posted by Paulj
As a related question what are the prospects for getting employment in ireland these days as a programmer?

Im currently doing my leaving cert and will probably be going doing comp eng. in ul next year. I've heard that half the comp sys class in UL couldn't get work experience last year...is this true?
Are things going to improve?...

I think that you should also stop and think about whether or not you want to enter industry "x". I know SOOO many people who entered IT because they thought the money'd be good. A great deal of them have admitted to me that they "hate computers".

Personally I think they're all f*cking idiots. They've just chosen to spend the next 35/40 years doing something they HATE. No amount of money in the world can buy you out of that. I'd hate to see many of these people 20 years from now and what they're like because of their dislike of computers.

Apply for something you WANT to do. Not wha tyou think is "guaruanteed" job prospects (go join the civil servi ce for that) or "great money".

I love music and computers. Those wer e the two paths before me. I chose IT, since I didn't want my music to become my profession. I wanted it to be something I could just kick-back and enjoy.

Paulj

True.....but i love working with computers ....im just wondering will i have to emigrate in a few years to get a descent job?

The Corinthian

Bend with the wind.

Gavin

Originally posted by Lemming

Apply for something you WANT to do. Not wha tyou think is "guaruanteed" job prospects (go join the civil servi ce for that) or "great money".

Life isn't so rosy as that I'm afraid. People have to pay bills and keep alive. I've got a lot of respect for people that go to a job they hate every day, because they have to pay the mortage/people are relying on them.

Gav

Enygma

I've got a lot of respect for people that go to a job they hate every day, because they have to pay the mortage/people are relying on them.

And what kind of life is that? It's not healthy to go into a job you hate every day. You'll only end up depressed or stressed out. Do you want to look back on a life of stress and depression or a happy one?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Verb
Life isn't so rosy as that I'm afraid. People have to pay bills and keep alive. I've got a lot of respect for people that go to a job they hate every day, because they have to pay the mortage/people are relying on them.

I think Lemming was referring to those who enter the industry for all the wrong reasons. Normally short-sighted greed.

Personally, I think it an excusable sin if you're still young. We're all idiots at 18 - I used to be a futures trader for all the same, wrong, reasons (Long story).

Gavin

Originally posted by Enygma


And what kind of life is that? It's not healthy to go into a job you hate every day. You'll only end up depressed or stressed out. Do you want to look back on a life of stress and depression or a happy one?

( sorry getting a bit off topic on this )

anyway. Of course it's not good for them, but the point is that they do it because they have to do it. If they don't get up and go into their crap job, there ain't gonna be food on the table.

Having a crap job doesn't mean that your life is going to be horrible. Life could be wonderful outside of it. My point is that despite hating it, these people do day in day out, without complaining.

but anyway. I'd be of the opinion myself that you should work in whatever makes you happy, but sometimes that just ain't possible !!!

Gav

podgeen

paulj -> As far as I know about 40% or so of second years didnt get co-op jobs but things have picked up alot since then as far as i know.
Also if ur into programming id say go with computer systems over computer engineering as someone already said there is alot of physics and electronics in comp. eng.