A little victory :)

NeMiSiS

Eh the enter button slipped earlier..

Anyways I complained about the following to the advertising standards guys.

1.The term :doanload large files in seconds,on eircoms Hi-Speed adds was misleading,as in i would consider a large file over 10 mb defintly..

2. The term Hi speed itself was misleading and would make less informed users hink that they are getting broadband or someother substantially higher speed service.

3. The advertising of eircoms I stream on adsl.ie,would be the equivilant to hmv owning music.ie and selling their stuff on that.

reply i got..

I refer to your email on the ...

In keeping with out normal code of prtice we sent your complaint to the advertisers and asked for comments on your complaint. The advertisers said that they accept that while sizes have changed dramatically over twelve months and independent advice shows that a large file is typically 1MB in size.Using a Hi-Speed line this would take 62 seconds to download.Their advertising refrences to "download in seconds" will be deleted.Thank you for bring this to out attention

The advertisers said that both their products Hi-speed and I-Stream offer Internet access but they also differ in their features and benefits which appeal to different users.Hi-Speed offers about 4 times faster internet access,in the circumstances we do not consider that Hi-Speed advertising contravenes the code.

An advertisment for the purposes of our code is defined as a paid for communication,addressed to the public or a section of it,the purpose being to influence the behaviour of those of whom it is addressed. It is a charecteristic of an advertisment that an advertiser pays or rewards a third party for communicating a message.It is not considered that the code covers websites as such,but merely advertisments within a paid for space websites.In general other matters posted on websites are not covered by the code.

end.

Anyways so long stoy short no more of this download in seconds bull****..horay..a tiny kick in the balls of eircom

all the best

nem

ando

Originally posted by NeMiSiS
Basically I

ok

MarkR

A penetrating insight.

Don't know about you, but i'd like to hear the rest of the story!

Mark

yellum

Well done ! I think more arguments could be made to get other bits of their ads edited.

gurramok

Well done Nemi !
Who are the people/agency to complain to about misleading advertising ?
I just might send a complaint off.

NeMiSiS

www.asai.ie

Im sure ya could complain about i-stream and the cliams that its flat rate seeings that theres a cap not mentioned in the adds and the extra charges incurred after 3gb ..i dunno..?

nem

BoneCollector

yeah reference to FLATE RATE sould be removed, as flate rate is clearly defined as a one off fee incurring no extra charges which these services do not offer.

seamus

The fact that they have adsl.ie is quite a big issue - does anyone know how they got it? No doubt someone will a link to the IEDR's regulations.........



(Oh, BTW, nice one NeMiSiS - every little helps. I owe you a pint)

BoneCollector

Okay.. i have just sent a lengthy defined mail to this group regarding the advertisement of eircom`s i stream as Flate which it is not, and gave esats nolimits as an example of just what flat rate is..
Hopefully we will get a result..

Irelandoffline 1
eircom 0

dahamsta

The fact that they have adsl.ie is quite a big issue - does anyone know how they got it? No doubt someone will a link to the IEDR's regulations.........

Several complaints have been lodged with the IEDR, but when the complaints department /is/ the IEDR, there isn't much hope of an honest answer. This is one of the issues that IE Watch will highlight shortly to ICANN, IANA, the DoPE, etc.

adam

longword

Originally posted by BoneCollector
gave esats nolimits as an example of just what flat rate is..

Playing Devil's Advocate, No Limits is no more flat rate than I-Stream Solo. Usage outside of the small-print limitations of the product - on-peak hours and beyond the monthly cap respectively - will attract additional charges.

Dr.Seagull

yes esat's nolimits(75 hours a month) is hardly flat rate

BoneCollector

Lets not get outa hand here...
the Argument is what is flat rate and not if no limits is nolimits.

Flat rate is defined as a single set payment per billing period for use of a service.

I believe anyone that had no limits only ever paid a flat monthly payment and no extra charges.
it is given as the only! example.
We all know what flat rate is except eircom who on one hand say in there advert

"A flat monthly fee, so you can surf for as long as you like, whenever you like."

Im sure you will all agree this statement is FALSE!
then they try to justify this false statement with the following..

"The monthly fee covers charges for transporting traffic across the Internet within specified limits (download allowance). This excludes fees that may be applied to access sites or additional services eircom may seek to charge for in the future. eircom reserves the right to apply a charge of 3.6c inc. VAT per Megabyte for downloads in excess of 3GB on eircom i-stream solo. The regular monthly telephone line rental and voice call charges apply."

So they tell a lye and then they tell you why they told the lye in the first place??
(so in eircoms world this makes it aye okay!)
BO***X!!
Its eircom Mis-information to the public to confuse them and still try to justify there original statement that its Flat Rate!?

Longword:
nolimits terms and conditions under which the flat rate applies was always advertised as part of the promotion.
flat rate with no extra charges when use after 6pm week days and all week end. Normal billing outside these times.
this is the service you subscibe too.

eircom say... "A flat monthly fee, so you can surf for as long as you like, whenever you like."

"as long as you like" =(24/7) will incure extra charges per megabyte.
Even esat never made that claim!?

Macker

I noticed to-day that they have changed it from down load large files in "seconds" to "no time at all" which seems worse to me but well done for having a go anyway


Macker

BoneCollector

I got a reply in the post regarding the complaint agains eircom defenition of "flat rate"

it was a standard reply as before claiming that they could not interseed because the advert was not used by a third party who would be paid to advertise the product..

So Basicly eircom Can put as much Bull**** and mis-information and clearly mis-represent there products in whatever way they care just because they dont pay a third party????
What a bloody! LOOPHOLE!"!? :mad:

longword

Originally posted by BoneCollector
it was a standard reply as before claiming that they could not interseed because the advert was not used by a third party who would be paid to advertise the product..

Do I understand this correctly: It's not advertising because it's on their own site - where anything goes presumably?

If that's what they're saying, shouldn't Eircom's web site be considered an advertising hoarding, and the third party is whoever they're paying to peer to the internet?

If a printing company does up some glossy brochures for themselves filled with half-truths and mails them out, are they also exempt from advertising standards?

Dr.Seagull

like alot of laws in this country its out of date

BoneCollector

However.. I have noticed that there banners that appear on nearly every site you visit these days are advertising the same tripe! :mad:
So technicaly this is third party advertisement and i assume these sites get paid per click!

So maybe this can be pushed to its extreem

Dangger

NeMiSiS, your effort was picked up on by the press during the week, I pm'ed you after teh y rang me but I've heard nothing since, any way the Sunday Trib ran an article its up at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53706 . Nice work!

dahamsta

<more applause from dahamsta>

my hands hurt

adam

NeMiSiS

Well shucks..I didnt think it would make the paper ! Brilliant !
Thats wonderful !

NeM

Giblet

Since when has 1mb been considered a large file download. More like 10mB

seamus

Eircom were of the opinion that 500kb was a large file. WTF?? Are they really that far behind, or do they just make stuff up. 500kb was big - when we were running on 100MB Hard Drives ffs :rolleyes:

longword

Originally posted by Giblet
Since when has 1mb been considered a large file download. More like 10mB

A large file is a 700MB ISO image. 10MB is just "average blob of Flash".

sceptre

Agreed. (mind you, an email with a one-meg attachment is a large email).
Meanwhile a one meg download takes somewhere between three and four minutes on 56k - not exactly something one would regard as even a minor irritation. Compared with some of the MS updates available through windowsupdate (some of which actually are large files), Eircom seem to be using their own definition of what they consider a large files to justify their marketing.

From a certain perspective a large file is something that doesn't fit on a floppy disk. A one-meg file still doesn't meet that condition.

I'm guesing that the advert doesn't have any sub-print letting the consumer know what a large file as defined by Eircom is? Does anyone have any idea on why Eircom's marketeers might consider a 1meg file large? (considering that Flash movie thay had advertising DSL on their webpage - almost a meg in size as far as I remember)

GIven that it's an arbitrary definition & undefined in the advert I'll try knocking up a few comments and send them to the advertising standards authority

Gadgie

Originally posted by BoneCollector
it was a standard reply as before claiming that they could not interseed because the advert was not used by a third party who would be paid to advertise the product..

IIRC I have also heard radio ads for eircom i-stream which says something along the lines of "[i-stream] gives you total control of your costs with a flat-rate charge" and "stay online longer without worrying about incurring extra costs".

Surely these two statements are misleading as they imply that once you have paid the monthly fee then that's it - but as we all know unless you have a bandwidth monitor programme installed it's hard to keep track of how much you've downloaded.

Perhaps a little hope?

Glenn

ballooba

Originally posted by BoneCollector
it was a standard reply as before claiming that they could not interseed because the advert was not used by a third party who would be paid to advertise the product..

So Basicly eircom Can put as much Bull**** and mis-information and clearly mis-represent there products in whatever way they care just because they dont pay a third party????
What a bloody! LOOPHOLE!"!? :mad:

The Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland is the independent self-regulatory body set up and financed by the advertising industry and committed in the public interest to promoting the highest standards of advertising and sales promotion.
Basically the ASAI only relates to advertising by its members (i.e. ad agencies) therefore internal ads by eircom would not fall under its remit. So yes they can put awhole herd of bull on their own site if they so wish as long as an ad agency is not involved.From www.asai.ie