Religion and politics

bellum

I would be interested to hear about what people think of religion and the role it plays in a modern society. Does it have enough influence, or does it have too much?

Even on a wider scale, what role does religion play in life, and perhaps more importantly should it play. Should religion be strictly coralled into a level of personal significance, or have an importance to society as a whole?

Only well reasoned and explained replies please.

Ivan

In my opinion organised religion was "invented" to force mankind to be good. For the simple reason that man-kind is inherently evil. To coin a phrase "The nice guy finishes last" people are not rewarded for being good. So religion was forced on people in an effort to make them more openly good. Examine all major religions and you will see one underlying concept :

Love one another as I have loved you - Love one another as you love yourself

- Chrisitanity.

Incarnation. A man came across a slug in his garden. As he was about to kill the slug and remove it form his garden the slug spoke out loudly, and in a sobbing voice proclaimed its misery. The man took pity on the slug and heard its plees. The slug told the man how it had live as a slug for 100 lives and was weeping for its misery. The man again took pity on the slug and decided not to kill it. The slug's weeping ceased but almost instantly began again. The man quizzed the slug, "why are you crying again". The slug said, "I have live as a slug for 100 lives and on my 101st, I shall again return to living as a man, but you, you are on your 100th life as a man, soon you shall be a slug". The man decided to treat all living things as equals and not kill for any reason any lifeform.

- Fundamental teachings of Buddism

and so on and so forth. Mankind has created a benevolent "God or Gods" in the hope to enforce a good lifestyle on the wicked, and to justify their malicious actions on the wicked. Not only that however, but religion provides a certain amount of power over others. The Shaman, or priest or whatever you want to call them, could interpret all things as God's will to suit their own means.

Religion at best incorporates mans greatest flaws, and at worst magnifies them.

Ivan

potlatch

That's all fine and good but whether religion is a tool of control, a way of living together, an invention or divine providence, it continues to be meaningful to people. It acts as a scaffold for meaning for individuals and societies.

Personally, I am of the opinion that in order for religion to remain meaningful and true to its teachings, it has to resist politics. I like to keep them apart as far as apparatuses of political power go.

However, the power of meaning that religion holds over peoples varies for a great many reasons and there have been and are times when religion seems compatible with political power. But when it turns into dogma, it inevitably has the capacity to become a lethal tool of oppression, as has happened in the past.

I don't think it's for anyone to say, absolutely, what the correct combination is as regards political power - that unfolds with history. In Europe and America, we don't really like it interfering with with the virtues of rationality, politics and law. But in middle eastern countries, various religions are in bed with politics, while in Norway, Catholic doctrine heavily influences politics. It's up to each country to work it out for themselves.

I don't think it's possible for any one historical account to ever arrive at a clear, correct answer to that question.

Ivan

Originally posted by potlatch
That's all fine and good but whether religion is a tool of control, a way of living together, an invention or divine providence, it continues to be meaningful to people. It acts as a scaffold for meaning for individuals and societies.

Ignorance is bliss?

What if mankind were to throw off religion as a crutch? What if we were to depend on ourselves for spiritual development and not ours "clergymen"?

I dont know, I dont think anyone can say for sure, but I'm in the camp that says it would be better than current.

Religion at present, isnt sometimes, maybe incorporated into politics, religion is a politics of its own. Look at the Pope, he is "elected"? Its like a democratic emperor. In the older times, the pope had direct power over kings and queens and countries, now to a lot lesser extent. But Ireland is still a (apparently) a mainly catholic country, which means our governmental policies are based on catholic beliefs e.g. abortion. Fair enough there have been referendums, but peoples beliefs are based on religion, not on their own decisions.

Ivan

Chaos-Engine

Religion is wrong. The word "Religion" means a structure of ORGANISED beliefs usually directed by priest/rabie/cleric etc....

I belief that organised religion should be minimalised. People should practice their faiths/beliefs in a personal manner and not in the wider eyes of society.
Spirituality should be a personal concept not a collective one.

I think Hindus have it right. As with most pre-Abrahamic belief systems. Judaism, Christanity and Islam are all extremly organised and aim mainly to influence society and the way it is run.

Hinduism, Budhism, Taoism, Various Shaminist beliefs, Pagan celtic beliefs all are anarchic in nature. They are personal and no collective preaching is law.

If religion wants to influence society it should build good people who in turn will create a good society. Religion has no place in politics. But good people do....

Baldy

I personally believe that religion play too much of a role in the political system. Every century up till now the church has played a dominate role in development of society (look at ireland a backward society i-m-o up until the 80's). The washhouse of Ireland for the "sinful" daughters of ireland, they were moved to these places to live their lives washing clothes in torturte and to raise their children only to be given away, and then the church's ability to intervene in the x-case.

The x -case was a personal matter imo(bar the fact that the girl wanted an abortion) and the church if they had their way would have made the child carry the baby and have it. Now i dont want to go into the delima of the abortion issue so dont start saying im right or wrong but i think that the church has to much power

darthmise

I feel religion has its uses. The church has kept society in line by creating a God Fearing Community, and through mass congregation, a fear of judgement by our peers.
And people need something to believe in as they get older as the realisation that they too will have to check out hits them. People need that, so that can only be a good thing.

The problem lies in the belief that ones religion is right religion and in the refusal to accept any other religion. Apart from imaginary lines in the dirt between countries there is nothing that causes more wars than religion.

I think alot of our generation (i'm guessing 16-30) are alot more open minded towards other religions than our parents.

I am not a religious person but i believe in myself and developing myself spiritually. I don't feel the need to congregate with others who beleive likewise, and i don't feel the need to pray or ask for forgiveness, but i would be open to taking guidance from somone of more experience than me.

In this Country the Church wields to much influence over peoples everyday lives. Especially in rural Ireland.

If people weren't so easily led and could each act as individuals with regards to knowing what is right and wrong instead of having it ordained by others there might be some hope for us.
But when we continue to allow our society to be run by laws and decrees handed down for 2000 years, we hold ourselves back. (The apostles never had to contemplate the moral dilemma of Genetic Enginneering). We should be deciding these things for ourselves
Organised religions downfall is its refusal to change with the times.


It should be treated of as guidlines on how to live your life, not the rules by which you live it.

Bateman

It should be treated of as guidlines on how to live your life, not the rules by which you live it.

Very true. Religion should be an influence, one of many, on people as far as how they live their lived is concerned. And if a group of people in the political system share common beliefs, its natural that religion is then going to have a collective influence on them. However, although I belive this to be natural, its not exactly beneficial to society on the whole. "Christian Democrat" parties are some of the most corrupt in Europe, and using religion as an organisational base is detrimental to any kind of tehoretical smooth running system in my opinion. Alas. though, as I have said above, however, I believe its natural, for better or worse.

Victor

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
Religion is wrong. The word "Religion" means a structure of ORGANISED beliefs usually directed by priest/rabie/cleric etc....

I think your are mis-stating this, http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=Religion is a bit more balanced in that is recognises that there are personal and group beliefs. I think you are unfairly maligning religion, based on the actions of those who are / were actually politicians (and that extends from the run-of-the-mill bible basher to Hitler).

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
If religion wants to influence society it should build good people who in turn will create a good society. Religion has no place in politics. But good people do....

Perhaps religion has no place in politics and politics has no place in religion, but what both need to recognise is that both need a balanced set of morals and social values and traditionally religion has had a lower common denominator when it comes to morals and values (most religious idealogies are slow to preach killing, most political idealogies are ambiguous about it).

Victor

Originally posted by darthmise
In this Country the Church wields to much influence over peoples everyday lives. Especially in rural Ireland.

I think you exaggerate. I haven't seen a priest since February (a funeral). The reason the church has influence is (a) it is organised and provides leadership and people seek order and leadership in their lives (b) some people actually appreciate religion.

bellum

Karl Marx: "Religion is the opium of the masses"

Bateman

Yeah, what Marx said was true, it has been used in the past to keep people down, but ideally, it should not be used for that purpose. Obviously we don't live in an ideal world, however.:(

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
Hinduism, Budhism, Taoism, Various Shaminist beliefs, Pagan celtic beliefs all are anarchic in nature. They are personal and no collective preaching is law.

Well that's complete crap. First time I've heard anyone infer that Japan has an indivualistic culture.

Originally posted by bellum
Karl Marx: "Religion is the opium of the masses"

He only said that 'cos television hadn't been invented yet...