Time for a change of tactics ... maby?

212.2.179.66

I don't wan't to sound like im agains't IOFFL or the Boards here. But i was at a meeting tonight and some facts were raised. To put the outcome of it all blulntly. Eirocm win. They have succeded in everything they have set out to do. IOFFL have made no difference whatsoever in what they have set out to do 2 years on.
IOFFL have been pussyfooting about with lets take things behind closed doors and hope that things will happen. It didn't! or won't.

Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none. There was 177 people at the meeting i attended tonight (ok small number) but 98% of them said is IOFFL too easy going....work behind the rest of everyone else and tell no-one what's going on. The Blackout was discussed in detail and again 99% of the people attending agreed that it was worthless becaouse of the lack of support. A lot of suggestions were made and supported. But i'm going to be honest here. I dont want to publist them here for fear of segretation / intimidation / insulting and lack of support from people on these boards. But from what i have seen.... Faith in IOFFL is at about 2%. It's time to do something or get out guys!....

Dangger

Get out of what exactly? The other fifty or so organisations looking out for the Irish Internet user? Good luck!

Spare us 212.....etc. etc. how can you help? Or can you help at all?

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Dangger
Get out of what exactly? The other fifty or so organisations looking out for the Irish Internet user? Good luck!

Spare us 212.....etc. etc.

Why are you soo predictive in your answer?.... Offence/Defence is wasted on me. Read what i just said. It's being said all over Ireland... like it or not! The sooner ye stop ignoreing it and face the facts the better. Cloud 9 is only 1 step above Cloud 8.... but how you got there in the first place i will never understand!? 172 out of 177 people said that IOFFL were and are ****E! and they came from a few organisations. ( like i said a small number) but i have to agree with them. Make IOFFL a place that every and i mean EVERY! person can come here and support them a place to be.... Now think how can u do that without being soo insulting?
Its not easy is it?

22.2.179.66

m1ke

sounds like a plant from eircom

Dangger

Thank m1ke, I knew there was a sinister motive behind the pizza van outside my house recenlty with the spinning radar on top!

212.2.179.66

Since this all began i have sat back and taken a back seat to what has been going on here. By Back seat i mean that while i myself did not want to get involver because of my position that still did not stop me from pointing people here to the IOFFL site and the Boards. I am truly ashamed as to what i have seen going on in here. I personally have directed people here to not only give support but to help in any way they could only to find that they have been insulted / picked upon / and outcasted. I will be honest with you i am angry with what i have seen and my faith in your organisation has gone. Like i have said i am ashamed to have pointed people i know personally in your direction.

212.2.179.66

I did not spell check this reply and...well. i don’t care any more ok

212.2.179.66

Dangger / m1ke thank you both for showing an example of the sorth of support that genunine people that come here to support IOFFL actually get.

212.2.179.66

Tellox

212,what excactly do you expect IrelandOFFLine to do? They dont excactly have a lot of cards to play, and without an official sponser such as esat, their voice isnt very well heard.

Because lets face facts, for every 1 IOffL'er, theres 50 people blinded by eircom's dancing rat.

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

stormkeeper

Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none.

Well, even considering this... IOFFL have come a long way and you have to recognise that fact. As someone mentioned before in a previous thread, IOFFL have earned the respect of the media and the industry (even if one or 2 details are wrong, it's not the point). If IOFFL weren't respected, they could have been gone a long time ago, due to no one listening to them.

172 out of 177 people said that IOFFL were and are ****E!

Well, maybe instead of criticising them, they should help them out instead. It's all to easy to remember what a person (or organisation) hasn't done, as opposed to their accomplishments.

Make IOFFL a place that every and i mean EVERY! person can come here and support them a place to be....

Anyone can come here, it's just that they choose not to.

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Tizlox
212,what excactly do you expect IrelandOFFLine to do? They dont excactly have a lot of cards to play, and without an official sponser such as esat, their voice isnt very well heard.
Really?

Because lets face facts, for every 1 IOffL'er, theres 50 people blinded by eircom's dancing rat.
Instead of saying that let's turn it about? What can U do to stop them being blinded?

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

Already discussed / offered / and denied! by IOFFL ok?

212.2.179.66

stormkeeper

Originally posted by Tizlox
212,what excactly do you expect IrelandOFFLine to do? They dont excactly have a lot of cards to play, and without an official sponser such as esat, their voice isnt very well heard.

Because lets face facts, for every 1 IOffL'er, theres 50 people blinded by eircom's dancing rat.

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

I agree with this. Eircom's influence and hold is very strong, and with all the advertising they [Eircom] do, we're kind of left in the dark. I feel that that isn't right at all... Eircom should have realised ages ago that not offering a flat-rate internet service is wrong.

Attention Eircom/Government:
The way i see it (and most others), soon enough the whole world will have flat-rate, and we'll be a laughing stock... If whoever claims that this country is the E-Hub of Europe... Prove it! All these internet services can't be taken advantage of unless we have basic flat-rate.

::sighs:: it's getting too early in the morning for all of this

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Kennett
Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none.

Well, even considering this... IOFFL have come a long way and you have to recognise that fact. As someone mentioned before in a previous thread, IOFFL have earned the respect of the media and the industry (even if one or 2 details are wrong, it's not the point). If IOFFL weren't respected, they could have been gone a long time ago, due to no one listening to them.

172 out of 177 people said that IOFFL were and are ****E!

Well, maybe instead of criticising them, they should help them out instead. It's all to easy to remember what a person (or organisation) hasn't done, as opposed to their accomplishments.

Make IOFFL a place that every and i mean EVERY! person can come here and support them a place to be....

Anyone can come here, it's just that they choose not to.

And why do they chose not too?

I did try to help but i ran out of excuses/answers? maby u can Honey Coat it better than i can? Pigs still fly dont they?

Tellox

Well 212, what do you propose IOffL actually do, keeping in mind they are not funded?

212.2.179.66

Originally posted by Tizlox
Well 212, what do you propose IOffL actually do, keeping in mind they are not funded?

U must have missed my reply so here it is again

Already discussed / offered / and denied! by IOFFL ok?

212.2.179.66

stormkeeper

quote:

---

Already discussed / offered / and denied! by IOFFL ok?

---

When was it discussed and what were the reasons?


And why do they chose not too?

Not enough coverage, perhaps? Or maybe Eircom has a strong influence?

The way I see it (technically not my words), the whole country is being too complacent (I had a discussion about flat-rate and stuff at the centre where I'm doing my course). If we did something sooner, maybe Eircom wouldn't've gotten a hold.

So, instead of saying negative things about IOFFL, and thus making sure Eircom keep a foothold in their monopoly, they could either form another organisation, or help them out.

and lets not forget the fact that IOffL is non-profit organization. maybe if everybody paid dave €10 a month, he'd be persuaded to buy ad space

As it says here above, it's extremely hard to do many of the things Eircom can do, simply becaus they have the money and support, and we don't. I'm sure if IOFFL had enough funding, they'd be able to do a lot more.

Dustaz

IP, The last 3 threads you have started have been complaining about Ireland Offline. They have had zero constructive ideas in them.
I was going to lock this, but my curiosty is piqued. What was the meeting you were at? Who was attending?
Details please.

Lemming

Originally posted by 212.2.179.66

Tactics and support is needed really badly. At the moment there is none.
....

A lot of suggestions were made and supported. But i'm going to be honest here. I dont want to publist them here for fear of segretation / intimidation / insulting and lack of support from people on these boards.

Not meaning to be rude (in much the same way that you "don't mean to be against IOFFL"), put your balls where your mouth is and give us some of these amazing and wonderous instant solution suggestions that were mentioned.

And if they were so outsanding, then why haven't they been carried out already?

My 2 cents

MDR

212.2.179.66,

Its friday morning, I have just flown into Dublin at six this morning, I was just sitting down to enjoy a nice cup of coffee and read the boards, what do I find 212.2.179.66 going off on a rant again. I should stayed in bed in Birmingham.

I am really fascinated by your need to come on the boards and point out problems. Has no-one ever told you that your ability to point out problems doesn't make you seem like a smart or wise person. Do you supose for a moment that David, Adam etc are entirely ignorant of the situation and walk around in cloud cukoo land.

don't wan't to sound like im agains't IOFFL or the Boards here

Well what did you want to sound like, its a bit like saying 'I am really sorry but I think your idiot'. Own your words, if you are going to say something, say it, don't apologise for it.

But i was at a meeting tonight and some facts were raised. To put the outcome of it all blulntly. Eirocm win.

The first fact YOU could start with, was what meeting did you attend.

It's time to do something or get out guys!....

Would you like to take over ? Given that I have seen no evidence of your willingness to do anything but critise to date, I would think it folly on anyones part to read what you have said and 'say I really relate to what this guy is saying'. It all a bit Eamonn Dunphy-esque all talk no action.

But i'm going to be honest here. I dont want to publist them here for fear of segretation / intimidation / insulting and lack of support from people on these boards.

I came to these boards a couple of months ago, trying to find answers to the problems that faced irish people. Having lived in France, England and Northern Ireland, I was able to examine Ireland from a distance. I have gained a acute understanding of the old Irish Mentality of begudgers and cute-hoors that conintues in many old organisations like the incubant operator who we love so well.

I came to these boards and, offered IDEAS, TIME, ENERGY and COMITMENT, like others have done for so long, I was contacted soon afterwards and given a project which I hope to bring to fruitition in the next day or so. I expierenced none of these traits of which you accuse IOFFL. Perhaps it is you that is living in Cloud 9 ?

Zaltais

Just as a slight aside the IP address used as the original posters nick (i.e. 212.2.179.66) resolves to one owned by Ocean Communications Ltd. (Owned by Esat AFAIK)

Perhaps (s)he's trying to tell us something?

And if s(he) is an official of Ocean / Esat why doesn't (s)he do something more about Eircom?

After all the more pressure put on the government / the ODTR etc by competitors of Eircom the better!

Zaltais

BoneCollector

I will say one thing..

Whatever is happening..
its happening to slowly and alone.
I have seen posts where committee members remind us its a voluntary group, being run in peoples spare time..

Fair enough..
However there is more than the committee to consider here..
Poeple that post on the board are just as much willing participants as the committee, and to indicate the committee is burdened in anyway is unfair..
I have suggested that IOFFL have quarterly meetings, so as to get everyone together in one room to pull our resources and ideas and formulate put into effect, plans that will accelerate the process.

Posting on the board is fine except it lacks the real interaction of getting people into a room and realtime exchange of ideas etc...

NOTE: (committee "you are not alone, start to capitalise on your resource’s")

MDR

BoneCollector,

I complete relate to what you are saying, I have advocated more face time with committee. I don't think however quartely meetings would the answer, I would say bi yearily meetings, and bi yearily Q+A virtual meetings (IRC perhaps).

I am putting together a FAQ part to the site, to enable people to get motivate and informed. Giving them the tools to help out too, I am going to need stanard letters/emails people can modify and send, I am going to need kill answers to the stanard responses we recieve all that type of thing.

MarkR

I'm progressing pretty well with the basic format as discussed with dave. Text and links can be updated when those sample letters and emails are ready.

Btw, what are 212.etc's suggestions? I'm not exactly an avid reader here, but I don't recall seeing any suggestions. Care to fill us in?

Mark

Dustaz

legbreaker, we await with baited breath for his suggestions

MDR

Btw, what are 212.etc's suggestions? I'm not exactly an avid reader here, but I don't recall seeing any suggestions

I don't think he has a point yet, he seems to be happy enough shouting abuse.

MarkR

I can picture it... We should DO something!

steve-hosting36

Has the option of funding for the group been looked at?

What about sponsorship or similar if recourse to the members is out?

Steve

MDR

Has the option of funding for the group been looked at?

i am not sure it has been looked a very closely, at the moment its a question of when money is needed it is asked for. Like at the moment with the trip to Brussels ...

MarkR

I meant to ask about that. Did someone volunteer the cash, or did you get a deal from ryanair?

MDR

I meant to ask about that. Did someone volunteer the cash, or did you get a deal from ryanair?

Its all coming from members personal donations ...

Dangger

Has the option of funding for the group been looked at?

What about sponsorship or similar if recourse to the members is out?

We decided to reject sponsorship in the early days when it was offered, as we felt to accept it would have questioned our truly neutral stance. We have survived so far from donations. The only major costs to date have been our public get togethers including the seminars, and of course travel and printing.

It would be nice to not to have to worry about the financial aspect, but we recognise that we need to raise funds to persue certain tactics!

BoneCollector

It would be nice to not to have to worry about the financial aspect, but we recognise that we need to raise funds to persue certain tactics!

Quartaly meetings would solve this problem dont you think :cool: