give refugees and assylum seekers a break!!!

dathi1

That Swiss system sounds good...A friend of mine from Malaysia says they have a similar system. Europe wouldn’t accept it though and lets face it we have no choice...what Brussels says goes. If Nice goes through Germany and France will dictate "our fair proportion” of so called asylum seekers. To me this is colonisation by stealth. Example: Palestine; 1942 pop Jewish European immigrants 2% / 2003 60%

dathi1

"Ireland is the most git-ridden country under the sun... It is a land of knobbery and cultural silage, ruled largely by the bold and silly..."

is that from the daily mail as well?

Blade

Originally posted by Von

Lors, I'd be very sceptical of figures like that especially coming from Ireland on Sunday. It's owned by the Daily Mail group which takes a notoriously xenophobic editorial slant.

Anyway, I propose that all immigrants - whether they're EU or non-EU, refugee, asylum seeker or martian - should have their faces coloured black until the authorities have declared them to be 100% legit. That way we know who to shout abuse at in the streets.

Hardly any need, most of them are already black, lets just put some sort of arm band on the others!

I think Ireland on Sunday is run by Murdochs son, I named them so people could make up their own mind as to their accuracy. You can hardly deny whatever the actual figures that there is a serious problem with the current system and that this baby scam is being exploited by a hugh number of people seeking asylum here. Italy and Spain known for being favourite places for immigration each took in less immigrants in 2001 than Ireland did, and these countries both have around 40 to 50 million population! Theres a reason they're coming here and as I said earlier it's hardly the bleedin weather.

fisifan01

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8

What is wrong with it is that for every one of them getting a job it means one less job for an Irish person. Last months Live Register figures were the highest for over 18 months. 9,000 extra on the dole. This small country cannot absorb this wave of immigration. Of course, Capitalism will always welcome a high pool of unemployment .... that tends to keep wages down due to competion in the labour market, but, the downside is the bleeding dry of the Social Welfare system.

why should nationality be the basis of judging a persons suitability for a job. my father employs a romanian person and he says that he is totally committed to his work even more so than his irish counterparts. the job losses are NOT the fault of the refugees or assylum seekers its as a result of multinational corporations pulling out because there is not enough people to fill the jobs. many assylum seekers/refugees have beneficial qualifications.

Von

Originally posted by Blade

I think Ireland on Sunday is run by Murdochs son, I named them so people could make up their own mind as to their accuracy. You can hardly deny whatever the actual figures that there is a serious problem with the current system and that this baby scam is being exploited by a hugh number of people seeking asylum here. Italy and Spain known for being favourite places for immigration each took in less immigrants in 2001 than Ireland did, and these countries both have around 40 to 50 million population! Theres a reason they're coming here and as I said earlier it's hardly the bleedin weather.

Balde, as long as they don't turn into this lot...



Talking about scamming, I sincerely hope you haven't taken advantage of the introduction of the Euro to hike up your prices. Eh? Eh?

cujimmy

Refugees, Assylum Seekers call them what you will but at the end of the day they are still People. With this in mind, there is one group of people who come to Ireland with permits and are working and paying tax doing jobs that most Irish feel are below them. Then there are those people who would like to work and contribute but are not allowed . Then there are those people who before they came knocking on our door probably had someone knocking on theirs (with a tank or an RPG ). And finally there is, as in most groups including the "native" Irish a small minority who abuse the system.

bonkey

Originally posted by dathi1
[BIf Nice goes through Germany and France will dictate "our fair proportion” of so called asylum seekers. [/B]

I could be wrong, but wasnt immigration one of the areas where the veto has remained in place under the Nice treaty???

There is no EU policy on the communcal policy of asylum seekers, refugees or immigrants that I am aware of.

Am I wrong on this? Is there something in there I've missed? Exactly how will France and Germany "dictate" this to us?

jc

dathi1

. my father employs a Romanian person and he says that he is totally committed to his work even more so than his Irish counterparts

Fact is: The Romanian that your father employs entered this country illegally. A friend of mine (also in the construction industry) now only employs Romanians because they generally demand less and work more which is good short term. Long term it means loss of overtime for Irish workers and bang there goes your Mortgage etc.

Illegal Immigration is Good for:

IBEC and Mary Harney: More cheap labour.
Union bosses and hacks: Look at those juicy subscriptions go up.
The Church: More poverty: and that’s the way the pope likes it>)
Teachers: More money for Education.
Left wing socialist cults: They just love social breakdown.
Pat Kenny: He’s not gona lose his job.

People who like the current uncontrolled immigration system are usually the above and can be heard on radio and TV calling everybody else xenophobic and racist.

Bad for:

Irish Workers: Are you paying that 180,000 Mortgage? Lets face it you cannot compete with people who will sleep 10 to a room and work 7 days a week.

dathi1

I could be wrong, but wasnt immigration one of the areas where the veto has remained in place under the Nice treaty???

ok but did you read this:www.isis.ie/nice.jpg

There is no EU policy on the communcal policy of asylum seekers, refugees or immigrants that I am aware of.

One of the most talked about subjects at the moment at those secret Commission meetings. Channel 4 News done a special on this last month.

Am I wrong on this? Is there something in there I've missed? Exactly how will France and Germany "dictate" this to us?

If they can dictate to us that we can only fish 2% of our own fish stocks in our own waters and Spain, France and Portugal can deep-sea fish away.... they can do anything.

bonkey

Originally posted by dathi1
ok but did you read this:www.isis.ie/nice.jpg

OK - all of that shows that the Irish government chose not to put restrictions in place. It does not show that anything was dictated to us from the EU.

This is not about the EU screwing Ireland. It is about Ireland making decisions on its own in the light of its EU membership and the Nice treaty.

We had the option of putting these restrictions in place. We chose not to. There are reasons why we chose not to, and there are also reasons why perhaps we should. However, at the end of the day, this decision was made by our government and our elected officials, so I fail to see how it or about fishing levels has any relevance to the Nice treaty.

We were not forced into anything here. It was not dictated to us. We made the decision. Our government.

act is: The Romanian that your father employs entered this country illegally.

Fact is that unless you know this person personally, you havent a clue whether or not he entered the country illegally. You are making assumptions.

Even were you not making assumptions, you come to the conclusion that "illegal immigration is bad". I havent seen a single person here try to contradict that. All people are saying is that we need reform, and that such reform does not have to include a closing of our doors.

Immigration, asylum-seeking and refugeeism can all be catered for, legislated for, and profited from by all concerned if we manage it correctly. If we cannot manage it correctly, then it doesnt matter what we do, as the problem will persist.

Both you and I, and pretty much every other poster here is in agreement that our current system needs reform. There is no need to continue preaching to us about how bad our current system is. Where we differ is that I do not see door-closing as the required, or even preferred solution.

jc

Aspro

People who like the current uncontrolled immigration system are usually the above and can be heard on radio and TV calling everybody else xenophobic and racist....
Bad for:
Irish Workers: Are you paying that 180,000 Mortgage? Lets face it you cannot compete with people who will sleep 10 to a room and work 7 days a week.

So the problem isn't with refugees, asylum seekers or immigrant workers. The problem is greedy employers, slum landlords and the insane unregulated housing market, ansbacher gangsters robbing the country of funds and their pals in government.

meglome

I have Romanian friends and a Romanian works for us and they are very nice people indeed. So less of the Romanian bashing. And none of them are here illegally. But lets be honest I'm not the biggest fan of the Romany Gypsies, who's begging skills are legendary.

Blade

Originally posted by Von
Talking about scamming, I sincerely hope you haven't taken advantage of the introduction of the Euro to hike up your prices. Eh? Eh?

Actually we're loosing money because normally we put up our prices once a year when we re-open in January, but to stop people accusing us of using the Euro to hike the prices we skipped the annual increase. everything was rounded to the nearest 5c somethings went up some down.

fisifan01

NO he gets the same pay as the other irish person who my father employs. he has a workers permitt and he pays taxes

JarJar blinks

Romanians that come here to work say they're from Transylvania, the ones that come here to scam say they're from Romania

Victor

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8
In my experience, someone who mentions racism is invariably referring to anyone else who disagrees with their liberal view, whether it be on immigration control or any other race-related issue. This is the new Fascism.

[abuse on]How are the voices these days? Medication working? [abuse off] For a topic "not about racism”, you seem to mention it a lot.

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8
This small country cannot absorb this wave of immigration.

But it has, and this is not a "small" country, especially when you consider the existing population density is the third lowest in the EU. If we had the same population density as The Netherlands (still accepting immigrants), we would have 27,000,000 people, not 3,800,000.

Country		Density
Finland		17
Sweden		22
Ireland		55
Spain		79
Greece		81
Austria		97
France		109
Portugal	109
Denmark		124
Luxembourg	171
Italy		191
Germany		233
UK		244
Belgium		336
Netherlands	385

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8
but, the downside is the bleeding dry of the Social Welfare system.

The Social Welfare Fund has had an excess for the last number of years.

Originally posted by dathi1
The fact is we now since shengin have uncontrolled borders. (Part of the EU thingy I know).

You mean Sheningen Agreement? When did Ireland sign it? last time i came through Dublin Airport I was asked for a passport.

Originally posted by dathi1
Its not right that anybody can just walk straight into this jurisdiction illegally. [/URL]

WTF? Talk to the Gardaí then and get them all manning the border (with the other part of Ireland).

Originally posted by dathi1
This Asylum Seeker Passport Baby scandal has to be done away with now...no other country would even think about it.
[/URL]

It is being sorted, all the political parties (except the DUP / UKUP) agreed to keep it and as I remember 95% of the population voted to keep it also when voting on the Belfast Agreement.

Originally posted by dathi1
One of the most talked about subjects at the moment at those secret Commission meetings.

Which ones?

Originally posted by dathi1
If they can dictate to us that we can only fish 2% of our own fish stocks in our own waters and Spain, France and Portugal can deep-sea fish away.... they can do anything.

They didn't dictate, we agreed (and took billions of euros for our farmers). And they are hardly 'our' fish stocks if they are migratory. And Ireland has some of the biggest fishing boats in the EU

Originally posted by dathi1
The Romanian that your father employs entered this country illegally.

How do you know?

Originally posted by dathi1
A friend of mine (also in the construction industry) now only employs Romanians because they generally demand less and work more which is good short term. Long term it means loss of overtime for Irish workers and bang there goes your Mortgage etc.

The price of houses is dependant on a number of factors, primarily supply and demand. Demand is strong because of the number of Irish people moving out of home (see my previous posts on this) and because their disposable incomes have risen. Supply is well behind because there aren't enough workers to build the houses.

Most construction workers can still get overtime if they want it (nixers or elsewhere). Construction industry wages are driven by demand and do not directly affect house prices, however this wage inflation does harm inward investment.

Originally posted by dathi1
People who like the current uncontrolled immigration system are usually the above and can be heard on radio and TV calling everybody else xenophobic and racist.

I don't think many people are advocating 'uncontrolled' immigration. What most people want is for the existing system to be implemented fairly and promptly and updated where necessary.

Originally posted by dathi1
Irish Workers: Are you paying that 180,000 Mortgage? Lets face it you cannot compete with people who will sleep 10 to a room and work 7 days a week.

Yes, I can. Because I know the ins and outs of Irish business, when they don't. I know my rights. And If I was paying off the mortgage on a €180,000 property I would feel resentment against the government that has long had links with the construction / property industries.

dathi1

You're running the accomodation forum

Victor

Originally posted by dathi1
You're running the accomodation forum

Relevence?

dathi1

The Social Welfare Fund has had an excess for the last number of years.

Try telling that to the average Irish old age pensioner.

Which ones?

all of them

y didn't dictate, we agreed (and took billions of euros for our farmers).

The Irish people didn't agree to having our migratory fish stocks plundered by Spain and Portugal.

How do you know?

OK he legitimately applied for a work visa and got it. Especially since most people from Romania coming to Ireland have such a good track record.

Most construction workers can still get overtime if they want it (nixers or elsewhere). Construction industry wages are driven by demand and do not directly affect house prices, however this wage inflation does harm inward investment.

Dam it!! Time to slash those wages lads.....there's a load of cheap labour on the way in.

Yes, I can. Because I know the ins and outs of Irish business, when they don't. I know my rights. And If I was paying off the mortgage on a €180,000 property I would feel resentment against the government that has long had links with the construction / property industries.

Well now their movin over to new links with the massive cheap labour import industry IBEC et al.

Month
Asylum Applications
Deportation of Failed Asylum- Seekers
Voluntary Returns*

Asylum Applications Deportation of Failed Asylum- Seekers oluntary Returns*
May 2002 795 42 *36
April 2002 888 35 *49
March 2002 932 74 *20
February 2002 763 58 *39
January 2002 838 29 *33

Victor

Originally posted by dathi1
Try telling that to the average Irish old age pensioner.

Thats a diferent side of a different discussion. Pensioners now get more than they could have hoped for previously, fair enough things cost more now, but these were the people who begrudged contributing to pensions when they were working and voted for governments who didn't take a strong line.

Originally posted by dathi1
all of them [commission meetings]

You are just avoiding the question now by generalising.

Originally posted by dathi1
The Irish people didn't agree to having our migratory fish stocks plundered by Spain and Portugal.

Their democratically elected representatives did. And by their "migratory" nature, they move from one country's waters to another’s. If the government really want to take a strong line on this, they should introduce a royalty scheme for fisheries like they have for oil, but they won't because Irish fishermen would object.

Originally posted by dathi1
Dam it!! Time to slash those wages lads.....there's a load of cheap labour on the way in. Well now their movin over to new links with the massive cheap labour import industry IBEC et al.

Kindly remember construction workers are among the best paid in the country and have a wage agreement that protects it (not to mention their ready access to 'cash').

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by Victor

[abuse on]How are the voices these days?

The voices I'm hearing predominantly these days have a distinct Nigerian lilt. Either that, or an incomprehensible Romanian dialect as a "Big Issue" is shoved in my face.

gurramok

From online.ie

the annual report of the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner states that out of 20,000 applications only 900 were genuine refugees, it confirms that ireland is a soft touch to economic migrants and the cost was over 200m euro last year.

Also here at rte

) It has emerged that the independent body set up to advise the Government on the granting of refugee status recommended last year that over 6,000 applications should be refused.
In its first annual report, published today, the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner said that in 2001, only 467 applications received the Commissioner's support.

It said 2,000 applicants failed to attend a second interview. Another 600 applications were regarded as manifestly unfounded.

Who said there was no abuse of the asylum system? !:D

vorbis

some people here are talking in terms of an invasion. What is the total number for refugees in Ireland. Is it even 200,000? Theres not THAt many of them. As for benefits, they get housed, some food and a small weekly allowance. Its hardly palatial. Since they're not allowed work, calling them freeloaders is a bit harsh.
For the I'll lose my jobs brigade, history has shown that an influx of refuges can actually help an economy grow. Look at America and Israel. New people bring added impetus and a greater desire to succeed. I mean look around, how much of the jobs in ireland are down to irish entreprenurs?

dathi1

history has shown that an influx of refuges can actually help an economy grow. Look at America and Israel.

America is a large continent with a population in excess of 250m and you cant just walk across the border. I wouldn't give Israel as an example of anything except the effects of massive immigration from Europe on a native population. Singapore would be a better suggestion.

vorbis

Israel the country took in about a million refugees after it was founded. It helped its economy double in size. Of course there are some other issues affecting Israel that have nothing to do with refugees.

Blade

Originally posted by vorbis
Israel the country took in about a million refugees after it was founded. It helped its economy double in size.

Yes thats great but it was on someone elses land and it was for their own people not for Nigerians and Eastern Europeans. Slight difference there I think.

vorbis

what do you mean? Because they're black they can't work well?
Its still relevant to refugees. The fact is if you have jobs vacant, however menial, they need to be filled to prevent an economy stagnating.

Cork

give refugees and assylum seekers a break!!!

give refugees and assylum seekers a break!!!


This is politically correct.
This is what the "nanny State" comes up with

Talk about pinko liberals?

How much will these breaks cost?

Why were not Irish illegals in both US & Oz not afforded these breaks?

These are currently being deported - why should illegals be deported from Ireland?

vorbis

immigrants will take up the same jobs that the Irish took when they emigrated. Have we become so selfish after taking so much?

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by vorbis
some people here are talking in terms of an invasion. What is the total number for refugees in Ireland. Is it even 200,000? Theres not THAt many of them. As for benefits, they get housed, some food and a small weekly allowance. Its hardly palatial. Since they're not allowed work, calling them freeloaders is a bit harsh.
For the I'll lose my jobs brigade, history has shown that an influx of refuges can actually help an economy grow. Look at America and Israel. New people bring added impetus and a greater desire to succeed. I mean look around, how much of the jobs in ireland are down to irish entreprenurs?

Please don't edify them as "refugees". They are economic migrants and opportunists, pure and simple.

Your comparable example of U.S. and/or Israel is not relevant to the current Irish situation. These were two entities at the genesis of the "green-field" stage of state building and experiencing a severe shortage of labour.

Your "we'll lose-our-jobs brigade" are your Irish brothers in the catering/building/farm-labouring sectors who have been disenfranchised from their jobs by cheap foreign labour. Try to show them the same compassion as you do "refugees".