Three megabyte cable anyone? Oh, sorry, we live in Ireland...

dahamsta

Yahoo! Finance

RCN Corporation announced the launch of a new "super-charged" high-speed Internet service in its San Francisco and Los Angeles markets. Known as MegaModem(SM), it enables RCN's California customers to access the Internet at download speeds of up to 3 megabytes per second (Mbps), double the company's standard downstream speeds of up to 1.5 Mbps, and up to twice as fast as competing cable modem and Digital Subscriber Line (DSL) services.

SkepticOne

That's great. No longer will they be limited to a puny 1.5 Mbit/s download speed.

Canadian

Hate to rain on your parade, but in Canada 3Mb/s ADSL and 3Mb/s Cable is everywhere.... and it costs about 27 euro/month. Even worse, in HONG KONG (I was there in Feb) you can get 8 Mb/s cable access from TWO competing companies. Current prices were around 35 Euro/month.

Don't expect things to get better though given the state of affairs in Telecom land. Eircom is one of the few european companies not on the virge of bankruptsy, so as a Company they are a success.

Whether you believe the Irish would be better off with high speed internet is a completely different subject - but Eircom as a private company HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY to the Irish public, only to their shareholders. I think we all agree that this isn't good for Ireland's future.... but Eircom doesn't care. Only when the politicians figure it out will it happen. (and although your PM is a nice guy, he is not bright)

Privitization doesn't work in all markets to the benefit of the whole. Look at Railtrack in the UK. Eircom here.

I personally believe the system is quite corrupt and that the big guys at Eircom are paying off the Government to let them run their monopoly.... Ireland's government is known to be the most corrupt in Europe (and knowing the greeks & itallians, thats saying something).

Got I miss Toronto.

MDR

Ireland's government is known to be the most corrupt in Europe (and knowing the greeks & itallians, thats saying something).

Frankily I think your arguement is naive, and I take exception to it, considering the turn around of T.D.'s we have had in recent years (especially after the last election) and the effect the numerous tribunials have had on the political establishment. I don't doubt there is still corruption in Government, I don't doubt your statement was probabily true up until the earily 90's, but I don't agree with it any more. They aren't perfect, in fact they are probabily very far from it, but to say they are worse than some of the Mafioso style corruption of Italy is unjust.

Irelands problems are rooted, in being a small market so there is a limited number of large teleco's here hence competion problems, the incumbent teleco still has the psychology of an old Irish Business (fewer customers, charge more), regulatory issues, larger countries like the UK,Canadia and Italy have much larger regulatory authorities which can invest more time, money and effort in developing a fairer business environment for telecos, our ODTR has bitten off more than it can chew.

It is far to simplistic to say, Ireland your crap, thank God for country X. You need to look at the root causes and address them. This is what IOFFL does.

So I say hooray for Canadia, Hong Kong, etc and their technology, but when I wake up tomorrow I still have to live among the Irish, and your arguement has doing nothing to further their cause.

dahamsta

Well, Transparency International ranked us even with Chile in their Corruption Perceptions Index in 2001. And we all know who our own local Pinochet was up until recently...

"It's BOSS Mara, BOSS!"

heh

adam

MDR

Funny we are rated higher than Japan and Germany,
I though you where shot for corruption in those countries,
weird ....

Canadian

Many Apologies Ray - did not mean to insult the current irish government. I've only been here for a year, so my memory doesn't extend back to the dark ages you refer to.

High speed internet access isn't the only challenge for Ireland though (albeit the focus of this group). You lack infrastructure of all kinds including roads, rail, flat rate local telephone etc.

This infrastructure is the grease of a successful economy. Low tax rates have certainly attracted some good international investment - but won't add to Ireland's standard of living in the long run. One of these years, Mr. Ahern will lose to labour or the EU will gain enough power to increase corporate taxes and Ireland will sulk back to the poor nation it recently was.

This current challenge IOL is having with Eircom is not a problem in itself, its a symptom of a larger problem - the tolerance of failure. Lets hope this countries youth demands more from its leaders than the current middle class.

Lemming

Originally posted by MDR

Frankily I think your arguement is naive

Well .. I don't think its as naive as you make out. There is an awful ring of truth around some of it.

considering the turn around of T.D.'s we have had in recent years (especially after the last election) and the effect the numerous tribunials have had on the political establishment.

And name all the corrupt polticians who have been given the boot, or jailed because of the revelations (and not just contempt opf court).

NOTHING has happened from all the tribunals, except a massive cost to the taxpayer. Not a single politician has been "sent-down".

But, we are getting off-topic.

MDR

Many Apologies Ray - did not mean to insult the current irish government. I've only been here for a year, so my memory doesn't extend back to the dark ages you refer to.

To be honest, I was more annoyed at the tone of your Post than your specific reference to corruption in Government. I don't view favourabily posts that point which sort of say 'god its crap here, look what they have over there'. They don't help.

This current challenge IOL is having with Eircom is not a problem in itself, its a symptom of a larger problem - the tolerance of failure. Lets hope this countries youth demands more from its leaders than the current middle class

You need to go a little bit deeper and ask where does the tolerance of failure come from, indeed you are to right to point out Irelands Tolerance of failure.

Ireland as nation was desperately poor up until recentily, now people will argue with me and say 'we where never that bad'. The awful truth is yes we were that bad, we were a third world nation up until 1990 for instance.

During these long years of poverty (I never bandy about with words), we developed the tolerance of failure you refer to. Not dislike Britain during WWII, we developed a sort of there is a war on, stop complaining and get on with it. Or in Irish terms, the country is f-cked stop complaining and get on with it.

Charlie Haugey came on the TV in 1983 (me thinks) told us it was time to tighten our belts, we accepted it. We accepted 20% unemployment, we accepted 56% tax, we accepted mass emigration, we accepted no free medical care, we accepted cut to the bone social welfare, all because we had little of no choice. And this went on for years.

The world outside, went from boom to bust, to boom again. Ireland lived in a permenant state of impoverished limbo. All this gave birth to the tolerance of failure you spoke about, which continues even today.

Up until recentily, while young people where screaming about crazy car insurance prices, the older generation just accepted the insurance companies where acting honourably, and young people had no reason to complain, 'sure we never had a car when we were their age' and so on.

Irelands social problems don't stop there, I must admit with dismay, another, bigger problem is rooted much deeper in history. Irish people don't own Ireland.

It stems from occupation by the British (again I don't bandy about with words). While occupied by the British, it became perfectily socially acceptable to screw the state over and way you could, because they where British and should be here in the first instance. This extended from cheating on your taxes to dropping litter in the street, people just didn't give a crap, because it wasn't theirs, they didn't own it, they might as well abuse it.

This extended into the modern day Republic, partially I suppose due to post partition, half the people didn't support the new state and wanted a united Ireland. Its awfully evident in Modern day Ireland, people have an entrenched us and them attitude towards the government and its services, more intense than any other european country in which I have lived. People still to this day clap each other on the back for dodging tax, getting a claim, falsely claiming welfare, driving on a provisional license, drunk driving, you name it. Its all socially acceptable, 'cos hey we don't own the country anyway.

The younger generation can't or don't remember the days of poverty and the us and them attidutes are fading, so I have high hopes for the future. The mere fact that Ireland Offline exists, is a postive step, in previous years people would have just said, 'there is a war on, stop complaining and get on with it'.

MDR

Not a single politician has been "sent-down".

I think Micheal Lowry might disagree with you there, and many, many others have been finicially broken by the tribunials. Therein lies the justice.

Lemming

Originally posted by MDR


I think Micheal Lowry might disagree with you there, and many, many others have been finicially broken by the tribunials. Therein lies the justice.

Really?? So why isn't he in prison for what he did? Why hasn't he been fined MASSIVE amounts in arrears (excluding his court costs).

What about Haughey?, There's others that I can't remember the names of.

NO politician has been convicted of, or been ordered to pay up owed tax. Therein lies the status-quo. Therein lies "no justice"

And some of these boys are still in power.

MDR

Your only a little bit wrong,

Micheal Lowry spent time in prison for impededing the progress of a tribunal (contempt of court). That tribual when it finishes will make recommendations to the DPP (dept of Public Prosecution) and we may or may not see him go to prision. Any which way Lowry is a finically ruined man (legal costs god bless soliciters), has been force out of the Dail etc.

What about Haughey?, There's others that I can't remember the names of.

Same tribunal as Lowry and as I said it is ongoing. Haughey is dying of cancer and so will probabily not be with us long enough us to send to prision.

NO politician has been convicted of, or been ordered to pay up owed tax

Which brings me to my next point did you see how much cash the CAB (criminal assets burea) netted last year. Charlie haugey was partof that, he was forced the Revenue to pay captial gains tax + fines on all the little backhanders he go tover the years. Ok, he is still not a runied man, but he has had to sell his home, his boat, raid his kiddies piggy bands to pay the bill and appear before a tribunal to answer to the people. I am sure that pinched his self esteem quite a bit.

And some of these boys are still in power.

There is very few of the old school left I think you will find, especially after the last election. There is justice, very slow justice I would agree, but there is justice

Hannibal_12

I fully agree about the level of corruption here and lack of infrastructure, I think Canadian hit it on the head.
Just wait for the ansbacher report to come out, then'll you'll see how clean politics in Ireland is.(Put the mafia to shame, and you're right, Bertie isnt that bright.)
He/She is dead right about €ircon's level of responsibility to the Irish people, non existent.
How long will it be before we have 3mbs connections to the net?

Macker

Micheal Lowry spent time in prison for impededing the progress of a tribunal

I think you're mixing him up with Mr Lawlor......Mr Lowry topped the poll in good ol' Tipp ,god bless him the prick


Macker

MDR

Yes,

I think you're mixing him up with Mr Lawlor......Mr Lowry topped the poll in good ol' Tipp ,god bless him the prick

do pardon me, I must have been asleep when I wrote that post, Liam Lawlor ex T.D. Dublin West, the Gift Grub peeps @ Today FM do a good satire of him.

MDR

I fully agree about the level of corruption here and lack of infrastructure, I think Canadian hit it on the head.

Corruption is absolutely endemic in Irish Society, not just in its politics, for reasons I have already explained at length. I don't like it but its true, it all well and good to point the finger a politicans, but I would first look around you, there are plenty of people in your family, friends, community, parish, workplace to start with before you get quite that far.

It stems from your sister who drives on her provisional license and doesn't see a problem with it, to that guy in work who tripped over a curb when he was pissed and claimed off the County Council. Politics is no longer the place to start, its a long way through a purge, what was it last election 33% turn over of tds ? We need to start asking more fundamental questions about the foundations upon which our society is laid.

He/She is dead right about €ircon's level of responsibility to the Irish people, non existent.

Are you suprised Eircom is a company out to make money, is not apologic for it, nor shoud it be. BT only provided FRIACO because at the request of WorldCom, OFTEL intervened and forced them to. There is no such thing as a beneolvant company, couple of dozen million dying horrible deaths in africa because of the cost of drugs to fights can tell you that.

Eircom in't going to freely give us, what we want. We need to and have been pressuring Government, and it is starting to have the desired response.

Bertie isnt that bright

Now Bertie doesn't occupy any particular place in my heart. I do believe he has probabily done his far share of dodgy dealing in his time, but no where near as bad as those who went before him.

As for him not being smart, ok you might not like the guy, you might question his past, you ca question his commitment to the elecorate he represents etc. But not smart, hum ... , not eduacted as to our agenda (IOFFL that is) true enough, but I suppose the responsibity is on us there. Nope, I don't agree, I think he is very smart, and he surronds himself with smart people Cowen (jesus, he scares me, but he knows his stuff) and Creevey (ok, no personality, but he can juggle the figures). Just ask Dublin Bus and Taxi drivers how smart he is, ask David Trimble how smart he is, ask Micheal Noonan and John Bruton how smart he is. And where as these guys don't like him, they will prolly tell you that he is very smart.

This arguement is neither here nor there, Bertie doesn't need to be smart as long as he gives the people what they want.

Ultimately commenting on Ireland's corruption, drueling over our neighbours infrastructure and shaking our fists and beating our chests isn't going to get us very far. Turn your anger to action.

stormkeeper

On the subject of Bertie... I actually remember him coming to SuperQuinn (Where I work) during the Election period... I was extrememly tempted to ask him what he was going to do about flat-rate, but I was working... A wasted opportunity

dahamsta

Shouldn't this have been moved to Politics, uh, well, just after I started it?

adam

MDR

On the subject of Bertie... I actually remember him coming to SuperQuinn (Where I work) during the Election period

Doh,

I chickeed out with Ruiri Quinn, redemed myself later but with a few lesser TD's...

Shouldn't this have been moved to Politics, uh, well, just after I started it?

Yeah,

your prolly right, but if you moved it that there, my political ignorance would really begin to shine through

Dustaz

I wouldnt inflict this on the politics, it would mean i would have to actually be there for a few seconds, and i really dont want to deal with that


Locked. if anyone actually wants it moved there to continue the discussion, pm me.