A Permenant CTYI?

Bazookatone

Okay, here's the thing. During the course, I was feeling nostalgic and sentimental. I mean, CTYI has been good to me. All of my closest friends are people that I have met there and I have nothing but happy memories of the place. I much prefer CTYI to my normal school, where I always feel frustrated by people who are wasting my time.

Anyway, I asked other people on the course this question

"If, before you had started at your present school, someone had given you the choice of attending a school for gifted youngsters, basically a permenant CTYI, would you have taken it?"

I got an overwhelming "Yes" from all of them.

Now, it's a little too late for me, I'm to old to come back as a student, and even if someone was to set up a permenant school for the gifted now, it would be a few years before it was up and running and no-one seems to be in any hurry to start one.

But, what if, about 15 or 20 years from now, when most of you are married and have kids, someone, namely me, was to create a school for the gifted. And what if you childen could be almost guaranteed places in this school, in return for supplying the capital to purchase the land, build the schoo, hire a staff etc etc. Would you say yes?

Here's my idea of a perfect school for the gifted:
1: Instead of the normal class structure of a secondry school, each student would attend classes relating to their ability in each subject, so if a person had third year level Math in Second year, they would be in a third year level class.

2: All the teachers would be College level instructors.

3: Class sizes would be very small.

4: Because of points 1-3, students would make fast progress.

5: Classes would be far more intensive than regular school.

6: All instructors and staff would be known by their first names

7: When they applied, each student would choose a nickname, or handle, for themselves. This is what they would be known as, like fighter pilots.

8: There would be no uniforms. Ever.

9: It would be a boarding school, but instead of dormitories, there would be small, self contained units, consisting of a common room, 6 bedrooms with two people each, either two communal washing areas, or batrooms in each room, and a small kitchen where older students could cook for themselves. A lot like college, I suppose.

10: Every student would have a laptop computer. These would be upgraded every 4 years or so and the older ones sold or something. Most room would have a port in them where a student could plug their laptop into a schoolwide network, powered by some secondhand supercomputers. Since half of the students would be computer experts anyway, the school would neverneed to hire any one to fix or maintain them.

11: Instead of normal P.E., all students would lear hand to hand combat from a Black Belt in some Martial Art. By the time they left, each student would be a lean, mean killing machine.

s0l

Yeah it would kick huge amounts of ass!
its a pity it would cost, what like 18 grand for 6 months.
and since I'm to much of a lazy bugger to make that much money it would be too much

while on the subject of kids, anyone else want to join me in naming there child "Jello" after the great man himself?

lordsippa

Welcome to never-never land! And candycane bridge! And various other things.

Yes... it would be nice if there was a way for higher achieving students to be catered for, but what you're suggesting is... well... stupid.

Personally, it's more a case of what's happening in the system... if a kid overacheives so what? They have to do the same exam as everyone else and chances are they'll get bored by second year and never do a scrap of work again. If there was a way to alter the system, to allow students of higher ability to advance at a faster pace, then by all rights a school for those students would be a fantastic idea. But the one you've thought up still is highly unrealistic. I can find but one reason for the exclusion of uniform in such a school but it such a great reason that i think it SHOULD be implemented <ie. uniforms should go>: Lack of uniforms nurtures creativity and individuality.

The problem with your school would be the same as with CTYI, only a far larger scale for you. CTYI is exclusive in not only ability but also finances. Only well off people can afford to send their kids there. So how is ANYONE gonna afford to send their kids to you?

And that's my view.

<VOTE ATARI JAGUAR!>

smiles

No way!

It'd make them into "knobs" full of their own self-importance and the like.

Same reason i wouldnt send them to a private school

<< Fio >>

eth0_

It's not totally implausible, many countries have (government run) schools for the very gifted, for example Russia has a school that prepares kids for very high ranking government jobs.

Our government, on the other hand, would rather spend ridiculous amounts of money on silly things like a spike in O'Connell st.

One thing....why do kids have to choose and be known by a nick? What's the psychology behind that?

Miss-Misery

Private school makes people into knobs who are full of their own self-importance? Funny,i've been educated entirely in private schools,and most people i know like that we're born that way, and some don't go to private schools.

smiles

You're misunderstanding.

Private School and a permentant CTYI are essentially wrong (in my eyes) - something for the rich, and it segments society, if the kids want to learn more then they'll figure out a way of doing it themselves.

I dont think kids should ever be allowed leave public school (do extra stuff if they want) - it gives you a great realistic view of life - it can be ****e, but it's worth it in the end.

<< Fio >>

eth0_

Originally posted by Smiles

But, what if, about 15 or 20 years from now, when most of you are married and have kids, someone, namely me, was to create a school for the gifted. And what if you childen could be almost guaranteed places in this school, in return for supplying the capital to purchase the land, build the schoo, hire a staff etc etc. Would you say yes?

That sounds to me like an exclusive private school, because you're excluding those whose parents can't afford to put up the capital for this venture. There are gifted kids who live in disadvantaged situations you know, what about them?

smiles

Originally posted by eth0_


That sounds to me like an exclusive private school, because you're excluding those whose parents can't afford to put up the capital for this venture. There are gifted kids who live in disadvantaged situations you know, what about them?

:rolleyes: You've got it wrong, that was posted by Bazookatone not me.

I believe thats exactly what i said.

<< Fio >>

Bazookatone

1: Actually. I don't think the entire idea is completely un-realistic. There are already many countries with some sort of special school or programme for the gifted.

2: Look, when I say that the people who help fund the building of the school will have places guaranteed for their children, that doesn't mean that it is some sort of elitist snob school. It's just the only way I could think of that anyone could raise the capital needed to fund something like this. Many private schools got started off that way.

3: And yes, it would not be cheap BUT part of the reason CTYI costs so much is that the programme has to rent the res and the classrooms from DCU. It wouldn't be quite as expensive. plus, don't quote me on this or anything, you could probably get the government to foot some of the bill, seeing as it would be a special school providing facilities that the government is not providing. And of course, there would be a scholarship programme for students with financial difficulties, just like in many schools, public and private.

btw eth0, the nickname thing is just something I dreamt up. I think addressing everybody by a handle of some sort would keep the atmosphere more casual than a normal school, without losing that distance that most teachers seem so intent on keeping between them and their students. Plus, I like nicknames.

Bazookatone

To smiles: no offence but You seem to be a bit of a class warrior. I am not suggesting creating a school for only the rich, or anything. Oh, and, while I am sure that there are gifted kids living in disadvantaged areas, and it's possible that they would not get to go to a school like this, that doesn't mean that gifted kids who can afford it should not.

What you're saying "If the poor kids can't afford to do it, then we shouldn't let the rich kids do it" That's a terrible attitiude to have. Even if only the very richest families could afford to send their children to a school like this, those children could go on to become famous doctors who cure cancer or Space Shuttle pilots or something.

I'm sorry that we can't always help everyone, but that doesn't mean we help no-one so that everyone is equally worse off.

Bazookatone

Actually, does anybody know how much it costs to send a child a an existing private school?

By the way, any student that wanted to attend this school would have to pass an intensive examinnation process. No just a SAT test, but a full on psychological profiling.

Their spatial, verbal, mathematical abilities, problem solving, rescourcefullness, stress management, reflexes and reactions everything, so we would have a complete picture of that persons mind.

Anu

This is nothing to do with the topic but I just wanna know who lordsippa is? and were they at CTYI session 1 '02?

Oisín Collins

i think that a permanent CTYI is a good concept but your idea is too exclusive and unreasonable.

Full psychological analysis?? are you crazy? what parent would submit their child to that.

i think you need to re-think your plan bazzokatone.

Oisin (for those who dont know me.......hah)

smiles

Originally posted by Bazookatone
To smiles: no offence but You seem to be a bit of a class warrior. I am not suggesting creating a school for only the rich, or anything. Oh, and, while I am sure that there are gifted kids living in disadvantaged areas, and it's possible that they would not get to go to a school like this, that doesn't mean that gifted kids who can afford it should not.

What you're saying "If the poor kids can't afford to do it, then we shouldn't let the rich kids do it" That's a terrible attitiude to have. Even if only the very richest families could afford to send their children to a school like this, those children could go on to become famous doctors who cure cancer or Space Shuttle pilots or something.

I'm sorry that we can't always help everyone, but that doesn't mean we help no-one so that everyone is equally worse off.

Class-warrior? I don't think so. I'm just realistic.

What about all the people who couldn't go?

I think it should be run on a donations scheme, anyone who can afford to give money is expected to do so, anyone who can't, well then they can go for free.

If someone is going to become a famous doctor -- well it wont be their school that will cause it.

<< Fio >>

Lint Demon

Would you be affiliated with CTYI? Or.. would you base any of it off of CTYI? I really like CTYI. Its really really good.

shep the malevolent pixie

this is a really stupid argument. Fio, i love you an' all but stop taking this so seriously. you have to realise that it's *NEVER* going to happen. it would be lovely in a blurred fuzzy logic sense but in reality it just wouldn't work. besides, the whole fun part of CTYI is its uniqueness. if we had to go there all the time, it'd turn into an ordinary school-like situation and would be boring, just like everything else in this godforsaken hole we call existence.
sHep :cool:

Asuka

Originally posted by smiles
Private School and a permentant CTYI are essentially wrong (in my eyes) - something for the rich, and it segments society, if the kids want to learn more then they'll figure out a way of doing it themselves.

Youre making a mistake in your views on Private Schools, and God knows, ive set you straight on this enough times before. Private schools in Ireland are essentially EXACTLY the same as public schools. There is ABSOLUTELY no difference from the point of view of the student, the only difference is in terms of administration. The government also pays for the running of private schools, and fees are NOT payed by parents. You are mixing up private schools with cram colleges such as the Institute of Education on Leeson St. and Bruce College.

As for a permanent CTYI, Id take it, with some modifications. First off, students are taught discipline, necessary for the rigours of life. This is the foremost teaching. Secondly, all students take at least 2 martial arts and learn about hand to hand combat in theoretical and practical classes. Invaluable lessons which will stand them in good stead all their lives. Thirdly, students are trained in the used of firearms and explosives. Fourthly, students wear uniforms at ALL times, and all socialising is strictly forbidden. Only after this has all been accomplished will they be ready for the final step - to turn them into an elite private army bent on world domination (of course).

Now THATS a school id send my kids to.

A

smiles

Originally posted by Asuka
Youre making a mistake in your views on Private Schools, and God knows, ive set you straight on this enough times before. Private schools in Ireland are essentially EXACTLY the same as public schools. There is ABSOLUTELY no difference from the point of view of the student, the only difference is in terms of administration. The government also pays for the running of private schools, and fees are NOT payed by parents. You are mixing up private schools with cram colleges such as the Institute of Education on Leeson St. and Bruce College.

You've tried to set me right, but I still hold the view that there's a certain snobbyness associated with private schools.

But, yes, I am mostly talking about cram schools and the likes.

<< Fio >>

Kiwisco

Im probably just being pretentious here and I'm over-generalising, but from my own experience intelligence tends to lead to two things.

1.Intelligent Spawn
2.Good job with good money


This is possibly the reason as to why these elite students will be able to go to this expensive school- because 'we', their financially succesful parents, could by then afford to send them??


As a result the cost might not be as dramatic a factor?


I willingly accept all comments about how much I am generalising here, but i think in a way its true, though dramatically flawed!


Nice dream though bazookatone.

As for private schools creating snobs...... not always and most would have turned out that way in a public school considering their peers there to be......'inferior'?-I've seen it happen! For the record the nearest private school to me is 40 mins away by car.

Bazookatone

To Everyone: This IS a hypothetical idea. I mean, I'm not making it my life's goal to build this thing or anything, I'm just asking would you send your own children to a school, very much like CTYI, but on a year round basis. Put aside the whole money thing. From your own experiences and memories of CTYI, would you put your own kids in a place like it for months at a time?

To Asuka: THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!! The aim of the whole idea was just to create an army of highly intelligent, psychotic super soldiers who would live or die at my command. Why the martial arts training, why the night classes in computer hacking, explosives, small firearms and electronics! Why would paintball be a part of the curriculum. I know I didn't mention this in the first post, but that was going to be included too!

Lint Demon

Now that you mention this, I must rethink my choice. I dont really go in for that kind of thing.

lordsippa

Fio, I can see where you're coming from, but it's not entirely correct. probably because you made a quick generalisation cause you weren't bothered doing a full write up... but...

Private schools can be snobby <see blackrock>, or they can be not so snobby <see... actually... i can't think of any>. but it doesn't mean that all their students are snobby. the people who end up so are the people who would end up complete skangers in public schools... basically the people who follow the crowd. it sucks, but many people are cattle and they can't be helped.

as for the permanent ctyi... let me point out something... IF THE ACTUAL CTYI DOESN'T GET GOVERNMENT FUNDING <and it IS a trustworthy brandname, being an established entity in other countries> THEN HOW THE HELL WILL YOU?! Plus, i don't want my kids <not that i'll have any> growing up with a ****ing superiority complex! Yeah - they'll know to think individually and that they can think above others, but i'd hope that they'd grow to respect people who aren't as smart as they, because relationships based entirely upon intellect are as shallow as a porn shoot romance.

and Anu... i am a nevermore as of 01, and i never did session1. but i AM sven and as such you SHALL BOW BEFORE MY HAIR! BWAHAHAHAHA!

Asuka

Originally posted by lordsippa
Private schools can be snobby <see blackrock>, or they can be not so snobby <see... actually... i can't think of any>. but it doesn't mean that all their students are snobby. the people who end up so are the people who would end up complete skangers in public schools... basically the people who follow the crowd. it sucks, but many people are cattle and they can't be helped.

Sven, youre making almost exactly the same mistake as Fio is - mixing up prrivate schools and high-profile schools. Yes, Blackrock College and Gonzaga and Clongowes Wood and Belvedere are all private schools, but afaik they are also rather expensive - as in parents have to pay fees above and beyond what the government covers. On the other hand, take my (ex)school - it is also technically a private school, because it was not set up by the government; in this case it was set up by a religious order, the Patrician Brothers. However, in my town there are two other secondary schools, a private one and a public one. In terms of teaching and attitudes, these schools are PRACTICALLY IDENTICAL. Until the issue was raised with me a year or two ago, i didnt even know that my school was private, and what the differences were. I assure you, these schools do not produce a 'snobbier' class of person, theyre just as scummy as the rest of the world.

A

Anu

I would have to say that I think the permanent CTYI idea is a cool one. And i think i would definately send my children to it. (if I had any) It wouldnt b the same as private schools now or whatever. Did you not read the points outlining what it would be like? I think its a good idea and if we start campaigning now the government might change their minds bu the time the 20 years are up, once they see what CTYI did for us. and we will be the future so technically it'll b up to us and our generation.

Clare

well, considering the whole "I" in CTYI (aka, the being in ireland part)... i would definately send my kid there. and then it just being CTYI all-year-round makes it perfect. i cant think of a place i would rather be right now... so why not give that joy to my kid?

Bazookatone

Lordsippa (Sven, it's me, Jack), you know the way you said that you wouldn't want your kids to get a superiority complex, I'd just like to say that, before I first went to CTYI in 1999, I had a major superiority complex and I thought that I was better than everyone, and that the one thing that CTYI did for me was make me aware that , just because I was a little cleverer than other people, I shouldn't neccessarily feel superior to them, because I saw that many of the people that got into CTYI were not what I would call "intelligent". So, if you didn't want your kids to get a superiority complex, then my school would be the best place for them, since they would continually be surrounded by people of equal ability and would never feel superior.

figgle, wiggle, wob blobbley booble, bogglobbo bliblibble

Alaronshannara

I'd dress like a teen and attend the school myself, screw my kids! My perfect one would be different though. The policies would be as follows:

1: Like Bazookatone said, no uniforms. But, to enforce a policy of no descrimination over fashion (Like that would happen in a smart school), the punishment for said criticism would be adhering to a strict dress code for a given period.

2: Standard rules of no violence, respect etc., but the teachers and pupils would call each other by their first names all the time. That's the policy in my school and it works without a hitch.

3: Pupils would be supplied with tech, but it would be different. Rather than a laptop, students would have a remote console; a keyboard, mouse, screen and transmitter/reciever. Each would have their own partition on a massive supercomputer in the building. The consoles would also support videophone within the (compound?) and could dial an outside line to the students home if required. (If they were boarding)

4: Students would attend a mandatory home-ec class, so they could cook their own food. That way we get around the problem of crap food and the dilemma of paying for decent cooks and fresh milk each morning.

5: As before, the students are trained in martial arts, but there is of course other PE activities to be chosen from apart from the mandatory ones.

6: Because classes would be so intensive, it would be the aim of the school to cover what a normal secondary school covers in 8 months in 6. Over 6 years, that would add up to 12 months extra.

7: Students would be allowed to specialise in topics that interest them (To a certain limit) to kick start them into the college courses they plan on choosing. For projects that involve purchases the school might grant the students funding like a research grant for scientists.

8: The school would be a public front for a massive-scale underground corporation investing in genetic alterations on lving things with the long term intent of creating a super-human, really smart and really all round cool. Student projects could be manipulated to aid the progress of this project.

9: Aside from the standard set of mandatory subjects that one expects from any school, there would be the student's choice from the following (Grouped accordingly):

Engineering/Materialworking (wood or metal)/Electronics/Robotics
Programming/Computer architecture/"Advanced online navigation"
All kinds of advanced science courses
Right minded topics, such as art, language, music, etc.
Covert ops/Surveillance/Military strategy
Architecture/Design
Politics/Killingpeopleandgettingawaywithitandbeinginsanelyrich

PS: I go to an expensive private school and none of the people there are snobby. I don't think I'm snobby...

Snurf
-Alaron

Smiley

I would just like to make the arguement that....

A permenant CTYI kind of kills the idea of making new friends, stuck in a university environment for 3 weeks with some of your greatest friends, and some great friends you have yet to meet. That is more than half of the excitement and enjoyment that CTYI brings. Stretch that scenario into 6/8 months, and see what happens. It will fast become moderately boring and monotonous. The fun will probably burn out after 4/5 weeks. Look at normal CTYI...3 weeks is more than adequate to keep you in the right state of mind for the next year...all buzzing and happy. That's another important thing....CTYI keeps you in a good state of mind. If the time period were any less, then the effect wouldn't happen. Anymore, and the effects would burn out. See what I mean....another half of CTYI is staying in contact with your friends, discussing the events of CTYI...missing it. 49 weeks without CTYI, and by gum, you'll be happy to go back!! you see...half the point of CTYI is the fact that it lasts for 3 weeks....3 very intense weeks. If that where 6/8 months....then I doubt it would be as much fun.

Secondly, who's to say that in 20 or so years, schools will be the same. We might have a completely new regime on our hands....schools might acknowledge gifted kids....they might have special needs (the good way) programmes...sufficient to accout for gifted childrens academic needs. You never know....in 20 years, all schools might be model CTYIs. After all....we'll be dealing with a completely new generation. They might all be absolute, complete and utter geniuses. Not likely, but it's still possible.

See the differences between us and our parents....God only knows what the next generation will be like. It's a daunting thought.

Please note that I have just woken up....this is far too early for me...

Mike...

ll=llannah

i agree with you- 3 weeks is the perfect amount of time for us to be happy leaving ctyi. when you think about it, by giving us three discos, we end up having the three week cycle that ensures that we leave relatively happy. the first disco, all of us are "bonding" (shall i say- to sound really soppy and corny,) the second disco, everything is more or less settled into place. somewhere between the second and the third disco- soemthing good/bad happens and it is resolved by the third disco because we want to be happy when we leave. so we do our best to solve said problem, and the third disco is happy and sentimental. thus the parting of ctyi with dear memories. or at least that's the theory my friends and i came up with on the way to the airport on the last day.

regardless of the three week thing, though, i'd love to send my kids to a permanent ctyi. if they were half as happy as i was at ctyi, I'd send them knowing they'd have a wonderful time!:)

Mystic Fibrosis

yeah but see it from our to-be children's point of view.

I mean, just because we love CTYI doesn't mean they will. After all, generations are vastly different. And who's to say are kids WILL be talented? Just because we are doesn't mean they automatically will.