Any word on today's Eircom/Esat/ODTR "flat-rate" meeting?

aidan_dunne

Well, today was the day Eircom, Esat and the ODTR were supposed to be meeting to settle prices and arrangements regarding flat-rate access, according to Esat in that ENN article last week. I haven't heard anything about it or how it went so I was wondering if anybody else has.

Okay, I suppose I'm being a bit premature and it would take several days, if not weeks, before news would be out about what happened and was discussed at this meeting but if anybody has heard anything substantial, i.e. not rumours, why not tell us. Cheers.

SkepticOne

The other thing to remember is that any actual product will follow four to six months after any wholesale deal is announced that actual flat-rate products are available. Personally, I have some reservations about what is going on. Independent ISP's like UTV Internet who offer flat-rate in the North should have been involved in the consultation. They will, after all, be the ones purchasing FRIACO off Eircom and selling it on to users.

aidan_dunne

Another 4 to 6 months before we see the products? Jesus Christ, we need flat-rate NOW, not in another "six months"!!!

If that's the case then, what the hell was that Esat guy on about in the ENN article when he said "flat-rate by the end of the summer"? Talking through his ar$e then, obviously. And didn't Eircom's Pat Galvin also say at the seminar last August he couldn't see any reason why there couldn't be "flat-rate by Christmas"? Of course, in both statements neither were being specific on which Christmas or summer they meant. They both probably mean 2006!

I agree with what you said about UTV Internet as well, SkepticOne. As I said in another thread, if this meeting was actually about setting the wholesale prices for flat-rate then all the ISP's should have been represented at this meeting because, as you said, it will be they who will be reselling the product. The fact that only Eircom and Esat were there looks very fishy to me. Personally, I still think they're in some sort of collusion together and this was a meeting about how they could both further shaft the average Joe Soap in the street. But, then again, I've always liked a good conspiracy theory!

dahamsta

Another 4 to 6 months before we see the products?

It depends on exactly how much work the parties involved have done, and whether or not they decide to co-operate, but yes, it could take that long. It could take longer.

And it's not just UTV that should have been invited to this meeting. According to the ENN article- correct me if I'm wrong - only four operators were invited, but there are far more than four operators in Ireland. Sure, the majority of them aren't active, but that's part of the problem -- every OLO with a licence and every ISP operating in Ireland should have been sent an invitation. Whether they turned up or not remains to be seen, but they should have been invited. How can the ODTR possibly guage interest if they don't even ask?
adam

BoneCollector

If that's the case then, what the hell was that Esat guy on about in the ENN article when he said "flat-rate by the end of the summer"?

Ahem"
I think i clarified that definition earlier
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=508556#post508556

vampyre

Theoretically if everyone played nicely it could be as little as three weeks after the wholesale rate is set hence the before the end of the summer reamrk I presume. I aslo presume the likelyhood of that coming to pass will be less than that of Shrub looking for a moment like he has a clue.

Urban Weigl

I called the ODTR today, but none of the people I talked to there were aware of any such meeting taking place.

So either this story was made up by ElectricNews (or someone sent them a made-up report), or the ODTR don't have a clue about what they're doing. I hope it's the first, not that it matters at this stage -- I'm going to be moving my business out of here soon as possible considering the poor infrastructure and high costs.

I guess if the Irish government doesn't want my taxes, so be it.

dahamsta

So either this story was made up by ElectricNews (or someone sent them a made-up report), or the ODTR don't have a clue about what they're doing. I hope it's the first

I'm pretty sure it's not the first.

adam

aidan_dunne

Okay, now this is really starting to look suspicious and it's pi$$ing me off.

The ENN article said that the ODTR were also to attend this meeting. The ODTR says they know nothing about it. Are we then to assume that either 1) the meeting never took place or 2) the meeting went ahead between just Esat and Eircom and, if this is the case, was my earlier "conspiracy theory" about this meeting not being about flat-rate at all true?

Dammit, I want answers and I want them NOW! I'm fed up being left in the dark over all this crap. There is obviously something going on in the background somewhere and I think we're entitled to know what it is. All this secrecy is really, really pi$$ing me off at this stage.

Time to start sending e-mails and getting on the blower to demand answers from these people, I reckon.

BKtje

Could it be the ODTR peeps u spoke to arent clued in? or perhaps unable to say?

kamobe

That's a bit crazy....

Has anyone from IOFFL officially contacted to ODTR or the reporter that published the article? Be interesting to see who's lying/wrong

MDR

I have contacted the ODTR, I am awaiting a response.

vampyre

For the past short while the ODTR has been crap about following up consumer queries. Maybe it's to do with the revamp from regulator to commision but it sucks.

MDR

Their Freedom Of Information Officer wants me to call her, to have a chat, I am mildy concerned about this ...

vinnyfitz

Originally posted by vampyre
For the past short while the ODTR has been crap about following up consumer queries. Maybe it's to do with the revamp from regulator to commision but it sucks.

Frankly I don't agree. I find them continuing to be informative efficient and, in comparison to many other private and public sector bodies with which I deal, to be one of the best.

crawler

Does anyone know if it actually in relation to FRIACO - I believe it was more along the lines of 1892 types access, which is not really FRIACO?

SkepticOne

Where are you getting that from, crawler?

aidan_dunne

Yeah crawler, do you know something we don't know? If you do, please elaborate for us.

1892 access? Isn't that off-peak flat-rate, i.e. No Limits style flat-rate? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

vampyre

Vinnyfitz
Yeas indeed they are better than most bodies. But I do feel just very recently the service has slightly declined. could be just straightforward volume swamping them.

The Cigarette Smoking Man

I presume it's this meeting you were talking about.. roll on 2003 :rolleyes:

Green light for fixed-line competition
By Jamie Smyth


Consumers will be able to rent telecoms lines from phone companies other than Eircom by January 2003 following a decision by the telecoms regulator yesterday.

The move, which is intended to to revitalise competition in the ailing residential telecoms market, will enable customers to switch to competing firms and retain one bill for all their telecoms needs.

Currently, customers who transfer from Eircom to other telecoms suppliers have to continue paying line rental to Eircom while paying their bills for phone calls made to their new suppliers. From next January, Eircom will be forced to offer competitors, such as Esat and NTL, a wholesale line rental product that will enable them to offer line rental direct to consumers. This should make it more difficult for Eircom to win back residential customers from its competitors.

Figures obtained by The Irish Times show Eircom has won back 150,000 customer lines since January 2001 from a total of just 320,000 lines held by competitors.

The decision notice issued by the regulator, Ms Etain Doyle, said market research had found that multiple bills were a major factor in influencing telecoms customers to revert back to Eircom.

It also highlighted that competing operators often faced issues of bad debt as customers could switch back to the incumbent or to another operator more easily.

It said Ms Doyle believed the residential sector would benefit most from a single bill and should be given priority. Multiple billing was more of an issue for customers in this sector.

Ms Doyle has set a deadline of January 2003 for the introduction of the single bill system. An industry forum will be established to help work out the detail of the project, the decision notice said.

An Eircom spokesman said yesterday the firm was reviewing the decision notice and had no comment to make. But the decision notice highlights that Eircom lobbied against the proposals.

The number of customers who currently use carrier pre-select technology - the circuit that enables customers to use alternative telecoms suppliers - has declined alarmingly recently. In March, the number of carrier pre-select customers fell to 145,000, down from 160,000 four months earlier, as Eircom tightened its grip on the fixed-line telecoms market.

Coupled with financial difficulties at WorldCom and Spirit Telecom, and speculation that Esat may withdraw from the market, pressure had been growing on the regulator to kickstart competition.

The decision yesterday, which reflects a similar announcement in Britain last month, will go some way towards boosting the competitiveness of licensed telecoms operators other than Eircom.

Mr David Taylor, director of regulatory affairs at Esat, said the firm welcomed the decision. "Customer perception is that two bills are a bad thing, so this will help to revitalise the market," he said.

aidan_dunne

So, it looks like this was actually what the meeting was about and not about a wholsale flat-rate product. See, I knew it, I just f**king knew it. They've codded us all again.

And as for this:

But the decision notice highlights that Eircom lobbied against the proposals.

Now why aren't I surprised at that? Bloody Eircom!!!! :mad:

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some sort of challenge in court by Eircom over this and draw it out further until 2004 or 2005 or 2006 or as long as f**king Eircom can drag it out. Ba$tards!

vampyre

Hopefully, God I hope I am right here, eircom may now be of the opinion that pointless but expensive legal challenges have got to stop. They lose every time against the regulator and it costs up to millions each time. Not a wise use of resources. I do know for a fact that the voice traffic rental that they are on about today is in no way connected with FRIACO and I also know that a few weeks ago the position was Esat are negotiating for FRIACO but the price issue had not been addressed which is duh, the big point.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by The Cigarette Smoking Man
I presume it's this meeting you were talking about.. roll on 2003 :rolleyes:

No meeting is mentioned in that article quoted. I think the article refers to the decision notice here dated 26 June 2002 in which the Regulator approves wholesale line rental (which is not related to flat-rate or FRIACO). I don't think it has any relevance to any meeting held on the ninth. The source of that information was an article in Enn (and later picked up by The Register) in which ESAT announced the meeting on the 9th and flat-rate later in the summer.

aidan_dunne

Okay Skeptic, but we still haven't even had any confirmation that a meeting did actually take place last Tuesday, let alone what was discussed or agreed upon at this meeting.

Some of the posters here have said they've contacted the ODTR and they didn't even know there was supposed to be a meeting, let alone if one did actually take place on Tuesday.

We are still none the wiser and the least we need to know is if this meeting that was reported on ENN and The Register did actually take place last Tuesday. If we can get confirmation that it did, then perhaps we can try and find out what was discussed/ageed upon at this meeting. But the fact that one of the parties that was supposed to be in attendance didn't even know about the meeting in the first place looks very suspicious to me.

The Cigarette Smoking Man

Originally posted by SkepticOne
No meeting is mentioned in that article quoted.

That's what happens when you read too fast.. I'm sure someone had a meeting to discuss it before it was released.

aidan_dunne

Perhaps you should have a read of this post

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57290

The Cigarette Smoking Man because, judging by your name, I reckon it might be right up your street!

Be interesting to see your thoughts on that particular thread.

Dangger

There was indeed a meeting covering aspects of FRIACO. I spoke to the ODTR and some of those invited, about it whilst in Brussels.

fabien

Can you share with us what actually went on, and especially what came OUT of it if you know? Thanks !

crawler

1892 access is along the lines of the old "No-Limits" stuff. Eircon's problem in allowing TRUE FRIACO is that they will claim is makes no economic sense. The likes of AOL who operate on the basis of true FRIACO in the UK wouldnt dream of ever coming here with a flat rate product without such an offering.

Depending on the wholesale price 1892 could be done by the telco's based on long off-peak calls - but this very much depends on the wholesale price of 1892 access.

The meeting last week did NOT happen ( nothing weird or anything , just a double booking me thinks ) but will happen very shortly.

On timing , the ODTR seem to have change in pace.....CPS single billing is due to be introduced in Jan 2003 , which if you think about all the work that has to be done in Telco backend systems , is not bad. It's worth having a read of the "CPS in Ireland 2002" decision notice on the ODTR site......

SkepticOne

Originally posted by crawler
The meeting last week did NOT happen ( nothing weird or anything , just a double booking me thinks ) but will happen very shortly.

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but do you have any evidence for this that you would care to share with us?

crawler

I wouldnt say evidence as such but as far as I know the information is correct....I'll let you know when I hear anything myself....