Govt reintroducing fees on the sly

Stephen

Yes, Bertie and his pals have given me one more reason to hate their corrupt little government. Dunno if you've heard the news today, but the so-called third level "registration fee" has been bumped up to over 600 euros - around 100% increase.

So much for free education.

phobos

It looks like USI is going to be protesting on the streets of Dublin again, come next September. Jesus I did that bloody march twice, but this time they're really taking the piss.

You can read about it @ http://www.usi.ie/


a really annoyed ;-phobos-)

DiscoStu

this is a fúcking disgrace. i cut short my summer away and have gotten seriously in debt just so i would pass my repeats. now it looks like i wont be able to afford the "Registration fees". no wonder those ff'ers didnt have anything to say about the state of the student grant, spiraling rent etc. during the run up to the election. ****ing assholes.

Stephen

Anyone happen to have an email address for Noel Dempsey so that I may express how fúcking pissed off I am?

Gerry

protesting will be a bit late in september, after we already pay the fees. Hopefully something is organised for before then.

DadaKopf

The people USI should be targeting right now are the Leaving Cert students. Bomb the media. Problem is, school's out. They're just going to have to wait until September.

I'm thoroughly disgusted that the government would introduce a stealth tax on public education. It's going to prevent a whole swath of the population from considering third level education.

Technically, it probably doesn't amount to breaking the 'free fees', and €600 is nothing on the thousands a year that UK colleges cost. But the move is, possibly, just the beginning of a slow price hike. It's a fact that next to the US, Ireland has the most profound gap in high and low income inequality, this move is, surely, a bad one for Irish society and one which we should strenuously oppose. If the rhetoric they preach is of an egalitarian society, then they're just going to have to make good the policy of 'free' education.

Rabies

B@ASTARDS !!!

i have heard nothing about this in the news or papers.

thanks for posting that info Stephen.

€600 is too much

i have spent my summer working but the money i have earned is going to pay off other debts and get me through college next year. this is fu<king madness :mad:

i hope the USI organise a march before college starts back again.

we students get a rise in college fees and each year Bertie and his band of muppets get a salary increase :mad:

chernobyl

I have heard that the increase only applies to a percentage of students, so who gets the hike?
U students or IT students?

Slydice

I think its kak

Stephen

I think it applies to anyone who doesn't get a student grant (like me), but I can't be sure.

Lawnkiller

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

this really annoys me - i know poeple who can (by passing their exams) but won't be able to afford going back to college this autumn.

Cork

I think that the government need to spell out where they are going.

Students in Ireland are pretty OK compared to the UK.

I think that we need to double student grants while at the same time re introducing fees.

This would be fairer.

Abolishing fees was an error. But living on the student grant is impossible (been there, done that - borrowed the t shirt)

po0k

Tha's aweful shít

/me gets the placard out

grants are fine if you can get them.
however, I don't think that they're handed out fairly, and that the family status is taken into account.
The threshold should also have been raised by at elast 25-30% this year, not the paltry 6%.
My mother is a primary level teaching principal.
We are a single parent family, my father having died some years previous.
I honestly don't know how much she earns.

I know two families who are very well off relative to ourselves, one family has a merc in the driveway, the other a BMW 5 series and a 7 series.
They both got the grants.

How is this possible?

a 70% increase in fees is simply too much, and I'm not too sure how we're going to afford it.
I'm trying to either get accomdation near the college, or get a car/motorbike so i can go to college and go to my job aswell.
I am not elligible for the grant because i'm inside the radius of the college, by about 2km.
all this year i've had to rely on hitching lifts to college and ringing my mother up to get lifts home - something which is not in our economic intrests.

I for one am mightily píssed off at this.

Fúcking scumbag government jiped all over the people again.

I have nothing but righteous indignation and disrespect for the current government.

leeroybrown

Syxer really hit the nail on the head there ...

The people really getting ass-raped by the Government are those who do not qualify for maintanance but are not wealthy enough to come up with the difference.

Maybe the government as realised that the country is low on unskilled workers (although refugees/imigrants have more than shored up this problem recently) and are trying to create an "unskilled" pool of Irish workers.

Providing a good education to all is the way that Ireland will secure its economic future but hey the government only actually think about what the electorate really need once every 5 years.

po0k

I'm so tired and fed up with this backwards country.
It's only now that w're constructing a halfway decent national road network.
We've sold our telecomms infrastructure for a song and are now butt-fúcked cos foreign companies can't get decent afforadable connectivity in areas outside of dublin, and even when they do order it they're looking at 6 months wait in many cases.
This country is a joke economicly.
Féck-all foresight and an inbred and scandelous political institution.
I'm leaving as soon as I can aford to.
if only to get the christ out of this place for a few years.
To get away from this back-handed, sly wink-wink shíte.

Lemming

Boys and Girls,

its not 600 euro per year in fees .. its a 70% increase on whatever went before.

So, if you were paying IR£275 at the beginningof last september, take that, convert to Euro, then add 70%.

If you were paying IR£450 (or thereabouts in the bigger colleges), do likewise.

SO in reality its gonna be:

(smaller colleges): circa 348 + 243 (70%) = 591

(big colleges): circa 569 + 398 (70%) = 967

Free fees indeed :mad:

Whilst I am finished with my (under-gradate) 3rd level education, I can't help but feel that the government is shafting one of the prime reasons why companies are locating here. Our young, highly educated workforce.

phobos

Originally posted by SyxPak
I'm so tired and fed up with this backwards country.
It's only now that w're constructing a halfway decent national road network.
We've sold our telecomms infrastructure for a song and are now butt-fúcked cos foreign companies can't get decent afforadable connectivity in areas outside of dublin, and even when they do order it they're looking at 6 months wait in many cases.
This country is a joke economicly.
Féck-all foresight and an inbred and scandelous political institution.
I'm leaving as soon as I can aford to.
if only to get the christ out of this place for a few years.
To get away from this back-handed, sly wink-wink shíte.

I couldn't agree with you more.

The fact that you're coming from a single parent family John, and are not entitled to a grant is a joke. But I did hear from somewhere before that if your one of your parents is on a government salary, you won't get it. I can't see reason to that at all :mad:. I come from a single parent family too, and I got the grant through a means test. You cannot survive on the grant alone, especially if you have to pay rent (& other bills), which I did. I had to go working for Dunnes, on crap money. Management in Dunnes were all "Oh we care about your college hours, and future", but if you said you had to take time off to study for exams, you were quickly branded an enemy. It wasn't easy.

I feel sorry for people starting college, TBH. While I was in my final year of my undergraduate degree, I had every intention of going on to do a Masters. The fees for college have gone up, but luckily for me, I expected to have to fork out some lump sums. BTW John, I will be in NUIG next year doing my M.Sc. (I got the offer in the post the other day ). Right now I'm working on getting funds in order for the coming college year.

;-phobos-)

Chico_2002

Originally posted by Stephen
Anyone happen to have an email address for Noel Dempsey so that I may express how fúcking pissed off I am?

Here ya go

email : minister@environ.irlgov.ie
Ph : (046)31146
fax : (046)36646
His lenster house number (01)6183464

Kalina

Bertie and co probably think the tax is acceptable because the grant is going up by 5%! But that's still only around 120 Euro. Pathetic!

Lump

Decided to stick my boot in here..... "Oh for €600 fees..... at the moment, my parents (yes I'm spoilt) pay GB£1075 in fees for me in england....... I cant even get a student grant. And if I could it wouldn't be a grant it would be a student loan to be paid off when I started earning money. Oh well I didn't get the marks to get in to college in Ireland, so I'm glad I had something to fall back on. Wh00t"



John

Stephen

Originally posted by Chico_2002


Here ya go

email : minister@environ.irlgov.ie

I wonder if he (or more likely some lowly muppet who works for him) is going to ever reply to the message I just sent :mad:

Cork

however, I don't think that they're handed out fairly, and that the family status is taken into account.

Why Shold the Rich have their college fees paid for?

It does not even happen in the US.

I'm so tired and fed up with this backwards country.

This is the country that financed your education - you are luckly that you don;t have to pay back loans to the state.

Féck-all foresight and an inbred and scandelous political institution

We are the 13th least corrupt country in the World. Why shoulld students not pay for their education. People are being asked to pay for a small % of the acual cost of providing them with third level education.

How much does it cost to put u thru college?
How much will u pay?

You do not know how lucky u are. I was in college a couple of years ago. I paid fees. I paid for accomadation. Students are not as badly off as they were during the 80s. It think its time free fees are scraped.

When you have to pay 15c for a shopping bag. Why should a certain few get free fees?

Lump

Hmmmm, I presume because it is a human right to have a education.


John

Cork

I presume because it is a human right to have a education

There isw a constitutional right to primary school education.

What % of Irish people go onto third level?

Why should those who don't be compansatuing those who do?

They are many courses in our universitys that are a waste of time and add nothing to our economy.

It is about time - free fees were abolished. The government are right.

Maybe the government as realised that the country is low on unskilled workers (although refugees/imigrants have more than shored up this problem recently) and are trying to create an "unskilled" pool of Irish workers

Maybe our students will not have a problem taking some of these jobs and not relying on the Irish taxpayer for handouts.

zAbbo

As long as there are people like CORK there will always be unskilled workers(and possibly unitelligent), maybe the government should reverse its funding scheme and give people on the dole €65 a week and see how they live.

Ok my rent(which is cheap compaired to other places) is gonna be around €45 a week, Food - €10(the kate moss diet), travel - €10 etc. you can clearly see that €65 is not much and a lot of students struggle.

Now CORK is it justified for you to work and subsidise people who are drawing the dole which is twice the amount that most grant eligible student will get a week.

chernobyl

The reason a college education should be "free" is simple and the state will benefit from it.
How much more tax can the government make from xthousand professionals as opposed to those same ppl working in a factory for enternity.

Personally, without my parents i just could not afford to educate myself...and fuk me, if i was facing into a lifetime of minimum wage jobs..well close encounters of a 12 gauge.

Cork

As long as there are people like CORK there will always be unskilled workers(and possibly unitelligent), maybe the government should reverse its funding scheme and give people on the dole €65 a week and see how they live.

Well - I think that is would be fairer that the government double the maintenace grant and re introduce fees.

This would open up 3rd level education. Why, should I as a tax payer be paying Doctor Ys son Malcolm college fees?

Free fees was ill tought out. Lets open up third level education. Increase thitrd level grants to the same level as FAS & CERT courses. It would be far more equitable.

is it justified for you to work and subsidise people who are drawing the dole which is twice the amount that most grant eligible student will get a week.

Yes - These are out of work - They are often not working by no choice of their own.

How much more tax can the government make from xthousand professionals as opposed to those same ppl working in a factory for enternity.

Point proven:

Why should "

those same ppl working in a factory for enternity

" be subsiding your college fees?

It is your choice to go to college. Why are you expecting the state to pay for you? Do you expect to buy the Irish Times everyday?

po0k

Originally posted by Cork


Why Shold the Rich have their college fees paid for?

I never said the rich should have their college fees paid.
in fact I said the opposite, that with the current situation ppl who honestly could afford to pay it are able to get the grant which is intended for those who might have to scrimp and save to pay it.
There is a certain culture of trying to do people over to increase you own lot, and it is just beneath the surface of Irish society.

It does not even happen in the US.

No it doesn't, they have to pay their fees, and likewise the standard of education you recieve or even whether or not you recieve a 3rd level education depends on how much you can afford to spend.
That, imo, is not right.
It may be very idealist, but I feel everyone should ahve an equal starting block.
Even if it is imposisble to achieve, any step towads that is an improvement.
What the government has done is to reverse that process, hence a negative effect.

This is the country that financed your education - you are luckly that you don;t have to pay back loans to the state.

stfu
When (if?) I get a job after college you can bet you're arse i'll have to pay tax (Ireland being in the top income tax countries in the EU). So don't you dare harp on to us about paying back loans.
My mother has been paying for my education since the day she got her first paycheck, and I shall do the same for my own children.[/quote][/b]

We are the 13th least corrupt country in the World.

Back this up with a link to a recognised authority on the issue.
http://www.myarse.com is not good enough.

Why shoulld students not pay for their education.

Because we can't afford to.
in fact, this year i was working every evening to make money so i could afford to keep going to college.
At the moment I'm trying to save some moeny so I can be over-charged on car insurance so I can get myself to colelge and to work.
This year I ahd to rely on hitching lifts in th morning, the result being that I sometimes missed important lectures.
I live 10miles form the college, there are 2 buses which I *could* get (only in the morning), but that costs money (even with student tickets) and the bus stop is a mile from my home.

People are being asked to pay for a small % of the acual cost of providing them with third level education.

We allready pay for our education through taxation and registration fees and other sundry fees.
College books are extremely expensive when compared to secondary school books.
And colleges have many forms of income, including corporate sponsorships and similar deals and associations, not to mention research grants etc.

How much does it cost to put u thru college?
How much will u pay?

See above

You do not know how lucky u are. I was in college a couple of years ago. I paid fees. I paid for accomadation. Students are not as badly off as they were during the 80s. It think its time free fees are scraped.

It was due to free fees taht this country had enough of an educated young workforce to bring in outside investment and trade. They were a step in the right direction.
The government seems to be shooting itself in the foot.
In orderto reap rewards, it must invest our money back into our futures to earn dividends in the future.

When you have to pay 15c for a shopping bag. Why should a certain few get free fees?

That is a very tangential point and is a poor argument.
The levy on bags is to dissuade people from using them with abandon, because the cost of disposin the waste left from them is enormous, not to mention the negative impact on tourism etc.

po0k

Originally posted by Cork


There isw a constitutional right to primary school education.

What % of Irish people go onto third level?

If it wasn't such a financial burden more would, giving Ireland a more skilled and educated workforce.
Which was generally a good thing alst timeI checked.

Why should those who don't be compansatuing those who do?

Because the option is there. And (again) with an educated workforce it benifits the whole economy and therefore the country as a whole.
Why should any of us pay tax?
I, nor anyone i know, draws the dole, why should I pay my tax if some ofit's going to be spent on social welfare?
because i have a social responsibility to try and make sure everyone in the country gets as good a quality of life as is possible, and quality of life includes education.

They are many courses in our universitys that are a waste of time and add nothing to our economy.

Name 3 sunshine
In fact, name 1.

It is about time - free fees were abolished. The government are right.

No they are not.
Were they right to sell off the local loop into private hands? Why are people campaigning this ver minute to try and get teh governemnt to encourage the company it once owned to introduce something which would be of benefit to a large section of the country?

Maybe our students will not have a problem taking some of these jobs and not relying on the Irish taxpayer for handouts.

The state of affairs being that the majority of students are allready working their way through college, your point holds very little weight in this discussion.

po0k

Originally posted by Cork


Well - I think that is would be fairer that the government double the maintenace grant and re introduce fees.

That's not a bad idea in theory. The first decent thing I've read from you yet. Doubing the grant mightn't cover everything though.
Civil servents (teachers included) are automaticcally excluded from the grant.

This would open up 3rd level education. Why, should I as a tax payer be paying Doctor Ys son Malcolm college fees?

because he's mostlikely paying a shítload more €'s per annum in tax then you are.
And as a result, he is paying his own son's way trhough college, just as his parents did for him.
Just depends on your perspective.

Free fees was ill tought out. Lets open up third level education. Increase thitrd level grants to the same level as FAS & CERT courses. It would be far more equitable.

Where did we get all our engineers, IT specialists, doctors, lawyors, and scientists from?
FÁS courses are class, as are CERT, many Universities ahve "back-doors" into their courses now through such programmes and courses.
Long may they continue.
A valuable asset to the country.

Yes - These are out of work - They are often not working by no choice of their own.

True enough. But in recent times with our economic boom (due primarily to the large pool of educated workers) didn't the unemployemnt drop dramaticly?
But if the FÁS and CERT courses are so accessible, why aren't they in them, improving their skills and job prospects?

Point proven:

Why should " " be subsiding your college fees?

It is your choice to go to college. Why are you expecting the state to pay for you? Do you expect to buy the Irish Times everyday?

Because the majority of people in Ireland would like to see their children go on to 3rd level education.
If we to pay fees it would create an imbalance, and people would inevitably be kept out by financial concerns, whether there was grant or not - and there's always going to sectors excluded from such things - beuracracy being what it is.
From my viewpoint the fees are managed like a national Co-Op, everyone pays their bit, and if they choose to go for 3rd level, they can without having to stump up for a large sum.
The points system is wrong imo, to base an assesment of someone's abilities on a few written examinations is ludricous.
It makes everything more flexible and better tbh.

Stephen

Well said, Syxpak.

Cork: you sir, are an idiot.