Intelligent Metal

Karl Hungus

I've just recently got my hands on Monumension by Enslaved... Them being one of the originator's of the whole Viking Metal scene, I didn't really have much intrest in them before, but I got this album because it's meant to be a rather prog rock album, and seeing as I've quite a fancy for the likes of Opeth and suchlike.

It sounds like a Black Metal Pink Floyd.
A very dark and heavy Pink Floyd, though.

But I thought I'd start a topic about intelligent metal, and see if anyone else shares any similar tastes. Bands such as Opeth being the obvious ones... Emperor, Akercocke and Ephel Duath also, and probably even Tool.

Now, I'm not talking about intelligent lyrics, but the music itself. Music that takes all kinds of twists, goes from deep and dark to soft and mellow and back around again, where there's many different things happening at the one time, and you're trying to keep track of it all. Songs that go on for 15 minutes and have you in awe at the intelligence of the songwriting. Songs that build up slowly over time and display some amazing melody, switching and changing between tempo's and rythems...

And has anyone noticed how it's usually Black Metal bands that have the balls to do this kind of thing? With the exception of Tool, Dream Theater and the like... It always seems to be the BM bands who really experiment about. Anyone's who's listened to the Thorns album knows what a wierd, unpredictible and original peice of work it is. Or Ulver, doing an entire concept album based on William Blake's 'The Marriage Of Heaven And Hell'... Talk about ****ing deep! But I'm not really on about lyrics, so I'm not going to dwell on that. Or how about Arctusus? La Masquerade Infernal is such a complex symphonic and operatic peice of Progressive Black Metal. The same goes for Peccatum, Winds, Samael and Source Of Tide. It's truly amazing stuff.

But what I find the most astounding is how a music genre that's barely around 10 years has evolved and expanded so quickly. Epecially seening how raw it all began with the likes of Mayhem.

Perhaps I'm just letting my mind wander at 6:30 in the morning?
But there's food for thought if anyone's interested in reading my mumblings.

Ruaidhri

mumblings? b'ah!

yes I’ve an avid interest in GOOD intelligent metal, although I usually find it's death metal. ya know it's technical death metal, with really goods lyrics and exceptional musicianship. Like CYNIC, martyr, Quo Vadis and Theory in Practice.

Theory in Practice have an album called Armageddon theories, which is about how religion brings about the destruction of humanity (from religious zealots) each song is narrated closer to the destruction of humanity, and after there is another intelligent race on earth that find out the follies of us, and end up destroying themselves from religion. and the music is *very* technical

there is also the flip side of this coin...the really stoopid metal(yes I’m looking at cannibal corpse etc for this one) with the whole I’m going to kill you approach(don’t get me wrong I listen to them, but their song writing leaves some to be desired)

Pugsley

Id have to go with Dream Theatre, some very origional stuff in there.....
And they played the simpson theme tune in the middle of 'Change of Seasons' !!! They also had that hockey goal thing on a bass guitar, and a good old tavern music from the wild west on the piano

Karl Hungus

I can't say I really like Quo Vadis and the like... They usually just seem to be ripping off the Swedish bands. No offence.

I don't know, I've heard quite a lot of the stuff from John, and I can't say I like it all. In fact there's very few Death Metal bands I actualy like. Vader, Lock Up, Nile, The Crown, Death, and that's about it.

But John's more into the Cannibal Corpse and Pig Destroyer side of Death Metal, so there's still probably a lot I've not heard. Can't really listen to Cryptopsy either.


But I'm really talking about how technical the music is in that regaurds. As someone once said, you can train a monkey to be like Steve Vai.
More to the side that it sounds intelligent, rather than just playing as many notes as you can. Where a song might build up, and then suddenly change and do something else, and you'd just go "Whoa!". If you get my meaning.

Now, I'm not saying that the bands you're mentioning are crap... Far from it! I'm sure there very enjoyable, but I just don't like that kind of thing. Just, is there anything amazingly experimental in them? I mean, stuff like the new Enslaved album, or the new Emperor is really ****ing wierd and going off in all kinds of new directions.

I'll have to get a listen of Theory In Practice at some stage.
But, from what you're describing of the lyrics, it's pretty similar to that of Zyklon. And anti-religious lyrics are hardly anything new? I mean, BM bands have been doing that from the start.

Giblet

Extremely technical music can be so boring and self absorbed. No matter what people say, Steve Vai can not write a song that doesn't sound like a practice is modes and scales. Led Zeppelin, now theres a band, none of this Learning how to play Guitar stuff

Ruaidhri

probably should have the opposite of a sig that says "WARNING: DEATH METAL MENTIONED INSIDE"! yeah I know most ppl are NOT into death, but there are some real gems once you crack off the outside shell(cannibal corpse etc). that and I’m a bit of an elitist when it comes to music.

And anti-religious lyrics are hardly anything new? I mean, BM bands have been doing that from the start.

it's not exactly anti-religion, there is none of the "we hate Jesus" in it, it’s more an attack on society and blindness, but that's enough of that for now.

I think the core of your post Angelwhore is that there is a huge dearth of intelligence in metal, and it gets ignored and blown off because of the beavis and butthead stereotype metaller (ya know smelly, brain-dead etc) but the likes of Opeth keep everyone trying to define metal(well Angelwhore said they are black, I mostly see them as death, but I’ve seen them classed as doom). they cross so many musical styles and do it so naturally and with so much style,it's a pity they are still relatively unknown

I can't say I really like Quo Vadis and the like...

I don’t know, quo vadis have a very natural way of writing songs, they feel right in a strange kind of way(but then again see my first paragraph ) but then again i'm straying off topic: there is a dearth of extremely good music out there, in death(which i can comment on) and the more extreme/darker sides of metal,and it;s very obscure

we should make a sticky of the *really* good bands out there(and of course their genres)

Can't really listen to Cryptopsy either.

cant blame you,they are VERY harsh on the ears,but amazing once you get into the little nuances of the music

It always seems to be the BM bands who really experiment about

i kind of agree with you on this one(from what i've heard of black)but i listen to a metric butt load of death, and still find such Varity here...and I’m wandering again
ah yes:there is a **** lot of really good bands out there:but it's all personal taste. if i've step on anyone's toes,well sorry

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Ruaidhri
probably should have the opposite of a sig that says "WARNING: DEATH METAL MENTIONED INSIDE"! yeah I know most ppl are NOT into death, but there are some real gems once you crack off the outside shell(cannibal corpse etc). that and I’m a bit of an elitist when it comes to music.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't hate all Death Metal.
Just most of it.

it's not exactly anti-religion, there is none of the "we hate Jesus" in it, it’s more an attack on society and blindness, but that's enough of that for now.

I think the core of your post Angelwhore is that there is a huge dearth of intelligence in metal, and it gets ignored and blown off because of the beavis and butthead stereotype metaller (ya know smelly, brain-dead etc) but the likes of Opeth keep everyone trying to define metal(well Angelwhore said they are black, I mostly see them as death, but I’ve seen them classed as doom). they cross so many musical styles and do it so naturally and with so much style,it's a pity they are still relatively unknown

Yes, that is a point. There is a very idiotic steriotype of the typical Metalhead, and of Metal as being very stupid. I think this is ridiculous, but there is still a lot of kids like Beavis and Butthead that keep up the idea of the "Stupid Metalhead".

Some very intelligent bands do get blown off and ignored. I remember a conversation with a friend of mine just a week ago, when I was asking him if he'd listened to Anathema. Now this guy is a big Alternative DJ, and runs numerous club nights here in Galway. He said yeah, but they weren't his thing, that they were too Glam. Now, if you've seen what Anathema look like, they're anything but glam... Pants and shirts, just pretty normal looking guys.

I asked him what the hell he meant by glam, and he told me, ah, you know "You know, it's all so image based." To which I responded "Ok then, what do they look like?" And you know what he tells me? "Well, I don't mean them in particular, but like all that stuff in general, it's all so image based."

People are in general quite ignorant.

I don’t know, quo vadis have a very natural way of writing songs, they feel right in a strange kind of way(but then again see my first paragraph ) but then again i'm straying off topic: there is a dearth of extremely good music out there, in death(which i can comment on) and the more extreme/darker sides of metal,and it;s very obscure

we should make a sticky of the *really* good bands out there(and of course their genres)

I don't think a sticky of bands it a good idea, people either listen to them on reconmendations or not, but I'm not going to put up something like that. Too nazi like. "Listen to these bands before posting!"

i kind of agree with you on this one(from what i've heard of black)but i listen to a metric butt load of death, and still find such Varity here...and I’m wandering again
ah yes:there is a **** lot of really good bands out there:but it's all personal taste. if i've step on anyone's toes,well sorry

Don't worry about stepping on anyone's toes... This is a board for discussion, and you've not gone flaming, or anything of the sort.

I'm sure there's plenty of Variety in Death, I mean both In Flames and Gorotted manage to be called Death Metal, and sound absolutely nothing alike.

Pugsley

I mean both In Flames and Gorotted manage to be called Death Metal

This has puzzled me for a while, because to be classified death metal dont you have to make some reference to death? The only MILDLY death related thing is 'episode 666' and that isnt all that 'death' either. Who classifies this stuff?


Also,i havent heard system of a down mentioned, they arent the black or death metal that yous are currently discussing, but some of their music is quite origional. And despite what most of you think of them, slipknot have some very origional and hard hitting songs aswell (their seems to be a bit of an attitude that 'slipknot are cretins and they suck,ignore them at all costs' ).


As for the DJ guy not liking bands who appeal by image, most DJ type guys I've heard of seem to care about looking good as opposed to playing good music (never liked any of that dance stuff myself) so i agree, he must be very ignorant to comment on metal like that, pot calling the kettle black i think.

Karl Hungus

Well, In Flames are "Melodic Death" along with Dark Tranquility, and At The Gates.

And let me put it this way...
If you haven't heard something mentioned - MENTION IT!
This isn't a one sided arguement here.
But I'm not exactly talking about being original.
More music depth and intelligence.

Ruaidhri

This has puzzled me for a while, because to be classified death metal dont you have to make some reference to death? The only MILDLY death related thing is 'episode 666' and that isnt all that 'death' either. Who classifies this stuff?

it's not a definitive classification:it's more of a guide to what to expect from the band music wise.i mean if everyone went around calling Opeth death only or Black it'd be kinda confising(well they dont fit any genre properly)

deco

What about "My Dying Bride"?

That band have some serious things going on in their music...

A mix between classical composition and the metal ehos...

I think the major reason that metal bands...espically black metal....get to experiment more because they don't have to worry as much about marketing their records....in a sense the black metal scene is based on pushing out the envelope so it is going to attract a more artistic following rather than indie rock....

Dyr

how come nobodies mentioned voivod yet??

what is WRONG with you people

don't remember hearing queensryche being mentioned either.

deco

Chill Bambi...chill....

everything will get mentioned in its own good time...:D

Dustaz

Originally posted by AngelWhore

As someone once said, you can train a monkey to be like Steve Vai.

a GREAT man said it.
Nice to see you have some capacity to learn anyway