I really dont like eircom very much.

popinfresh

Now I'm no financial expert..But what could Eircom be gaining by charging what they are for ADSL?? there are always going to get some hardcore intrenet users who'll buckle under the pressure and hand out the money, but there's not a chance in hell the average Tom Dick and Harry is going to fork out é90 a month for slightly faster porn. I specifically remember this time last year talking to several people who didn't know anything about computers. But they seemed optimistic about getting ADSL (when I told him it was going to be about é40 a month).But when eircom announced their tarrifs, they (and me) decided that eircom could go and shove their DSL up their arse. é30-é40 is what they should be charging. Surely if they dropped their prices down to about that, they'd make up for their losses with more people signing up. And with things as they are, should anybody offer an alternative to ADSL, I'm gonna piss on my next Eircom bill and disconnect. Even if they drop their prices, I'm gonna disconnect just outta spite..

damnyanks

I'd say thats pretty much the same opinion as most of us here

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by popinfresh
Surely if they dropped their prices down to about that, they'd make up for their losses with more people signing up.

Yeah, I made the same point on this forum before as well. At the time I used the analogy of the old Soviet Union's way of doing things, i.e. they used to always put their eggs in one basket and build one great big factory producing cars, clothes, and other goods rather than several smaller ones. However, if that one big factory burned down or something, they would be royally screwed. At least with several smaller factories, if anything happened to one at least they'd have others to continue the work and take up the slack.

It seems to me, as I stated on that other thread at the time, that Eircom seem to be thinking along the same lines as the Soviets, i.e. get a handful of cutomers at a large price. They really should have gone with the other option of a lower price and attract a whole ton of customers. In fact, just like the Soviet technique of the "one big factory", Eircom's policy of going for a large price has backfired completely as recent figures show that less than 1000 users have signed up for Eircom's ADSL service, and a significant amount of those are trialists who got bitten by the ADSL bug during the trials and couldn't face going back to 56K dial-up and signed up for the over-priced ADSL service anyway. I'm sure Eircom knew that a higher price would mean less customers but they sure as hell didn't think it would be this low (perhaps they thought we were all stupid enough to pay for ADSL at any cost but, I'm sorry Eircom, we're not!). As a result, they are really going to struggle to recoup all the money they say they spent in rolling out DSL if the numbers remain so low.

All they had to do was look across at the UK to see that lower prices encourage a larger take-up of DSL. However, as per usual, Eircom just can't see what is blantantly obvious to everybody else and, as a result, Eircom's ADSL will end up a complete failure unless they drop their prices significantly and quickly.

ando

Eircom are greedy Retarts

I found that out when I got my first Isdn bill :eek:

Canadian

Eircom is a company who's ONLY responsibility is to its shareholders. They don't owe US a damn thing.

If OPEL wanted to sell Astras at €100,000 that would be entirely up to them. Not greedy, just not competitive. They would go bankrupt tho as no one would buy their offerings...

HANG ON - We don't have a choice! There is only ONE telecom company here.... so it's not just a COMPANY, it's a PUBLIC UTILITY.

WAIT - that was Telecom Eiriann, not Eircom.

So what we have here is a PUBLIC ASSET which has been GIVEN to PRIVATE INVESTORS which goes UNGREGULATED and EXTORTS CITIZENS who have NO CHOICE.

I call that Communism. Comrad Bertie at the helm.

Why would the Irish Goverment allow this to happen? Only for personal gain.

The stench of corruption is everywhere.

MrPudding

Firstly let me state that I am not a supporter of €ircon. What would happen if dsl was really cheap? There would be massive take up of the service. Can the network infrastructure take it? I think we have to give serious consideration to the idea that the price may be high because they are scared of humiliating themselves. Imagine the embarrassment if there entire network fell over because of DSL demand. Don’t get me wrong they are greedy tossers but I think there may be more to it.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by MrPudding
Firstly let me state that I am not a supporter of €ircon. What would happen if dsl was really cheap? There would be massive take up of the service. Can the network infrastructure take it?

I would imagine so. There's a vast amount of underused fibre in the ground, particularly in the Dublin area. DSL enables the home user to connect with this. There is no shortage of infrastructure, but access to this infrastructure is being limited.

LoBo

Originally posted by Canadian
Eircom is a company who's ONLY responsibility is to its shareholders. They don't owe US a damn thing.

If OPEL wanted to sell Astras at €100,000 that would be entirely up to them. Not greedy, just not competitive. They would go bankrupt tho as no one would buy their offerings...

HANG ON - We don't have a choice! There is only ONE telecom company here.... so it's not just a COMPANY, it's a PUBLIC UTILITY.

WAIT - that was Telecom Eiriann, not Eircom.

So what we have here is a PUBLIC ASSET which has been GIVEN to PRIVATE INVESTORS which goes UNGREGULATED and EXTORTS CITIZENS who have NO CHOICE.

Well said. I completely agree with the above.

BoneCollector

In short! (just read my tagline )

seamus

Well, the 'sell loads at less' is a common good practice thing in business. The guy who owns Ryanair (forget his name), said he would 'rather sell 100 seats on a plane at £10 each, than 10 seats at £100 each'. What's the difference here? He's still making the same amount of money isn't he? No. More people on board = more stuff sold on board, and more customers likely to come back. It's obviously worked for him, just look at Ryanair now.

If eircom lowered their prices for ADSL now, they would make even more on winbacks and line rental. But then of course it's eircom. Prudence and good business practice are forbidden words in their halls :rolleyes:.

tHE vAGGABOND

So what we have here is a PUBLIC ASSET which has been GIVEN to PRIVATE INVESTORS which goes UNGREGULATED and EXTORTS CITIZENS who have NO CHOICE.

rofl

You should be on stage

Kix

Originally posted by Canadian
I call that Communism. Comrad Bertie at the helm.

Well you shouldn't, because it isn't anything like communism. At all.

K

Canadian

Yeah - a few minutes after that rant I did realize that myself. True communism is very different.

I shall rephrase.... "The current situation reminds me of several Totalitarian regimes which keep the public poor and stupid, while reaping the rewards for the elite few".

Perhaps "African Dictatorship" is a better phrase-

Apologies to closet political scientists everywhere.

Fallschirmjager

the ryanair comparison says it for me...

dahamsta

I shall rephrase.... "The current situation reminds me of several Totalitarian regimes which keep the public poor and stupid, while reaping the rewards for the elite few". Perhaps "African Dictatorship" is a better phrase-

Africa? Sounds like Home Sweet Home to me. Now, where's my Charvais shirt...

adam

l3rian

good post Canadian

Fallschirmjager

LOL love the shirts...but hey how about this


BEN, thanks big fella...



at least we outed that MFker

Ste-

Originally posted by MrPudding
€ircon

says it all really dosnt it.

surprized they havent changed the logo yet.....

Hannibal_12

This is well worn ground indeed. Most of this has been said before and nothing ever seems to change.€ircon have no responsibilty to the public at large only to their investors(Sad but true). 1000 DSL connections is probably where it will remain for the foreseeable future. Its depressing really when you think of the possibilities that an always on high speed connection can provide and how it enhances the overall net experience. Its especially sad when you look at other European countries and compare them to the disgrace we have here.
As was said before also the reason €ircon may not be lowering DSL is because people would abandon dial-up and perhaps their per minute robbery is just too lucrative too give up.?

Lemming

We should change the title of this thread to "EirCom are greedy, MYOPIC retards".

They rang yesterday, trying to get my mum interested in "Hi-Speed". She duly told them that she'd pass them onto me.

Basically the whole conversation went someting like this

Rep: "have you ever considered getting hi-speed internet access"

me: "yes. I've looked at ADSL"

Rep: "How did trhat work out?"

me: "The pricing is OBSCENE considering the service restrictions (ie. the cap) and until those issues are addressed I will be staying away from it like the plague. if another company offers it befoire you, i will not hesitate in removing my business from your company"

Rep: "havbe you considered Hi-S...."

me: "No. It's too expensive, out of date and only marginally faster then dialup at 64kb"

Rep: "oh .. ok"

Me: "BUT in the mean-time I would be VERy interested in flat-rate dial-up"

At this mention she seemed to sit up and take notice. She did admit that she was only there to try and sell me ISDN though.

FFS... talk about trying to flog a dead-horse. At no point did she attempt to mention the fact that in order to use 128kb you are using TWO phonelines at once. ... grrrrrrrr

Fallschirmjager

Sorry Hannibal, but i just dont agree. I think the view Eircon has of Ireland and a lot of people is still marred by a deep insecurity. Someone just explain why in Ireland ony 1000 people will want it. THis is one of the biggest computer capitals in the world. Im in one for the last 17 years FCS! Now lets not be shy or coy or embarassed and say they are jobs going to India, or somewhere else...lets just admit that we have a **** load of IT jobs here. (And this doesnt not count the other people who want it ..--read the other thread about farmers in wales maoning about not access). If it is only 1000 people then Now are we honestly saying that the boom in IT jobs is down to 1000 people...if thats the case i want my taxes reduced -- and **** the rest of ye -- cos it is down to 999 people and me...the celtic TIGER IS MINE AL MINE MUMUMUHAHAHAHAH!!!

Ok agreed it isnt down to that or just me ..it is down to us all from all over the country which is why it pissed me off that everyone just cares if DUBLIN in online -- the should not be the case-- and that is not anti Dublin -- we need somone with a broader image then that. This economy (as i have said a lot here before) is down to IT companies and IT skills and these people will buy this product if given the opportunity...but we are denied this..will it explode as money makeing for eircon -- no -- but no business ever does -- you have to build it and then they will come --

now i want to know is why i cant access the web at 500K or higher at a reasonable price-- oh thats it, because some aresehole in Dublin in Eircon has decided that it is is lossleader..WHY -- where is the proof...if it is such a loss leader why was Eshat free dial so oversubscribed..OK so it does not make money but that is because they have their economic scales incorrect and are not efficiently running their business -- IT IS NOT TO DO WITH LACK OF SUBSCRIBER INTEREST...

Now, please we are an independent state, lets drop the FAMINE victim ****e and lets get on with it...WE JUST NEED SOMEONE WITH BALLS TO SELL IT ..


also name one hardline (i.e. landline) telco company that will be here in 10 years if they do not adopt this market -- companies can not hold the past -- ONLY GO FORWARD...by eircon holding on to 1.25 cent per minute is a recipe for disaster...


NOW WHOS WITH ME...LETS GO...


rant officially over...

Slutmonkey57b

The point about ?ircon's floatation is well made, however the vital point about the difference between Ireland and the UK experience is being missed:

The privatisation model used was copied from the UK, but it did NOT have the backing of political pressure and a strong regulator. BT did exactly what ?ircon do for as long as they could get away with it, but eventually enough pressure was put on politicians by users and competitors for the politicians to put pressure on the regulator which had to cave in and FORCE the local loop to be unbundled.
Result: Cheap ADSL/dialup for all.

You want low cost access and access to the loop? Put pressure on the politicians to change it, is the way the system is supposed to work. The problem is that the politicians here will NEVER do what's good for the public. As long as proportional representation guarantees opposition parties power without actual effort, or even votes, then where's the incentive to listen to the public?

WhiteWashMan

what do you propose that eircom do?

you cant stop them from trying to make money.

what solution would you put forward to make using their service more enjoyable for you?

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
you cant stop them from trying to make money.

Agreed. And when there's little to no competition, any company will do their best to make as much as they can out of the situation. Whatever the rights or wrongs might be.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

you cant stop them from trying to make money.

Surely Esat could...if they'd take their thumb out...

dahamsta

Two words boys and girls: Social. Responsibility. We're not in a Bond movie, we're in the Real World[TM].

adam

Dustaz

Originally posted by dahamsta
Two words boys and girls: Social. Responsibility. We're not in a Bond movie, we're in the Real World[TM].

adam

Ah now come on adam, Social Responsibility and Corporate Policy? please.

Occidental

Eircom are exactly the same as Aer Lingus before the advent of Ryanair. A lazy bloated company with an ethos of maximum profit for minimum effort. Low cost ADSL would incur lots of effort, for a possible slight increase in profit. Far better to introduce high cost ADSL, muddy the waters and carry on milking people for a few more years.

Adam,

Social. Responsibility.

I'd say even the Eircom lackeys pissed themselves when they read that

dahamsta

They may find it funny, but they're the guys who'll be first against the wall. Like I said, this is the Real World; eventually, it's going to catch up to them. Eventually, I'm going to catch up to them.

No Logo

adam

Occidental

But do you really think they give a damn. Do you believe that the management of Eircom actually have any interest in the future of Telecoms in Ireland or indeed anywhere else. They are sitting on a pile of property and infrastructure, a pile of cash and a pile of reluctant but captive customers. All they have to do for the next few years is hold the market where it is and not bleed too much profitible business. Then when the global telecoms market recovers they can flog it for a fortune and someone else can drag the company back to reality. I’d love to be proved wrong, but I firmly believe that the current owners of Eircom spotted a bargain and that they are on a damage limitation exercise until Telecoms stocks come back into fashion.

If you’ve got a different view on this I’d love to hear it (not taking the piss).

dahamsta

But do you really think they give a damn.

Nope. But they'll learn someday.

adam