BB3 : Keane v McCarthy. You decide

Pigman

Well this week Roy Keane said something along the lines that he would consider coming back to the team if McCarthy wasn't there.

Forget all the egos rows and personal problems it could cause. Who would you honestly rather have in the Irish set-up?

KdjaCL

Screw him.



He isnt the 1st player to have problems with their manager just irelands most high profile.

kdja

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Helix

mccarthy

we play better as a unit without keane, and the younger lads dont have to worry bout him any more... you cant have players in a creative sport affraid to express themselves on the pitch creatively for fear of a bollocking or worse from a senior player. good riddance i say

Johnny_the_fox

Keane is a stubborn Fathead.......

BKtje

fathead?
that is very descriptive to why you dont like him

Tellox

Thats a toughie.
Roy plays a great game, but he lowers the morale of the whole team..

McCarthy is one of the top 6 managers in the world imho, Although he did some stupid things, like encourage the lads to go on regular piss-ups.

Its a bloody shame they cant work things out, both are needed for the euro '04

Xterminator

Personally i think there are a number of people who could do micks job better.

Joe Kinnear, Dave O' Leary, or Brian Kerr all spring to mind.

But can you honestly say anyone can do what keano does on the pitch?
All this ****e about bad morale, before Keano went home, I never heard anyone say anything but good about the morale of the players. And that was with Keane on board! In fact it was one of our strengths.

I do think he could patch things up with the teammates.

X

Winters

Keane is too big headed.
The team seemed to play better without him as there was more spirit with them ... hope he never playes again! Gowan Mick!

Sand

Despite my deep seated doubts over Roy Keanes alleged ability to play football at the highest level and his supposed ability to lead by example in the most demanding of arenas such as Man United 3-2 victory over Juventus away which clearly had nothing to do with the so called legendary skipper Keane, and Irelands huge supply of world class midfielders, chained to their truly inspirational manager, Mick McCarthy - in high demand by first division clubs everywhere - Id have to go, reluctantly with Keanos reinstatement ( Sure to spark a civil war and walk out in Irelands football squad ) and McCarthys sacking - sure to alert a host of top clubs such as Real Madrid, Man United, Roma and nations like Brazil looking for the sort of quality McCarhty possesses.

Greenbean

Sand that post seriously needs some fullstops or comma's; I can't quiet make out what it is you are saying. If you are suggesting that the 3-2 win away to Juventus had little to do with Keane then I suggest you don't take up football scouting as a day job. If not, then I've been unable to descipher the sarcasim.

Tizlox:
"Roy plays a great game, but he lowers the morale of the whole team.."
We don't actually know what the case is with moral now, after the whole fiasco; all I know is in the qualifiers before the world cup the last thing Roy Keane did was lower moral. I sincerely believe he was a major driving force behind our qualification - worth more than just 1 player on the pitch, due to his abilities and his on-the-field influence over his team-mates and the opposing team. This is something he can still do and will do regularly at club level.

I would accept that if Roy had come back after being sent home from the world-cup that this would have created a demoralising situation where the manager would have looked very weakened -clearly taking on a person who he wanted out; creating a demoralising situation. Ireland have always performed exceptionally well at the big events, they always do us proud - but even more-so at this world-cup given the circumstances. Now that we are going back into the deary drudgery of a qualifying campaign for the euro championships are we would need to figure out who our driving forces will be.

At the end of the day, all politics aside, on what I reckon would be the best footballing setup, I think a new manager brought in and Roy Keane in the middle of the field playing in a green jersey is more likely to yield results over the next couple of years. Ideally I would rather the two had never had such a problem with each other because McCarthy deserves much credit due which isn't been given to him now by half the country over this mess. If the choice has to be made, its marginal, but well, I think Roy Keane is more important to winning than McCarthy is.

Michael Collins

McCarthy....I'd love to see Keane back though. but I think he made his mind up when he simply refused to play for this country when all he had to do was say sorry for shouting at Mick or whatever...he could still have made his case about the training ground

But anyways I think the team proved that Keane isn't all that essential for us to do well

kamobe

I think we could have gone further if he was there....
Dont see him missing in a penno shoot-out. However, McCarthy has to stay, he's done a lot. And if Keane wont play under McCarthy - that's his decision. We'll definately miss him....

Interesting that the poll is currently 50:50. Seems to be the opinion of the country in general

gandalf

Well Royos latest outburst just proves that he should never play for Ireland again let alone be let anywhere near the captains position.

McCarthy is not the best manager in the world and I have my doubts about him but it would be against my principles to let that premadonna from Cork to return to the irish team the way he turned his back on the Irish supporters at the World Cup.

Let Colin Healy have a chance to establish himself, he looks like he can appriciate the wearing of the green. Leave Keane to rot in Moneychester United.

Gandalf.

m0o|Dino

how can clinton morrison be irish ?

btw who gives a fcuk about keane

cournioni

I definately think that McCarthy should have ****ed off back to Yorkshire where he belongs. He is the most overrated manager in the world at the moment. I think if Roy Keane had to be playing in the world cup, we would have went on to at least the semi-finals. Thats my personal opinion. I think Brian Kerr (even though I dislike his extreme boreability) could get us to the World Cup finals if he was given the chance. Instead we're stuck with an overrated manager and without the best midfielder in the world.

It's interesting to see all the ABU's saying that Keane should stay out of the Ireland squad. Well let me tell you something, if he went to Birmingham City he'd lead them up into the Champions League places by the end of the season. Thats how much he means to Manchester United. Now **** off.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
. I think if Roy Keane had to be playing in the world cup, we would have went on to at least the semi-finals.

We could have even won it, if Roy Keane was in the squad....but the Stubborn Fathead walked away......

Roy Keane can now f*ck off back to Manchester and walk his dog.......

cournioni

Originally posted by Johnny_the_fox
but the Stubborn Fathead walked away......

Eh... I believe the big nose kicked him out of the squad because Keane made McCarthy cry... WAH WAH!

McCarthy wasn't looking to kick him out of the squad because he was damaging the team's morale. It was because McCarthy is a selfish git who wanted to take revenge on Keane. Then as a result Ireland get knocked out in the second round by Spain.

Oh great look we got three draws and a win against Saudi Arabia (Whoopdefukingdoo!!). WOW that really win you the world cup! I think Ireland underachieved in the World Cup cos of McCarthy.

Ronan|Raven

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Well let me tell you something, if he went to Birmingham City he'd lead them up into the Champions League places by the end of the season.

What are you raving about?!:rolleyes:

Samba

I think many of these comments are very hypocritical and childish.

He turned his back on the Irish fans eh; so now the fans turn their backs on him.... grow up please.


Many people are raving on about this magnificent squad we have and that we can play very well without Roy keane, this is true from the performance we saw in the world cup.

Fact is many of our players out played themselves in the WC i.e. Breen.

Nobody seems to remember what went on in many of these matches, terrible passing, giving the ball away very cheaply and having our defence ripped open like a sardine can by the silliest of mistakes.

While the defensive errors lie at the back, the terrible passing in mid-field certainly would not have been going on with Roy keanes Presence on the pitch. (Of course they played some nice football, just not consistent)

I would like to see Roy Keane play for Ireland because we are a much tighter outfit in general with him on the team.

As for McCarthy he did a good job fair play, but he was the one who made the first mistake, which sparked off this whole incident.

This of course was the calling of the meeting about Kean which was discussed in front of the whole team, Mick knows Roy's mentality and should of known (or possibly knew) that Keane was going to blow).

McCarthy and Keane never got along from day one, this was never going to change and never will change, the only friction which affects the team is the friction between Mick and keane which in return does no favours for the teams moral.

Im sure many of the young players on the team would also be very grateful to have his experience back on the team.

gandalf

Samba what team do you support, I sense a hint of red

The only person who was childish and hypocritical was Roy Keane. He was suppost to be the captain and as captain he should control his world famous temper and think of the the team instead he went all primadonna and ran off like a spoilt brat and then when the opportunity arose to go back and play he choose the selfish route and sulked.

Maybe the other players in the team raised themselves to another level because they knew he wasn't there, to rescue or bully them !

As I said he has had his chance. If McCarthy goes tommorrow Keane still should not be allowed back to play.

Gandalf.

Samba

heh,

Im not saying


Yes he had the chance to go back and it even looked as if he was going to come back, do you remember that little press conference with Niall Quinn, where he stated that the team had discussed the matter and that they had decided they did not want him back.

Primaddona or not, he is human and statements such as those are going to hurt(esp coming from what are supposed to be your "team m8's", if memory serves me right that conference was held on the morning of the Keane interview.

Where it finally became clear he wasn't going back

I feel that this was strongly related to his final decision not to return

SheroN

I'd rather see keane involved in the irish set-up that mc carthy. But honestly why he'd want to come back and represent such a gang of complainy, back stabbing ****ers with incredibly short memories escapes me.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
...without the best midfielder in the world.

[Aside]
Unfortunately I don't think Zidane is elligible to play for Ireland.
[/Aside]

If Keane had of gone aff like that at Sir Alex he would have been sent packing and it's only right that the same thing happen when he doesn't do it for his country, after all the boss is the boss. Two options, eat humble pie and return to wearing the green that he professes to love so much, or shut up whining. The FAI have given their backing to the manager and a contract that may well see him managing well past Keane's shelf life.

Samba

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish



If Keane had of gone aff like that at Sir Alex he would have been sent packing and it's only right that the same thing happen when he doesn't do it for his country, after all the boss is the boss. Two options, eat humble pie and return to wearing the green that he professes to love so much, or shut up whining

I certainly would not wish to return to a team who did not want you there.

But I agree with part of what you are saying, the boss is the boss, in keanes eyes Mick and the FAI are a bunch of Jokers(mind you this is partially true).

I do not believe for one minute that Keane every respected Mick the way he should have.

cournioni

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish


[Aside]
Unfortunately I don't think Zidane is elligible to play for Ireland.
[/Aside]

Zidane isn't the complete midfielder that Roy Keane is. Yes he has flair, yes he scores goals, but he doesn't tackle back as much as Keane does.

Ping Chow Chi

even people wearing biggest set of rose tinted glasses (or is that manU red tinted )must see zidane is the better midfielder.
Though I would put keane in the top half a dozen or so.

Ireland would be stronger with keane playing and getting on well with his fellow players and with macarthy there. Unfortunatly they do not seem to be able to settle things like grown adults. The latest 'Im not playing if hes still there' the latest example.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER

Zidane isn't the complete midfielder that Roy Keane is. Yes he has flair, yes he scores goals......

yes he turned Keane inside out, making Keane (rather stupidly) foul him and miss the champions league final....

cournioni

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish


yes he turned Keane inside out, making Keane (rather stupidly) foul him and miss the champions league final....

So who got the Man Of The Match then? I bvelieve it was Keane am I right. Youre judging him by one challenge. I don't suppose you remember Keane scoring a vital goal in that match either. Where was Zidane then?

Thanx 4 The Fish

But his hot-headedness, which has gotten him into trouble before, made him miss out on the chance to play in the champions league final. The same hot-headedness which made him miss out on the world cup finals this year. While there is no doubt that he is a quality midfielder and would be up there with the best in the world, he is definitely not the all round footballer that Zidane is.

Samba

This thread is not about who is the better mid-fielder lads.....

They both play two completely differenct styles of football which imho you cannot compare.

cournioni

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
But his hot-headedness, which has gotten him into trouble before, made him miss out on the chance to play in the champions league final.

Sorry this is off topic I know but again comparing Keane to Zidane. Do you not remember Zidane being sent off in the World Cup finals for stamping on a player in the early stages of the 98 tournament?

OK, point made... continue with the Keane vs. McCarthy arguement.

Thanx 4 The Fish

This is on the Keane vs Mc Carthy argument, I amn't saying that Zidane isn't hot headed. I am saying that Keane is hot headed, He lost it when he was criticized by his manager and (rightly) got sent home.

I would love to have him playing for Ireland as even though he definitely not the best midfielder in the world, he is the best that we have got. Unfortunately as long as Mc Carthy is at the reins he hasn't got a chance, especially since his most recent ill conceived rant. If ever there was a chance to play again, going to the press and saying he won't play for Ireland under Mc Carthy ruined that for him.

Sposs

McCarthy....I'd love to see Keane back though. but I think he made his mind up when he simply refused to play for this country when all he had to do was say sorry for shouting at Mick or whatever

Mc Carthy didnt just want Keane to Apologise,he wanted to humilate him why else would he bring to whole squad including physio kit man etc into a room and then demand that Keane get up in front of them all and apologise.

Mc Carthy is a buffoon and a second rate manager.

Long Live Keane!!!!!!!

Thanx 4 The Fish

There was no humiliation involved, or at least there would not have been if Keane had not gone to the press and instead called Mick, had a chat and sorted it out like men instead of kids in the schoolyard. He prob. would still be playing for Ireland and people would recognize him as a bigger man for it.

It doesn't matter if Mick is a second third or fourth rate manager, he is still the manager. How are people supposed to take Keane's claims of a lack of professionalism within the FAI seriously, when he exhibits a blatant disregard for that professionalism himself !!!

Sposs

Keane was merely trying to improve conditions for him and the rest of the players,it is his job as team captain to do this,all former internationals agreed with Keane because he was right.

If it wasnt for Keane after all big players like Richard Dunne,Shay Given and Gary breen would still be cattled into economy class sections on long distance flights.

Keane's not trying to improve the FAI for himself, he'll be too old to enjoy the benefits when and if they ever improve,he's doing it now so that our future internationals can challege on the international stage and not be the happy go lucky losers that we always end up as.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I haven't disagreed with what Keane was trying to do, just with his methods. Do you not think that if he had of brought these issues up, like he did before about the seating on flights, that they would be resolved without as much fallout. As for "all former internationals agreed with Keane because he was right." Where do you get your information from ? Am sure that while alot of former Irish internationals agree with the issues brought up by Keane, I would be fairly confident that they do not agree with the method employed to get them across.

Bateman

Keep McCarthy.