Religion

joe the coat

i suppose im as qualified as anyone else (i have an uncontrolable social conciunse) and as you just saw i cant spell. but id probaly annoy to many people even for me to deal withor find amusing.

article6

Weren't the Gospels written by guys who lived about 1,950 years ago and such?

Sorry Joe Coat, but you don't cut it, unless you're an ancient Hebrew immortality project. Hmmmm. Ridiculous... or is it.

joe the coat

the gospels were written by anyone who wanted to! there were probaly loads! but only a few survived... so i could write one. and blake wanted to write the gospel according to lucifer/milton (it varyied. he was nuts)

Talliesin

Originally posted by wiensta
Buddhism is not a religion.

I've heard and/or read Buddhists say that Buddhism isn't a religion, Heathens that Heathenism isn't a religion, Wiccans that Wicca isn't a religion, Druids that Druidry isn't a religion, Muslims that Islam isn't a religion, Christians that Christianity isn't a religion, Hindus that Hinduism isn't a religion.

I think the only faith that I've looked into at all where I haven't heard or read such a claim is Voodoun. Maybe this is because there's more rhetorical value in their saying that it is, given that in the West there are still a lot of people whose concept of Voodoun is based on racist 1950s zombie movies. More likely lots of practitioners have said exactly that, but I just haven't come across them because I haven't looked into Voodoun much.

The problem is that "religion" isn't very well defined. There's practically a boilerplate piece of text at the beginning of any objective study of a religion which points out that the term isn't very well defined, and (optionally passing briefly on the etymology of the word, and how little insight it reveals) states how it is going to use the term, without claiming it is any sort of normative definition.

All statements of the type "XXX isn't a religion" are giving a definition of "religion", generally one that the practitioner doesn't approve of, and then in defining XXX as not being an example of it (or "real" XXX, or their form of XXX) they distance it from whatever negativity they have just attached to the word "religion".

Really this isn't of much use, especially if everyone is going to do the same thing. I think it's only really fruitful to say that all of the above are religions, and to define religion as a word which is the superset of all of the above.

nosmo

But a nice post nonetheless.

Talliesin

Originally posted by nosmo

D'oh. Found that post while searching for something else, didn't check the date.

nosmo

Always nice to have visitors..

shep the malevolent pixie

i simply believe that whatever you think will happen to you after you die WILL happen to you. that way, none of the religions in the world can be deemed as wrong and everything's happy.

i plan to figure out the rest of my beliefs this summer, it has needed to be done for a long time.

sHep :cool:

ww)

lordsippa

Wow... I saw this thread, went "WTF?", looked at date, breathed a sigh of relief and read. Turns out I must've been away from my beloved puter for a while when this thread died cause there's replies I should've made.

On the note of Satanism, Milton's views were coloured by not only his own vision of Hell, but also by church preaching. Considering the churches version of Satan is pretty much the definitive version, then my point is valid. Unless you want to argue that their version is wrong. In which case stop calling it Satanism. DAMMIT! Also, it wasn't because of Jesus that Satan hated man <according to Milton that is>. It was because man, lesser in stature to angels, were given free will, whereas the fallen Satan had been stripped of the name Lucifer and banished to Hell for seeking it.

As for the wearing of the poncho... Aye. 'Twas me.

Oh and Talliesin, nice of you to drop by.

SOL

Faith is the easy way to put your mind at rest when you can't answer its questions, the only alternatives are insanity or ignorance, which is somewhat similar to faith IMO.

I on the other hand, enjoy reading all these texts about angels and various "occult" stuff, my most recent find was www.chaosmagic.com lots of pdf books

lordsippa

Originally posted by SOL
Faith is the easy way to put your mind at rest when you can't answer its questions, the only alternatives are insanity or ignorance, which is somewhat similar to faith IMO.

Which one? Insanity or ignorance?

Zukustious

Originally posted by lordsippa
First off, I nearly became an atheist but I am not. The reason... I found that my constant strive to find some definite logic behind a higher being inconquerable. It struck me that if I was to continue searching I couldn't justify questioning the existance of something I didn't believe in. So I just decided "well why the hell isn't there?" and accepted that I believe there is something. Not saying there is, just that I feel there is. <god I am a weirdo eh?>

A similar change happened to me. I was an aethiest. Taking the world as reality but, then I thought (Inspired by the matrix) how the hell do I know what reality is? How do I know I exist? I've decided that anything is possible to me, but it's just unlikely for me to see it. I'm no longer an aethiest, I believe in nothing. There's nothing to prove God is real, but there's nothing to disprove it.

My favourite religion would have to be Buddhism. The most wise (to me) of all religions. They have respect for other religions and allow you to believe what you believe, and they'll have nothing against you for it. The Dalai Láma rules. If I had to chose one religious path, this would be it.

Sev

1. You cannot define god, or set out a list of absolute truths about the nature of existance, how it came to be, why it is and how it will be.. because you could never prove it.

2. Therefore, any guidelines that religions follow, are ultimately man made, and stem entirely from the opinion, suggestion or imagination of men. Men make their religion.

The only argument that could negate the first two points, is if one was to accept and believe the writings of the gospel, the old testament, and the written foundations of most world religions that might state that such guidelines were handed down to man from the higher power it/him/herself.

Otherwise one is simply fooling themselves if they can definitely conclude either way. And for the reasons 1 and 2 above, trying to debate the matter is ultimately pointless. The only explanation that I can provide, for what most would call God, is merely the reasoning behind existance itself, on a level beyond my understanding.

I am forced to detach myself from the reality that people just accept and take for granted, and question the fundamental obviousness of existance.. to think for a minute about the nature of the world and realise that there is no apparent reason why we should exist at all, no apparent reason why we should perceive and act in three spacial dimensions, no apparent reason why the laws of physics should be so and why we should experience the mystery of consciousness... but its all around us, you are alive and reading this thread, and nobody could ever begin to explain why. Some take comfort in accrediting all this they see around them to a high power, that they call God. I can only attribute these mysteries to what I could never even begin to comprehend.
That is my God, the axiomatically inexplicable.

purplepolkadot

first of all, i mean no offence to anybody.
and most of this was probably said before but i on;y read some of the first page

i don't believe there's an afterlife. i think that when you die you're dead. full stop. no reincarnation. diddly squat. and everyone says to me that when someone close to me dies then i'll changed my mind yaddah yaddah yaddah. it happened. several times. i haven't changed my mind.

similarly i don't believe humans (or animals or fish or sheep for that matter) have souls. i think people have consciences and maybe monkeys and stuff do to but that's it. and i count our morals (those of us who have any) as sort of part of our conscience.

i don't believe in a higher force, god or anything else. and it doesn't bother me. i'm not uncomfortable with it. i was baptised got communion and confirmation (much to my dismay that last one) AND i was made go to a convent school. but i don't upset the nuns cos they're in their seventies an it's not hurting me to sit in the gym for mass and in the oratory for confessions a couple of times a year.

i think a lot of us teenagers don't go to mass and don't like catholicism cos it's hip or something. some people in my school think they're **** hot when they tell harmless devoted women of pension age that they don't believe in god. when they do. and they pray when something goes wrong. AHA. and those people who have favourite religions that they don't practise but hey they seem cool. hmmm.

i have no qualms with religious or non-religious people i respect them all equally.

'cept i think that maybe people wrote down things to be wrong or explained things away in the bible. things like homosexuality, or how the world was created, and why little kiddies should be good, cos jesus loves them man. i'm sure plenty of other religions do that too but i'm not read up enough on them to say. except there's an american book called What's the Difference? which shows that with the exception of buddism and hinduism (which have similarities) all religions are pat the baker's. (ie they were all made in the same factory but are packages differently at different prices). so now.

lordsippa

Actually... Sev, the one exception to your rule 2 <although I don't know how much of a religion this is, or if it's just more a philosophy> is zen. Zen is an inexplicable guiding force that leads you through life and hence, through being at one with zen, one will know the best way to live ones life... well... not so much know but just will live ones life in the best way possible. Unfortunately, we're all aware of how impossible it is to gain any headway into understanding zen. But it's a nice concept and one I can't help but enjoy entertaining. It fits so nicely.

freakofnature

waaaaaaay back the religion JC was mentioned. I'm forced into doing religiuos Education for the JC and i despise it. No really, i absoltuely cannot stand it. I've asked my parents for an exemption but i have failed in that area. I was brought up nonreligious, was not baptised or attended church and because of this, i have been treated with contempt by my religion teacher.

The other day, we were learning about original sin, which i knew nothing about and i read in my book that those who are not baptised have their judgement clouded and are insincere people. Thank you department of education, I love learning off by heart (which i have been told to do for my exams) that i am an immoral human being with serious problems because nobody threw water on me as a baby.

Myself and a friend have written a strong worded letter to a national newspaper on this topic because we ware sick of being treated as 2nd class citizens becuase of our religion.

ps, i have no problem with religion aslong as it is not forceddown my throat.

lordsippa

How about writing a letter of complaint to the Department of Education and whatever equality board has been set up and complain about the degrading manner in which your particular belief system has been treated in their course. I don't know how you'd go about it, but I'm certain there are regulatory bodies in operation <something to do with the new equality laws that were introduced recently enough>.

Anyway, good luck with fu<king the system up.

Scarinae

Was it the Irish Times that you wrote to? I don't actually know who you are, but I saw a letter on the yesterday's letters page and I'm wondering if that was you or if it was another pissed off student. Does everybody have to do Religion as a subject or is it optional? I would heartily agree with you there on the point of original sin, but then again I have never been raised as a Catholic - I went to a Protestant primary school - and to be quite honest I am puzzled by the concept of it. Why are babies evil? Can someone explain that to me?
My parents have never forced me into a particular religion, they are different religions themselves in fact. We have Quaker meetings in our house every month and I can attend if I want. My parents think that religion should be a personal thing and that if I want a religion I can choose one, but if I am happy without one that is fine.
By the way, I don't think the Northern Ireland thing is a religious war. The Irish, predominantly Catholic, were living in Ireland. The English, predominantly Protestant, plant people in Ireland and kick the Irish off their land. It is a war about territory, but because the two warring peoples are mainly of different religions it is known as a religious war.

Green Hand Guy

I didn't have to do religion on the JC and I think it's crap that they're introducing it. I personally think it's the kind of exam they should be trying to remove, not add in.

Personally I'm an atheist and my religion teacher in 2nd and 3rd year was a total dick. He constantly told me how much of an empty person I must be and why he was so great. He also told the class about the time Jesus appeared to him in a park and why we should beware of asians. These are the kind of nutjobs they allow to become teachers. We had a presentation thing for the end of 4th year last week and this teacher who I will name now as Mr. Conor Ryan of St. Pauls College, Raheny (it sickens me to have the same first name as this bigot) got up and made a speech about how The Matrix is isolating teenagers from the outside world. And this man is meant to be a teacher!

Zukustious

Originally posted by Green Hand Guy


Personally I'm an atheist and my religion teacher in 2nd and 3rd year was a total dick. He constantly told me how much of an empty person I must be and why he was so great. He also told the class about the time Jesus appeared to him in a park and why we should beware of asians. These are the kind of nutjobs they allow to become teachers. We had a presentation thing for the end of 4th year last week and this teacher who I will name now as Mr. Conor Ryan of St. Pauls College, Raheny (it sickens me to have the same first name as this bigot) got up and made a speech about how The Matrix is isolating teenagers from the outside world. And this man is meant to be a teacher!

That sucks. Having a religion teacher like that and all. I was lucky. My religion teacher was extremely open minded about all religions. However she still had to teach us Christianity, even though we would have benefited much more from Buddhism.

Green Hand Guy

My latest religion teacher was a big improvement. He didn't even teach us about christianity. We talked about World War 2 and the Middle East and stuff like that. I think that's more the kind of thing you should learn in a religion class.

Scarinae

Hmmm, I don't think they should have teachers like that teaching religion. Do they really expect that 'scaring' you into a religion will make you be proud of being a part of it?
My school is multi-denominational so we spent first year doing conflict theory and mediation, then we learned Bible stories in second and third year. This year we watch videos like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by Green Hand Guy
I didn't have to do religion on the JC and I think it's crap that they're introducing it. I personally think it's the kind of exam they should be trying to remove, not add in.

Personally I'm an atheist and my religion teacher in 2nd and 3rd year was a total dick. He constantly told me how much of an empty person I must be and why he was so great. He also told the class about the time Jesus appeared to him in a park and why we should beware of asians. These are the kind of nutjobs they allow to become teachers. We had a presentation thing for the end of 4th year last week and this teacher who I will name now as Mr. Conor Ryan of St. Pauls College, Raheny (it sickens me to have the same first name as this bigot) got up and made a speech about how The Matrix is isolating teenagers from the outside world. And this man is meant to be a teacher!

I't a good thing that that bigot doesn't know how to use computers, or he'd sue you.[blackmail]I could tell his son, though [/blackmail]

Green Hand Guy

Go ahead, tell him. And make sure he knows that Conor Lynch posted it. He can only sue me if the allegations are false. Plus he probably thinks court is for satanists anyway.

Kay

Three weeks ago, I discovered that I'm able to dowse for (carcinogenic) geopathic radiation lines. Yes, with coat-hangers. There's simply no accounting for the things we can do that we don't even know about for most of our lives. Of course, some people's mantra is "parapsychology, darlings!" but there's a point after which the mind's distinction from much, much stronger and stranger things becomes so blurred that scientizing it makes it not a jot less strange. And people in the know, like Professor Vilanor Ramachandran, the funky Indian neurologist who did the Reith lectures on Radio Four this year, dismiss parapsychology as a foolish exploit anyway.

Sev, whoever you are, I like your train of thought. Hope your God gets more personable as time goes on.

The thought of students having to do Religion as a Junior Cert exam subject is a bit strange, especially in the curriculum's present form. And when you bring people like Green Hand Guy's Mr. Ryan into the equation it becomes severely dodgy. So good work with the letter-writing, I think I saw that letter too (if that was you).

article6

Uhhh... yes. Uranium in the water supply and all that. I getcha.

Thinking about it now... what a weird idea to have Religion as a subject for an exam. I don't see how it's legal, and besides, I've always learned a lot more about Christianity from that man in the dog collar who likes talking every Sunday than from well-meaning English teachers.

Heck, at the moment, I'm desperate finishing off Biology, Accounting, and the like. Imagine religion in Leaving Cert...

"What's the meaning of life?" (It's 42, even though I was never one of the bath-robe wearers on Thursdays. Does that count as a religion? But I digress.)
or maybe
"How thin is a Communion wafer?"

Oh gosh, but it's late, I'd better start cramming for the short questions. Which is Samsara and which is Nirvana again...

Happy CTYI guy

Originally posted by article6
I was never one of the bath-robe wearers on Thursdays.

Some people have all the luck.

Asuka

The whole thing is pretty funny, really, when you think about it.

A

Scarinae

I object to that, 42 is not the MEANING of life, it is the answer to the great question of Life, the Universe and Everything

article6

Originally posted by Fishie
I object to that, 42 is not the MEANING of life, it is the answer to blah blah blah yakedy shmakedy

And you were one of the bathrobe-wearers on Thursdays weren't you.

Anyway, other than that, I have nothing new to add at this point. God bless.

SOL

Too right, thats nonsense 7 is the meaning of life, and someone thought it would be funny to multiply by 6

Scarinae

I never wore dressing gowns on Thursdays actually, I just like reading. By the way I like your Feathers McGraw avatar