Moderators be more strict

Mark_irl

Can I suggest that the moderators here hold back posts that claim certain services are about to be launched/announced on a certain date, untill after that date and not post them if the said service is not launched or announced. This would add a certain amount of credibility too the board. this is in light of the whole Beam solutions sham and the "Possible dublin Broadband " post claiming a new website will be launched on august 1st.

stormkeeper

the problem with doing that is anyone who isn't informed about any of this won't know about it. if the mods were to 'zap' the 'claims', the forum here would be very empty, since a lot of posts here are about services that may be coming.

dahamsta

Errah, as long as there's a few of us around to point out that people like Braxton are spouting, we'll be ok.

adam

Xian

On the topic of moderation and re "Eircom are greedy Retarts.." remaining open, maybe a re-read of the Info & Rules would be timely:

Although it may seem so to many, the forum is not specifically an arena for bashing the likes of eircom or other companies or authorities just for the sake of it. This is a discussion forum, not a propoganda page. Any such unconstructive message threads which go in such a direction will be removed without discussion. Complaints about these deletions will not be entertained.

The discussion may be valid on the whole but the thread title and comments like "because some aresehole in Dublin in Eircon has decided that it is is lossleader..WHY -- where is the proof...if it is such a loss leader why was Eshat free dial so oversubscribed.." isn't doing us any favours.

Bard

Well said Xian! Good point! Here here! (etc.)


- Bard

(- the ex IOFFL Mod who wrote that rule.)

Dustaz

Weh, were not strict enough?? thats unpossible!!!
Im sure sceptre will have something to say on the matter, but heres my view.

The beam thread annoyed me more than anyone, but there was no false claims in it afair. In fact I seem to remember posters that have been around longer pointing out the vapourware aspect to the whole beam scenario.

MarkIrl, if you had read the possible dublin broadband thread, you would see that noone claims a website would be in place on august the first. The chairman of Ioffl at the time said he hoped to see a website in place around the start of august, and the usual suspects took this too literally and cried when it didnt appear.

This forum wouldnt be what it is without rumourmongering, and usually the rumours come from decent sources. For example, the current Leap deal was reported here months ago. If i was to moderate everything in that regard, as someone said, we would be left with some valid tech threads and not much else.

On to the Eircom rants. I wholehartedly agree, My first instinct was to delete that thread straight away, but it seemed to contain some fair points that were indeed discussed. I still wanted to mod/edit it but thought it might be unfair to do so.


Anyway, What do people think? I certainly have it in me to be far stricter if thats what people want and i know sceptre has his Acme "Fist'o'Steel" ready to roll, but this forum has always been driven by the memberships opinions. What say ye?

kamobe

I (humbly) reckon most things on this board are okay. Can't stop ppl posting rumours, unless they're consistently taking the piss....

No need to get TOO strict and stopping ppl moaning, us frustrated dial-up folk need to vent our anger somewhere. Better here then out on the streets :P

Leave be, ie. No Blatant, baseless Eircom bashing.
But reasonable complaining

Bard

ah the moderation on the forum is grand... you guys do a good job...

just some things may need to be nipped in the bud earlier... the subject line of that "eircom are retards" thread for example

It may be best to stick relatively rigidly with the rules that have been laid down and spank those who step out of line... but to do this even handedly and not go over the top with it... - that's the tricky part I guess.

Snowbat

Originally posted by Bard
just some things may need to be nipped in the bud earlier...

No they don't.

You are doing a good job Dustaz.

BoneCollector

This board is about information:
it does not matter if a claim is true or false
what does matter is that the claim is made known so we can act on it.

Classic example
the Errcom banner that claims! ADSL is "flat rate"
What did that false claim get us..

Result:
the advertising standards where persued in this matter and is currently pending a decission.

I personaly object to moderator making decissions on what is true or false. Let people make up there OWN! minds
GAWD! next freedom of speech will be taken away tooo!?

BTW Mark_irl i notice you have a total of 15 posts.. WOW! making demands Already?

Bard

Being allowed to say "Eircom are retards" isn't just a freedom of speech issue, however. A perfectly valid argument may have been put forward there, granted... but it could have been put forward in a much better way.

spongebob

I have no problem with being 'moderated' as and when the moderators choose. Simply knowing they are there keeps most on topic or thereabouts.

The moderators in here have it judged nicely....gwan moderators.

When they do nip there is never any arguing about it, or so I have noticed.

As a counter to the 'possible service' thread that Mark complained about I started an 'actual service' thread by way of contrast. Thats how BBS type services work.

M

Fallschirmjager

Xian,
that comment which was dutyifully cut, was from me and originally i was a bit embarassed until i reread THE WHOE ARTICLE i wrote.

My view (MY) is that The purpose of the boards is -- we can put our views...that is mine...and only mine -- if you dont agree -- then that is your right and one i will fight for, but i expect the same courtesy back. Please dont cut a paragraph from a whole page of comments on where adsl is going in Ireland and use it condemn us all.

What we need in Ireland is free comment and expression, not some formalised, sterlised, politically correct view that gets us nowhere. Yes i use language -- IM IRISH for christs sake! thats what we do. If it is too much for your ears then i apologise unreservidely BUT please no censorship...we have just come out in ireland from that era, and lets not go back. As for the moderation -- i thinks its fair and is not as easy as it looks and you always have the right to reply. If we are asking people to become the censor to simplify and PCify the views here -- i dont agree and too be honest it will just drive the responses somewhere else.

As for becoming a force for change, I vote every 4 years for that and pay for it every month just like you no doubt-- what these board can do is drive awareness and force us away from the old view of Irleand of comely maidens at the crossroads...to the technology advancement we desperately need...

on another note, which is worse -- a telco for all of ireland that has the audacity to stand up and say that there are only 1000 people in ireland who really want adsl or me suggesting that the person who said that was an arsehole...i let you decide

Yes yes, eircom never said that but the implication and message they have sent to us all by saying only 1000 people have shown interest (All of us in Ireland) is that we are not educated enough to want this...i not only dont agree, i am so unbelievably against this viewpoint that i consider anyone who is running a business for TELECOMMUNICATION IN IRELAND AND IS THE DOMINANT PLAYER that can say something like this is a fool and an indication of why eircon is in such a state.

So please, lets just try and change the situation so we can get to where we need to be. We are all looking for a solution. As for banning the treads..i say NO. Mark Braxton has made a complete fool of himself here for all to see. Suppose you did not login here..you would hear how his company is doing this and that and the other (incidentally just like eircon) -- but it is just air usage he is stealing from someone who can deliver a solution. If he delivers i say -- good luck to him but lets see whats and offer and who lives up to the promises...So far he get nil points from me...

Canadian

This forum is a great balance between information and unbridaled anger.

On Information - it's not a FAQ for broadband in Ireland, it's the leading edge of discussion. The leading edge wouldn't be leading if vapourware wasn't included. People who want to find out exactly whats available should read the Eircom website... if they can stand it.

And it makes everyone feel better to vent once in a while, or to read that there are a lot of others who feel exactly the same way. We all need a support group.

Keep up the good work-

Fallschirmjager

Oh and one final thing.

the only warning i got to date that i remember was that i have my game image at the bottom of my emails. 20K in size if i recall

20 K...20

it had to be removed becuase people were slow downloading

i think it there is an indictment here we should focus on the fact that 20K is causing these boards a problem in people reading them-- reading, let me reiterate -- reading information to gain knowledge...because eircon believe we dont need it...

now who is offending whos rights here..this is a democracy the last time i checked unless ye all took a vote when i was asleep last night LOL...If eircon dont want for business reason to rollout ADSL then FINE let someone else do it...the problem is they wont do that..they deny us access and they deny other companies access...now tell me the usage of the word A~~~hole is bad..

MDR

I think its fair to say I learned my lesson with Beam ...
I agree completely with Xian ...

MDR

the problem is they wont do that..they deny us access and they deny other companies access...now tell me the usage of the word A~~~hole is bad..

The usage of the word A~~~hole is bad, I ask you to consider for a moment that Esat is also rolling out ADSL in Eircom exchanges without issue, how much are they charging ?

To be honest its not enough to call Eircom A~~~holes, if IrelandOffline is to succeed it has to change attidutes in Government towards telecoms, change atttidutes Telecoms towards Residential Users and change attitudes amoung Residential Users towards Government and Telecoms.

Eircom is a big a problem, sure no arguement here but Eircom is not the only big problem. It does not further our cause any to alienate the very people who we are trying to sell this change in attitude to ...

You might say that what is written on these boards isn't relevant, they prolly never see it so how could it alienate them, but I am afraid its very relevant, the boards are read all the time by peeps in the organisations I am talking about.

sceptre

Originally posted by Dustaz
The beam thread annoyed me more than anyone, but there was no false claims in it afair. In fact I seem to remember posters that have been around longer pointing out the vapourware aspect to the whole beam scenario.
.
.
This forum wouldnt be what it is without rumourmongering, and usually the rumours come from decent sources. For example, the current Leap deal was reported here months ago. If i was to moderate everything in that regard, as someone said, we would be left with some valid tech threads and not much else.

On a personal level I'd agree with this, even if the only reason was to keep the membership aware of possible (or actual) alternatives to the incumbents - it's something I'd believe the membership actively wish to be kept informed of. There is a case that could be made that such threads shouldn't be allowed (on the basis of their being a shade away from commercial advertising) - but while DeVore allows it and people are actually interested in it, I wouldn't make the decision to dump such threads wholesale unless it was something most people felt strongly about. The other thing is that if a product is announced by a company and the product turns out to be nothing other than an IBM Josephson Junction, more people are aware of the timewasting techniques that company employs.

On to the Eircom rants. I wholehartedly agree, My first instinct was to delete that thread straight away, but it seemed to contain some fair points that were indeed discussed. I still wanted to mod/edit it but thought it might be unfair to do so.

Exactly the same reason. I had my finger twitched both to delete the thread and change the title initially - based on the posts that came out of the thread I decided to let it be. I think the title change that Dustaz has made is perfectly satisfactory (again keeping in mind that the thread itself, as you read through it seems fine) but if anyone has any opinions I'd be happy to hear them.

Originally posted by MDR
To be honest its not enough to call Eircom A~~~holes, if IrelandOffline is to succeed it has to change attidutes in Government towards telecoms, change atttidutes Telecoms towards Residential Users and change attitudes amoung Residential Users towards Government and Telecoms.

Don't think any of us would disagree with that

Originally posted by Dustaz
Anyway, What do people think? I certainly have it in me to be far stricter if thats what people want and i know sceptre has his Acme "Fist'o'Steel" ready to roll, but this forum has always been driven by the memberships opinions. What say ye?

It's important for people to remember that this is a membership forum for IrelandOffline. Essentially, this is your forum. Dustaz and myself moderate it on your behalf, not on our own. The rules and regulations are laid out for all to see and where possible we do our best to make sure people keep to them. Neither of us is above criticism - especially as we're working on your behalf. And (hoping it doesn't sound condescending), thanks for all the comments to date (and any that come after I post this). I'm always happy to hear suggestions/comments/whatever form people who are reading and/or contributing to the forum, whether such comments are about the forum in general, behaviour on the forum, general suggestions and so on, whether they're made as part of a posting on the boards, an email or a PM.

The patented "Fist'O'Steel" can be brought out if people wish. In general I think the mix of information, rumourmongering and general complaint is going relatively well at the moment but if most people feel a change of policy is in order, then a change of policy is in order.

Xian

I will not reply to any point in particluar other than to say:

If you feel the need to "vent frustration" take up ju-jitsu, hurling, whatever. Failing that, go to the "Personal Issues" board to pick on someone.

If all else fails, try to intersperse your spleen with posts like fabien's to earn the right to rant. Ranting alone gets nobody anywhere.

And if, as a last resort, a rant is inevitable, you do know there is a "Preview Reply" button next to the "Submit Reply" button. Maybe you should use it so that you don't get embarrassed the next time you are quoted.

I, for one, am keen for a tighter rein on the forum. Of late the noise-to-information ratio has been such as to make it nearly unreadable.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by dahamsta
Errah, as long as there's a few of us around to point out that people like Braxton are spouting, we'll be ok.

adam

Ehhh...
You mean Hank Scorpio...right!?

Gordon

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
A~~~hole is bad..

Does that stand for ADSLhole?!

dahamsta

You mean Hank Scorpio...right!?

I'd nominate that for a Boards Award if I thought more than three people would get it! Good stuff 80p!

adam

MDR

If all else fails, try to intersperse your spleen with posts like fabien's to earn the right to rant. Ranting alone gets nobody anywhere.

I am with Xian, tighter controls would be best in the long run. Peeps should be still able to rant, just more abstractily ...:D

alastair

and what IS a retart?

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by dahamsta
You mean Hank Scorpio...right!?

I'd nominate that for a Boards Award if I thought more than three people would get it! Good stuff 80p!

adam

It can be the IrelandOFFline Committee Mailing List[*] Topic of the Year. Twas a classic alright
Gawd you'd think Mark/Hank would have a given up with the evangelism at this stage!!




*First Annual

MrPudding

Originally posted by dahamsta
You mean Hank Scorpio...right!?

I'd nominate that for a Boards Award if I thought more than three people would get it! Good stuff 80p!

adam

Homers too good to be true boss.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Sorry also to respond to the topic...

I think Lee and Seamus are doing a grand job as Mods.
Thats not diminishing the job Niall and Adam did. They were dealing with muppetry the likes of which I haven't seen anywhere on boards and only in a few other places on the net, and dealt with it admirably.

Most of the time, the gratuitous bash Eircom topics get few responses and should just be locked if adding nothing to the debate...simple as that. The key is the rest of us should not feed these trolls by responding and should just let the threads die a death.
Other than that, prolly could merge a few more threads like repeated topics such as, "When is Galway getting ADSL?" and the likes, but you're doing good work, So keep it Up

dahamsta

Peeps should be still able to rant, just more abstractily

You mean like:

EIRCUN AREN'T RETARTS!

Doesn't get more abstract than that, I reckon.

adam

MDR

Doesn't get more abstract than that, I reckon

Something more along the lines of

"In my opinion the Incumbant Operator is incompetent".

Dustaz

Originally posted by Xian

I, for one, am keen for a tighter rein on the forum. Of late the noise-to-information ratio has been such as to make it nearly unreadable.

Ive ruminating on the whole issue for the past few days (while taking a little time off from the forum:) ) and ive come to agree with me auld pal Xian.
I still stand by what i posted earlier in the thread, but the amount of ranting in posts is getting a bit much.

A few PMs might be going out, but in the mean time, lets think before we rant folks , huh?:)

Xian

Originally posted by Dustaz
ive come to agree with me auld pal Xian.

Attaboy, Dusty.